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iDuckman

Fake wars - theory of a theory

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It appears as though this Go Navy! event was set up in support of someone's post-grad research into social engineering.

Design a meaningless competition where the only difference is the names of the teams.  There are no causes attached to the sides.  There are two and only two motivators:

  1. Self-interest, which can be manipulated by bribes.
  2. A desire to cohere to the more powerful group.  (Note: This is distinct from a desire to "win"; that is included in 1. )

From the start, one side will gain an advantage causing new recruits as well as members of the other team preferentially to move to it -- a "get on the band-wagon" effect.  [So far, this phenomenon has been observed.]

The supposed counter to band-wagoning would be bribes.  Bribery might take any form of appeal to self-interest.

Hypothesis:  No level of bribery is sufficient to overcome a mob mentality.
 

Corollary:  Where there is no cause justifying team "loyalty", a team member will invent one. 

  • E.g. the pro- and anti-American jingoism generated by the resemblance of a team icon to a national symbol. 
  • E.g. "Loyalty as a virtue."

 

It will be fascinating to watch how this plays out.  I'd love to see some stats on the effectiveness of bribes.  And to see the paper that is generated from this research.

 

Edited by iDuckman
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I finally figured out that the only reward that really matters in the game is the permacamo for the tier X ship. That's why I'm staying put until I get enough tokens. Note that you get more and more tokens the longer you stay put.

 

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50 minutes ago, iDuckman said:

It appears as though this Go Navy! event was set up in support of someone's post-grad research into social engineering.

Design a meaningless competition where the only difference is the names of the teams.  There are no causes attached to the sides.  There are two and only two motivators:

  1. Self-interest, which can be manipulated by bribes.
  2. A desire to cohere to the more powerful group.  (Note: This is distinct from a desire to "win"; that is included in 1. )

From the start, one side will gain an advantage causing new recruits as well as members of the other team preferentially to move to it -- a "get on the band-wagon" effect.  [So far, this phenomenon has been observed.]

The supposed counter to band-wagoning would be bribes.  Bribery might take any form of appeal to self-interest.

Hypothesis:  No level of bribery is sufficient to overcome a mob mentality.
 

Corollary:  Where there is no cause justifying team "loyalty", a team member will invent one.  E.g. the pro- and anti-American jingoism generated by the resemblance of a team icon to a national symbol.  E.g. "Loyalty as a virtue."

 

It will be fascinating to watch how this plays out.  I'd love to see some stats on the effectiveness of bribes.  And to see the paper that is generated from this research.

 

You over simplified teh motivations as to why somebody would choose and/or stick with either faction.  I'm not planning on switching factions at any point,regardless of bribes, yet I have no real desire for the "big" payoff.  The size of either faction isn't a factor for me, either,  doesn't matter which side wins - I'm just playing as usual.

My major motivation is actually sloth -  can't be bothered switching.

I'm not that unique, there will be many players where the choice is essentially so arbitrary it barely rates being a choice. 

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8 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

I finally figured out that the only reward that really matters in the game is the permacamo for the tier X ship. That's why I'm staying put until I get enough tokens. Note that you get more and more tokens the longer you stay put.

And if bribery would help you get them earlier? 

I'm staying put because I don't really care about the camos.

 

Edited by iDuckman

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3 minutes ago, Nukelavee45 said:

You over simplified teh motivations as to why somebody would choose and/or stick with either faction. 

I merely gave two examples of motivations; I wasn't trying to be comprehensive at all.  The point was that people will supply their own motives if non are built into the competition.

Sloth and stubbornness are others.

 

Edited by iDuckman
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I came to enjoy the fun of explody boats in the cyber company of many others with like interest on to find a lecture on the theoretical purpose of our chosen activity! Very interesting!

I suppose there is no way it could be a 'Lets give them something different with a larger picture goal to achieve to see how many love it, hate it or just don't give a rip either way!' or maybe even Go ahead and have fun or else I'll give you something to have fun about! 

