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Jef_Roberts

Royal Netherlands Navy

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Okay so now we have an Argentine cruiser to go with our Polish destroyer and a mostly phantom line of Pan-Asian ships, including an Indonesian destroyer that they bought from the Netherlands Navy. Can we get some Dutch warships in World of Warships?  A navy with a long and distinguished history, unique and indigenous warships designs, innovations (the Hazemeyer Bofors was a revolutionary anti aircraft weapon when the US was still equipping its ships with Chicago pianos (quad 1.1s) and Britain was mountain 2pdr pom pom mounts). There are virtually complete tech trees for both destroyers and cruisers that would require only minimum padding with paper ships - the same as was done for Germany and Russia - and a substantial tech tree for battleships as well (all paper ships) culminating in the Project 1047 battle cruiser, a gorgeous cruiser killing beast of a ship. Let's at the very least get some Premium ships to honor this fine navy.

Hr._Ms._De_Ruyter_(1936).jpg

Hr._Ms._Tromp_1_1936.jpg

Java_cruiser_SLV_H91.325_284.jpg

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@Jef_Roberts look under the player ship suggestions, there are a few threads on the subject, project 1047 and 1913 were both discussed yesterday.

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i think @Lert himself made a thread about potential ships for a dutch line.

everything is possible,i mean Wot have polish and swedish tanks,their tier10 is a prototype of stridvagn S,a late cold war tank.

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We need a Pan Europeon tech tree, and put the Blys in there.

 

Plenty of Dutch Norweigan Swedish Spanish Polish and Portugese Ships that can make a tech tree. 

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11 minutes ago, Cruxdei said:

i think @Lert himself made a thread about potential ships for a dutch line.

I've been championing Dutch ships for a long, long time.

My tech tree proposal, going as far as I can using only built-in-steel ships, not going into theoretical ones.

A case for De Zeven Provincien as T8 CL

A case for Witte de With as T6 DD

A proposal for 1047 as T6 BB

I have a lot of older ADLA style threads as well, but those are older threads and very flawed. I hope my serious cases and proposals are at least well received.

@Jef_Roberts

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I think with the trends, 1047 will be the t9 or 10 in the cruiser line.

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4 minutes ago, crzyhawk said:

I think with the trends, 1047 will be the t9 or 10 in the cruiser line.

Lacks the DPM unless WG buffs its ROF beyond reason - as in, 40% above historical, along with giving it a fantasy AA suite. I don't think they'd go that far. It carries basically a variant of Scharnhorst's guns, but with lower ROF, 2.5 instead of Scharnhorst's 3.

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I would really love a Dutch DD or Cruiser line un WoWs since I'm a dutchie myself! 

At least give us some premiums to start with. Something like de Ruyter would be neat!

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10 minutes ago, Lert said:

Lacks the DPM unless WG buffs its ROF beyond reason - as in, 40% above historical, along with giving it a fantasy AA suite. I don't think they'd go that far. It carries basically a variant of Scharnhorst's guns, but with lower ROF, 2.5 instead of Scharnhorst's 3.

they could give her better penetration,like soviet 305mm.less dpm but better penetration at tier7.

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10 minutes ago, Lert said:

Lacks the DPM unless WG buffs its ROF beyond reason - as in, 40% above historical, along with giving it a fantasy AA suite. I don't think they'd go that far. It carries basically a variant of Scharnhorst's guns, but with lower ROF, 2.5 instead of Scharnhorst's 3.

Given the fact she was never built, there's no reason they couldn't just use Scharnhorst guns.  Realistic ROF has been out the window for cruisers for quite some time anyways.  Personally, I wanted 1047, Alaska, Stalingrad, etc to be t6-7 BBs.  Since they are making them into cruisers, I think 1047 will help them complete the line.  It's one of the FEW nations that have a legit t9-10 "cruiser" design when you count the large cruisers.

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1 minute ago, Cruxdei said:

they could give her better penetration,like soviet 305mm.less dpm but better penetration at tier7.

