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Stormie1126

THOSE players...

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Those players to whom, more than ANYTHING else, winning is absolutely everything.

(You thought this was gonna be another rant about potatoes, dint'cha? :Smile-_tongue:)

I had a match tonight where for once over the past three days, the team didn't lemming and there was some decent coordination. I forget the map, but it was a Standard battle, and this one guy, let's just call him Winner for the sake of ease, started off by calling for us to just stick close to base, and made a good point about how in these battles, he who defends the base best, usually wins. Battle progresses, the Reds get too spread out and we pick em off till there's 3 or 4 low health ships defending their base. At that point our team starts moving in for the kills, because there's 7 min left and why wouldn't you go for the extra kills/damage instead of waiting for the timer for a points win? At this point Winner starts chastising us for leaving the base, and it turns into an argument about winning being everything, with him making a comment about how we're throwing the match (idk how the hell he could think that, since we were up by 500 points and had only lost 3 ships O_o). But when I start saying sure winning is nice, but it's not mandatory for having fun so long as it's not a blowout, he starts throwing (relatively non toxic, for once) insults at me and the rest of the team, who are backing me up (all the while he's ALSO going towards Red base to get more damage, so....:Smile_teethhappy:).

Sure, by all means, do your best, try for the win, but if you literally can't have fun if you don't win, regardless of how well you and your team played? Methinks you need a therapist. While being on potato teams match after match, which guarantee no one does well, isn't fun for 99% of people...it is still just a game, mate. Relax.

Just glad that for once it wasn't toxic [edited] spew like it usually is.

Edit: Oooh, a "bad" reaction with no comment. Did I trigger one of you 'WINNING IS ALL' guys?:Smile_teethhappy:

Edited by Stormie1126
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20 minutes ago, Stormie1126 said:

idk how the hell he could think that

I've been in far too many games where being reckless for damage turned a guaranteed close win into a heartbreakingly close loss. I reckon your "Winner" has probably been in even more, and is thoroughly sick of seeing team-mates snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. I have to sympathise with the viewpoint, even if they sometimes don't have the best attitude in game.,

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7 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

I've been in far too many games where being reckless for damage turned a guaranteed close win into a heartbreakingly close loss. I reckon your "Winner" has probably been in even more, and is thoroughly sick of seeing team-mates snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. I have to sympathise with the viewpoint, even if they sometimes don't have the best attitude in game.,

Fair point, but given the circumstances-8 nearly full health greens against at most 4 reds with 30% or below-there was literally no way we could have lost, especially since our team had displayed decent skill the whole match. Sort of a 'read the room' situation, y'know?

Edited by Stormie1126
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I can understand that players want to win since that is often what you want out of war games like this. But for me personally I do not mind a loss if my team genuinely tried their best and both teams fought well. Just in my chess games, if I face a a worthy opponent and we both played very well, then win, lose, or draw I am content with the results.

Only time I feel a little annoyed is if my team spent much of the match fighting each other or else refuse to even fight at all right from the start even if we could easily win a flank with their assistance.

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My blood pressure does rise slightly when you are winning with points and near the end your almost dead teammate decides it is a good idea to keep on fighting causing the loss. 

During ranked I play with an AED attached ;p

Edited by LemonadeWarrior
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1 minute ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

I can understand that players want to win since that is often what you want out of war games like this. But for me personally I do not mind a loss if my team genuinely tried their best and both teams fought well. Just in my chess games, if I face a a worthy opponent and we both played very well, then win, lose, or draw I am content with the results.

Only time I feel a little annoyed is if my team spent much of the match fighting each other or else refuse to even fight at all right from the start even if we could easily win a flank with their assistance.

Exactly. I'm even dissatisfied with a win if the enemy team is 'total potato' and we steamroll them. It's just like 'Yeah, yay, wooo, a win....'

I'd much rather have a match where the teams are evenly skilled and it's a close game for the majority or right down to the last few seconds/ships. You feel like you actually accomplished something then, if you win, and if you lose, it's "Augh, SO close, but everyone still did great and fought hard!"