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Well...

I was given the chance to jump ship as it were, and join the other team.

I went with Loyalty instead.

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44 minutes ago, Nukelavee45 said:

My major motivation is actually sloth -  can't be bothered switching.

lol

+1 for straightforwardness.

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This experiment isn't a Research paper it is Russian Conditioning. It is a precursor to Brain Washing once they acquire the NA influence they need before Invasion. 

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16 minutes ago, CLUCH_CARGO said:

This experiment isn't a Research paper it is Russian Conditioning. It is a precursor to Brain Washing once they acquire the NA influence they need before Invasion. 

I'm sorry Clutch, I just couldn't resist. Maybe they should have chosen Moose and Squirrel for their team icons,

1338371923-Rocky_and_Bullwinkle.jpg

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2 hours ago, iDuckman said:

It appears as though this Go Navy! event was set up in support of someone's post-grad research into social engineering.

Design a meaningless competition where the only difference is the names of the teams.  There are no causes attached to the sides.  There are two and only two motivators:

  1. Self-interest, which can be manipulated by bribes.
  2. A desire to cohere to the more powerful group.  (Note: This is distinct from a desire to "win"; that is included in 1. )

From the start, one side will gain an advantage causing new recruits as well as members of the other team preferentially to move to it -- a "get on the band-wagon" effect.  [So far, this phenomenon has been observed.]

The supposed counter to band-wagoning would be bribes.  Bribery might take any form of appeal to self-interest.

Hypothesis:  No level of bribery is sufficient to overcome a mob mentality.
 

Corollary:  Where there is no cause justifying team "loyalty", a team member will invent one.  E.g. the pro- and anti-American jingoism generated by the resemblance of a team icon to a national symbol.  E.g. "Loyalty as a virtue."

 

It will be fascinating to watch how this plays out.  I'd love to see some stats on the effectiveness of bribes.  And to see the paper that is generated from this research.

 

I was going to say try the politicians....but some folks might take offence to that..and it does not matter what country you are in either...

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You simply do not understand how awesome the shark team is. It is not just a matter of bribery. It is not just a matter of wanting to win. Every shark knows what I speak of: the bond; the connection we have to our team. It strikes deep at our core and binds us, body and soul to the single ideal that still holds any meaning in our lives. The sense of power; the dignity of that noble beast, the very masculine and totally platonic and cool love we have for the shark... The fact that we are totally superior and win every day is merely a byproduct of our awesomeness. But a birdy boi like you just couldn't understand something like that.

Edited by senseNOTmade

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lol That is A LOT of thought into this event...

Personally I chose Sharks at the beginning for two reasons. 

1) I already have two eagle style camo's, one for the Cleveland and one for the Baltimore.

2) I personally like the Sharks camo more than the Eagles one.

With regards to being "bribed", um I wouldn't take one based simply on the fact that I don't want to lose progress towards my camo...

It's all fine, well and wonderful that the folks at NASA got involved with doing the math at the most efficient way to possibly scam the system here, but heck, I don't even know when the event ends. So my main concern is just getting the camo I set out to get.

Why people are trying to make this such a sinister thing is not only beyond me, but it's turned into somewhat of a punch line.

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This is Fire and Water all over again; they even used the same colors, only this time you can change sides and it has different, but just as crappy, rewards. Last time the red, or Fire, team won; this time it's the blue, or water, or Shark team. Aside from the colors there is no difference in the teams at all. I also don't care at all about the camo, though I do enjoy listening to all the chest pounding about which team is best in a contest so arbitrary. Seriously, the names could have been Ants and Bees, Trees and Bushes, or Mold and Mildew. 

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49 minutes ago, GrandAdmiral_2016 said:

I was going to say try the politicians....but some folks might take offence to that..and it does not matter what country you are in either...

I was thinking the Fredrich Engels Institute for Social Massage in Minsk, but it just as easily could have been the local branch...