Remains the DPM that's T5 level. I already had to apply an a-historical buff to make her work at T6, using Graf Spee's increased AP damage potential over Scharnhorst's.

Plus, they're German designed rifles based on Scharnhorst's / Deutschland's guns, firing German ammo of similar weight, using similar velocities, and similar chamber pressures. Makes no sense to make the shells super. Especially since you'd still have T5 / T6 DPM and AA suite.

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3 minutes ago, crzyhawk said:

Given the fact she was never built, there's no reason they couldn't just use Scharnhorst guns.  Realistic ROF has been out the window for cruisers for quite some time anyways.  Personally, I wanted 1047, Alaska, Stalingrad, etc to be t6-7 BBs.  Since they are making them into cruisers, I think 1047 will help them complete the line.  It's one of the FEW nations that have a legit t9-10 "cruiser" design when you count the large cruisers.

Or, they could - wait for it - this'll blow your mind - introduce it where it fits -perfectly- as is, instead of buffing soft stats beyond reason and inventing an AA suite that was never even theorized for her, buffing her to a state that goes beyond what she was ever designed as.

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4 minutes ago, Lert said:

Remains the DPM that's T5 level. I already had to apply an a-historical buff to make her work at T6, using Graf Spee's increased AP damage potential over Scharnhorst's.

Plus, they're German designed rifles based on Scharnhorst's / Deutschland's guns, firing German ammo of similar weight, using similar velocities, and similar chamber pressures. Makes no sense to make the shells super. Especially since you'd still have T5 / T6 DPM and AA suite.

the ship ,if i can remember,was not exactly built,so the dpm is a theory right?i thought they tried to copy the scharn guns,how did they manage to give the guns a  worse dpm?steel quality?crew training?

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17 minutes ago, Lert said:

Or, they could - wait for it - this'll blow your mind - introduce it where it fits -perfectly- as is, instead of buffing soft stats beyond reason and inventing an AA suite that was never even theorized for her, buffing her to a state that goes beyond what she was ever designed as.

I think that ship sailed a long time ago hehe

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Why was my original reply downvoted since all i did was mention where a current thread on the same topic was?

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29 minutes ago, Cruxdei said:

the ship ,if i can remember,was not exactly built,so the dpm is a theory right?

It was never built, but the design process was very far along. Plus, just because it wasn't built doesn't mean we should just throw design numbers away and buff the ROF beyond any realism or reason. Even if we gave her Scharnhorst's ROF and Graf Spee's inflated damage per shell, she would still be woefully inadequate for a T9 battlecruiser, with only 226800 DPM vs, say, Kronshtadt's 262700, and that's without Kronshtadt's superior alpha strike and penetration, and already some hilariously outrageous buffs applied to 1047. Plus, she'd have woefully inadequate AA, being mediocre for a T5 / 6, and completely useless at T9, so WG would have to invent a whole new AA suite, just to fit her at a tier and type she does not belong.

Like I said, we could give her hilariously outrageous buffs and invent AA suites out of wholecloth, or just slot her in right where she fits just about perfectly as is.

29 minutes ago, Cruxdei said:

i thought they tried to copy the scharn guns,how did they manage to give the guns a  worse dpm?steel quality?crew training?

They wanted Scharnhorst's guns, but who knows whether the German government would allow a country they were planning to invade access to the same weapons they used on two of their ships. 'Monkey models' is a thing that exists. As for how they arrived at a slower ROF, my theory is that they likely had a less efficient ammunition feed system. Guns are only able to fire as fast as their ammunition can be fed to them. Plus, remember that 1047 was a lighter design with a much shallower draft (Scharnhorst had 9.9m draft, 1047 was designed for 7.8m draft) so had less space underneath the turrets for elaborate barbettes. Imposed compactness might negatively influence efficiency further. Again, this is just my theory.

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25 minutes ago, Lert said:

Or, they could - wait for it - this'll blow your mind - introduce it where it fits -perfectly- as is, instead of buffing soft stats beyond reason and inventing an AA suite that was never even theorized for her, buffing her to a state that goes beyond what she was ever designed as.