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There is no such thing is having fun on a losing team. Or not caring if you lose because you had 150k damage, a kracken, high caliber, and confederate. Playing exceptionally well on a team that still loses is especially frustrating. Vince Lombardi said it best, "Winning isn't everything. It's the ONLY thing."

Now calling people out for bad strategy WHILE you are doing the same thing is bad form. If you leave the CAP while everyone is pushing into the enemy base that is on ou. I lost a match for my team doing that once. I was in a division with Komrade Rylo, he saw the situation developing on the map before I did and told me to cover the cap. Like an idiot, I was farming damage. Our cap got captured and I was literally 3 seconds too late to resetting the cap. Playing the objective should be everyone's first priority over personal stats. The people who have fun in a loss or feel good because they played well in a loss, I suspect they won quite a few participation trophies in their youth.

17 minutes ago, Stormie1126 said:

Fair point, but given the circumstances-8 nearly full health greens against at most 4 reds with 30% or below-there was literally no way we could have lost, especially since our team had displayed decent skill the whole match. Sort of a 'read the room' situation, y'know?

That match I described was a one-sided blow out on our part, we had a six-ship advantage until the enemy DD got into our cap. We had no business losing that game but our team INCLUDING me played foolishly and gave the game away.

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12 minutes ago, Stormie1126 said:

the circumstances-8 nearly full health greens against at most 4 reds with 30% or below

Okay, the bit in bold changes things. Most of the throws I've seen have been wounded greens who went out to fight better ships than they were. Remember too that detonations and devastating strikes do happen, and can change the situation in an instant. I've been caught up in surviving and solo capping, and looked up to find that my entire team has melted and the enemy battleship I should have been able to farm has no opposition and can devote the concentration needed to find me in my smoke and shoot me there.

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13 hours ago, Belthorian said:

There is no such thing is having fun on a losing team.

Bull. [edited]. The fact that people like Admiral_Thrawn_1, myself, and plenty of others I've seen here on the forums echo the same sentiments put lie to this.

13 hours ago, Belthorian said:

The people who have fun in a loss or feel good because they played well in a loss, I suspect they won quite a few participation trophies in their youth.

Or maybe we just have respect for a decent opponent and enjoy good competition, regardless of the outcome? I certainly got no participation awards as a kid, hell, the thing I did (Quarter Midgets-look it up), I was exceptionally good at. Consistently placed in the top 3, if not first, the entire 10 years I did it, Rookie of the Year when I first started, set speed records at my home tracks, one of which went unbroken until YEARS after I stopped doing it, so many trophies I literally ran out of space to put them in, hell I even got featured in a goddamn magazine.

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People like you are the reason this thread was made.

Edited by Stormie1126
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If you are incapable of deriving pleasure from this game from doing well personally (playing the objective, spotting, capping, defending, supporting the DD, etc.) because of the actions of 11 (or 9) strangers, you will grow to hate this game.

Holding random people accountable for your enjoyment is a road to madness.

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2 hours ago, Stormie1126 said:

Fair point, but given the circumstances-8 nearly full health greens against at most 4 reds with 30% or below-there was literally no way we could have lost, especially since our team had displayed decent skill the whole match. Sort of a 'read the room' situation, y'know?

I have on multiple occasions managed to pull a win or watched a team lose by sneaking onto the enemy cap, or a last minute hero finally able to engage once a team spreads out, and turn a defeat into a victory or vice versa.   So while unlikely given your description, a loss is nearly always possible given the right (or wrong) circumstances.  This isn't to say that is what this situation was (I wasn't there), just expressing that I have seen some amazing upsets in this game when a team played like it couldn't lose.

 

As to your main point, the fault lies with WG, the players are simply following the mechanics that were incentivised. Rewards are more win based than performance based.   A 100k loss nets fewer rewards than a 50k win.  When one is sporting limited usage camo and flags for maximum bonuses, the difference between a win and a loss on the same performance can be equal to dozens of base game rewards.   To such a player the "fun" is in progressing along their ship line, or upgrading a ship, or finally getting that ship they have wanted to play for so long, and losing is a barrier to that fun.  