 

30 minutes ago, BURN_Miner said:

Why people are trying to make this such a sinister thing

Sinster?  Pure research can never be sinister (unlike applied research).

Tell me, does it sometimes seem that you are being manipulated?  Uh huh.  How does that make you feel?

 

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3 hours ago, iDuckman said:

Where there is no cause justifying team "loyalty", a team member will invent one.  E.g. the pro- and anti-American jingoism generated by the resemblance of a team icon to a national symbol. 

In before the lock.

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Lock?  What lock?  There's nothing offensive or rule-breaking here.

Even if frivolity has suddenly become illegal, we are discussing weighty matters:  How do people act and react in arbitrary contests such as this?

 

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1 hour ago, 3Sheets2_theWind said:

I'm sorry Clutch, I just couldn't resist. Maybe they should have chosen Moose and Squirrel for their team icons,

1338371923-Rocky_and_Bullwinkle.jpg

YES!  though royalties...

 

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53 minutes ago, iDuckman said:

I was thinking the Fredrich Engels Institute for Social Massage in Minsk, but it just as easily could have been the local branch...

 

Sinster?  Pure research can never be sinister (unlike applied research).

Tell me, does it sometimes seem that you are being manipulated?  Uh huh.  How does that make you feel?

 

Uh, how is "pure research" which in and of itself based on data, now suddenly backed by "feelings"?

Can you please explain how you are putting those two together in the same context while maintaining a straight face? I'm being serious....

Edited by BURN_Miner

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13 minutes ago, BURN_Miner said:

"pure research"  ... "feelings"  ... Can you please explain how you are putting those two together in the same context

I am not.  You are.  Where in the OP is "feelings" mentioned or inferred?

13 minutes ago, BURN_Miner said:

while maintaining a straight face?

Practice practice practice.

14 minutes ago, BURN_Miner said:

I'm being serious....

Yeah.  Now, that's the frightening bit.

 

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38 minutes ago, iDuckman said:

I am not.  You are.  Where in the OP is "feelings" mentioned or inferred?

Practice practice practice.

Yeah.  Now, that's the frightening bit.

 

Nice try at deflecting to your original post.. It was in your definition when you first quoted me, but then again you know this and anyone who has 2nd grade reading comprehension does as well.

"Practice practice practice", well what's sad is the fact you practice trolling.. That's "truly frightening"...

About this point in time is when the cat loses interest in the laser pointer.

Have a good day.

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32 minutes ago, BURN_Miner said:

Nice try at deflecting to your original post..

Deflecting to my original post?  This whole bloody thread is about my original post. 

 

Quote

" Tell me, does it sometimes seem that you are being manipulated?  Uh huh.  How does that make you feel? "

This is what is known in professional circles as a JOKE.  If you don't get it, it's because you don't want to.

 

Kindly stay gone, having added nothing to the conversation. 

 

 

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On 7/29/2018 at 2:40 PM, Umikami said:

This is Fire and Water all over again; they even used the same colors, only this time you can change sides and it has different, but just as crappy, rewards. Last time the red, or Fire, team won; this time it's the blue, or water, or Shark team. Aside from the colors there is no difference in the teams at all. I also don't care at all about the camo, though I do enjoy listening to all the chest pounding about which team is best in a contest so arbitrary. Seriously, the names could have been Ants and Bees, Trees and Bushes, or Mold and Mildew. 

Yup, same silliness about who is better, same attempt at hashtags for buzz, etc. Anyways hardly matters, just reinforces what I believe about Wargaming as a company.... All they have left in the tank is rehashing old, stale ideas. Just waiting on WG's next title, "World of WarTrains". 

Edited by Taylor3006

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1 hour ago, Taylor3006 said:

Just waiting on WG's next title, "World of WarTrains". 

At least it would be new!

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18 minutes ago, Umikami said:

At least it would be new!

The worst part is that it would be fun at first then when ya hit Train Tier 6, it would become a slog.... 

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