Lert please don't blow anyone's minds, WG needs them for profit.  And yes, I'm with you all the way in not buffing a ship beyond necessary to fit a tier (I.E. Graf Zeppelin).  I don't mind a T6 Scharnhorst or the fact that she maybe to large (looking at you Dunkerque).  Plus I am/I was working on such a concept for this ship: 

 

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/forum/35-general-game-discussion/

Edited by Airglide2

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3 minutes ago, Lert said:

It was never built, but the design process was very far along. Plus, just because it wasn't built doesn't mean we should just throw design numbers away and buff the ROF beyond any realism or reason. Even if we gave her Scharnhorst's ROF and Graf Spee's inflated damage per shell, she would still be woefully inadequate for a T9 battlecruiser, with only 226800 DPM vs, say, Kronshtadt's 262700, and that's without Kronshtadt's superior alpha strike and penetration, and already some hilariously outrageous buffs applied to 1047. Plus, she'd have woefully inadequate AA, being mediocre for a T5 / 6, and completely useless at T9, so WG would have to invent a whole new AA suite, just to fit her at a tier and type she does not belong.

Like I said, we could give her hilariously outrageous buffs and invent AA suites out of wholecloth, or just slot her in right where she fits just about perfectly as is.

They wanted Scharnhorst's guns, but who knows whether the German government would allow a country they were planning to invade access to the same weapons they used on two of their ships. 'Monkey models' is a thing that exists. As for how they arrived at a slower ROF, my theory is that they likely had a less efficient ammunition feed system. Guns are only able to fire as fast as their ammunition can be fed to them. Plus, remember that 1047 was a lighter design with a much shallowed draft, so had less space underneath the turrets for an elaborate barbettes.

i was thinking about tier7,she might work at tier6 as a "nerfed" scharn.for a ship being studied by a country that had a pacifist mindset in ww2 and interwar(i think),she looks pretty ok.

Edited by Cruxdei

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8 minutes ago, TheTrickpony said:

Why was my original reply downvoted since all i did was mention where a current thread on the same topic was?

Dunno.

I'm waiting for Prinz Eitel Friedrich to release so I can write a proposal for 1913 just like I did for 1047. It's likely 1913 would've used the same guns, and I recently found more information about some of the armor layouts proposed for 1913.

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1 minute ago, Cruxdei said:

i was thinking about tier7,she might work at tier6 as a "nerfed" scharn.for a ship being studied by a country that had a pacifist mindset in ww2 and interwar(i think),she looks pretty ok.

She is lighter, lighter armored and with less DPM than Scharn, plus she lacks torpedoes. I don't think she'd survive at T7 unless buffed beyond her design. I already had to give her Graf Spee's buffed AP damage to give her competitive DPM at tier 6, with Scharnhorst's AP damage she would've had low DPM for tier 5.

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There were good articles in Warship International some years ago covering both the BBs and Project 1047. And plenty of material on the cruisers as well - design studies and such. I've got a whole personal library full of material.

 

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3 minutes ago, Lert said:

Dunno.

I'm waiting for Prinz Eitel Friedrich to release so I can write a proposal for 1913 just like I did for 1047. It's likely 1913 would've used the same guns, and I recently found more information about some of the armor layouts proposed for 1913.

do you have any information about blueprints of belgian navy ships?

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1 minute ago, Cruxdei said:

do you have any information about blueprints of belgian navy ships?

Sorry, no. AFAIK they never really had their own ships either, just bought them from other navies. In fact, it's a bit of a unique situation that a country as small as the NL has such a naval tradition and designed / built so many of their own ships. And Belgium is even smaller. Right now for example I know that they're sailing around a few Dutch handmedowns, Karel Doorman type frigates IIRC.

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I don't have anything on Belgium either. Not too many indigenous ships except for the Westdiep/Westhinder frigate class.

 

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