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"Winning is the only thing!" = "My self worth and ego are tied directly to these pixels."

 

I have frustrating wins, i have crushing losses; if i didn't enjoy the process of getting there i wouldn't be playing; which is why for WoW and WoT i stick to EU server more than ever.

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On 30.07.2018 at 3:04 PM, Stormie1126 said:

 

I can understand your viewpoint. If it is a tough hard fought game where we just got outplayed....those losses don't really bother me. I do enjoy those kinds of games, right up until the end of the game....a tough hard fought loss where nobody on your team made any egregious mistakes but you just lost can be more fun than a complete one sided beat down. Even though those are win, they are seldom fun.

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Vince Lombardi said it best, "Winning isn't everything. It's the ONLY thing."

It is sad to think winning a video game is the only thing. I play for fun & do my best to win.

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13 minutes ago, Rimrender said:

"Winning is the only thing!" = "My self worth and ego are tied directly to these pixels."

 

I have frustrating wins, i have crushing losses; if i didn't enjoy the process of getting there i wouldn't be playing; which is why for WoW and WoT i stick to EU server more than ever.

You would be incorrect, winning is the only thing is a good mentality if it applies to everything in your life. I am in sales and my goal every month is to beat EVERYONE.  In gaming my goal is to win every game, which is a goal I know I will never attain but if I am ALWAYS striving to improve as a player than I will get better. I am just hard wired that way.........I wish I was not but as I tell people I will beat a five year old at tiddly winks until he cries and not care. I went round and round with my sister on this when I was playing games with her son. We used to play Madden all the time and I would smash him 75-0 when he was 7. 55-10 when he was 8, 41-17 when he was 9, 31-27 when he was 10. He finally beat me when he was 11 for the first time. He was so motivated and happy because he earned it. I was pissed because I lost but I was happy for him that he stuck with it, grew, and learned a little something about persistence and overcoming the odds. 

 

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Am I the only one to see the irony of the OP complaining about people wanting to win and that being their definition of fun while inserting his own version of fun and how that should be the accepted definition?

For me winning is fun, I can have fun in a loss, sure, but if its derpy team after derpy team my tolerance for losses decreases (see my raging in Raptor OPs on Saturday, sorry about that btw). In my opinion if you aren't playing to win, then don't play the game, but hey, that's just my definition of fun.

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11 minutes ago, kgh52 said:

It is sad to think winning a video game is the only thing. I play for fun & do my best to win.

Winning is the only thing is meant to be a metaphor, more of a mentality or a lifestyle than to be taken literally. What it means is that you will work your hardest to be the best you can be at WHATEVER you do in life. There is absolutely NOTHING WRONG WITH STRIVING FOR EXCELLENCE. Having a chilled laid back attitude that I am only here to have fun and do my best to win is how you end up with a 42% win rate and a 366 personal rating. If you can have fun being a bottom 10% player in a game that's on you. Personally I could NEVER accept being that bad at something.

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People have different views on what is ‘fun’. Some find fun in pursuing high win-rates, damage figures, and kill-death ratios. Some find fun simply in shooting ships regardless of the battle’s outcome. Others find fun in a combination of both. With so many different viewpoints on what is ‘fun’, arguments are bound to happen. If mutual understanding can’t be established in a respectful manner, simply carry on with the match and use the reporting/blocking features. We shouldn’t insult others based on whether they care too much or too little about winning.

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Skilled players have the awareness to know when it's safe to be aggressive and when you need to stop firing, go invisible and win on points. If he was as off in his judgement as you claim he was, then he wasn't very skilled.

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35 minutes ago, Belthorian said:

Winning is the only thing is meant to be a metaphor, more of a mentality or a lifestyle than to be taken literally. What it means is that you will work your hardest to be the best you can be at WHATEVER you do in life. There is absolutely NOTHING WRONG WITH STRIVING FOR EXCELLENCE. Having a chilled laid back attitude that I am only here to have fun and do my best to win is how you end up with a 42% win rate and a 366 personal rating. If you can have fun being a bottom 10% player in a game that's on you. Personally I could NEVER accept being that bad at something.

This would"heavily" depend on what the individual players goal is. In other words, what you are looking to get out of the game (100% win ratio, so to speak) where I may be looking to throw on some tunes and blow some ships up if only for the sake of blowing ships up.

This is where the "you do you and I do me", "different strokes for different folks", "insert another 100 cliche's here" come in.

Finally, you assert that winning is good because "winning is the only thing is a good mentality if it applies to everything in your life. I am in sales and my goal every month is to beat EVERYONE.  

While I can understand this point of view in the context of a sales atmosphere, winning most certainly is not a "good thing" when you have it all the time, especially in our youth. You mentioned "participation trophies" earlier yet completely missed this aspect, which surprises me...

How can we ever appreciate a win/winning or improve ourselves without losing? We need to lose in order to get better. We need to lose to actually appreciate those wins.

If you don't believe me on the winning and losing concept, just research any suscefull professional athlete, well try Michael Jordan, there's a good starting point.

 

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2 minutes ago, BURN_Miner said:

This would"heavily" depend on what the individual players goal is. In other words, what you are looking to get out of the game (100% win ratio, so to speak) where I may be looking to throw on some tunes and blow some ships up if only for the sake of blowing ships up.

This is where the "you do you and I do me", "different strokes for different folks", "insert another 100 cliche's here" come in.

Finally, you assert that winning is good because "winning is the only thing is a good mentality if it applies to everything in your life. I am in sales and my goal every month is to beat EVERYONE.  

While I can understand this point of view in the context of a sales atmosphere, winning most certainly is not a "good thing" when you have it all the time, especially in our youth. You mentioned "participation trophies" earlier yet completely missed this aspect, which surprises me...

How can we ever appreciate a win/winning or improve ourselves without losing? We need to lose in order to get better. We need to lose to actually appreciate those wins.

If you don't believe me on the winning and losing concept, just research any suscefull professional athlete, well try Michael Jordan, there's a good starting point.

 

I totally understand what you are saying brother and I agree with you. If I wanted to win 100% of the time I would play COOP. I enjoy the intensity and challenge of randoms. 

When you said what would winning be without losing I started to laugh really hard because it reminded of a scene from A Vampire in Brooklyn. When the Vampire shape shifted into the form of the preacher. He gave a sermon that without evil we wouldn't know what good was, therefore evil is good. It was hilarious.

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well he is a fool if he thinks if he can control 11 other random players.

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LOL on a side note, has anyone else noticed that this is probably the most respectful thread that we have ever scene on these boards about this topic?

 

Normally this goes with an OP statement of "winning is everything/I play for fun" followed by hoards of  comments after amounting to "everyone else sucks but me".

 

Pardon me but it is just too perfect an opportunity to use this gif

cats-and-dogs-living-together-gif-2.gif.c006cf1131ab18e2709c1c7f62a12ccc.gif

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5 hours ago, Belthorian said:

There is no such thing is having fun on a losing team. Or not caring if you lose because you had 150k damage, a kracken, high caliber, and confederate. Playing exceptionally well on a team that still loses is especially frustrating. Vince Lombardi said it best, "Winning isn't everything. It's the ONLY thing."

Now calling people out for bad strategy WHILE you are doing the same thing is bad form. If you leave the CAP while everyone is pushing into the enemy base that is on ou. I lost a match for my team doing that once. I was in a division with Komrade Rylo, he saw the situation developing on the map before I did and told me to cover the cap. Like an idiot, I was farming damage. Our cap got captured and I was literally 3 seconds too late to resetting the cap. Playing the objective should be everyone's first priority over personal stats. The people who have fun in a loss or feel good because they played well in a loss, I suspect they won quite a few participation trophies in their youth.

That match I described was a one-sided blow out on our part, we had a six-ship advantage until the enemy DD got into our cap. We had no business losing that game but our team INCLUDING me played foolishly and gave the game away.

511-512 ring a Bel?

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