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Operations Torpedo-dodging AI

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Can we knock this off? I've been trying to get a torpedoman for a few hours now and the bot's advantage over anything that relies on torpedoes is just cruel. Lock or no lock, they ALWAYS see them coming.

If there's a legitimate reason for this, go ahead, state it! Otherwise, cut players some slack and drop the uber-vision on all ships!

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the bots almost always turn towards you to dodge.

Try launching towards that spot or get a lot closer.

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while I'm no great DD player, I don't find bots any harder to torp than players, so long as you unlock the target lock to some other ship moments before firing the torps, if you keep the intended target locked, that's when it becomes hard.

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Here is another bot "feature" that has been around for a long time. The bots will begin evasive actions as soon as you lock onto them and hit the "3" key. They will take more extreme evasion maneuvers  once you click the mouse button and actually fire the torps.

There are 2 counters for this:

1. Get close - the closer the better. A bot Yammy can easily dodge torps at 5K, where one driven by a human would be dead meat.

2. Fire blind - I have a fair amount of success doing this with the Long Lance torps on the Japanese cruisers. I will fire shots into known approach paths before the bot show up, and they often walk right into them. On maps like Two Brothers, you can fire torps at the lead ship in the column, knowing they will dodge them. But if you line up the shot right, then the ships behind them just blunder into them.

Watching the bots screw up is one of the more satisfying things about coop.

Edited by mushmouthmorton
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Actually it seems to be as soon as you fire the Torps that they evade. So I take aim using targeting system, then I deselect the intended target, then fire my Torps bases on the  info  I saw from targeting cone a moment ago.

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The trouble with the bots is that they don't really have to figure out the speed and trajectory, they know it instantly and take the perfect action to miss or mitigate torp damage. With the human maybe you slow down when you should have sped up, it's too late then. Started turning too early, It's too bad for you.

1 hour ago, b101uk said:

while I'm no great DD player, I don't find bots any harder to torp than players, so long as you unlock the target lock to some other ship moments before firing the torps, if you keep the intended target locked, that's when it becomes hard.

You really shouldn't have to trick the mechanics to defeat the bots, but if you have to you have to.

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15 minutes ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

Actually it seems to be as soon as you fire the Torps that they evade. So I take aim using targeting system, then I deselect the intended target, then fire my Torps bases on the  info  I saw from targeting cone a moment ago.

Do this.  Deselect target before you fire your torps, I've found that you'll have a higher chance of hitting them.

One other thing, if the bot is actively engaging another player, it will tend to not dodge too.  So if you have a choice of targets, launch your torps towards the bot that is actively shooting another player and is angling itself against that player.  The bot AI seems to not able to handle multiple opponents.

Edited by bigbearbeear

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People assume way to much about bot behavior and attribute a lot of things to "bot cheating" when, in reality, the explanation is much simpler.

For instance, at some point, bots started getting better at dodging torpedoes.  I started falling prey to the same assumption the OP mentions, that they get to see torpedo in a way that players cannot.  I clearly remember becoming convinced of this idea when I was sitting in smoke in a particular ambush spot and firing torps at an Omaha at what I felt was the perfect timing, but the second I launched, he turned in towards me, and they all missed.  "Okay," I thought, "he definitely saw that launch despite the fact that I am in smoke, so I will just have to start waiting a bit longer and/or firing assuming they will turn when I launch."

Not long after that, I found myself in exactly the same spot on exactly the same map and, ironically, an Omaha was again approaching on exactly the same course and speed.  Only this time, assuming he would see my launch, I waited a bit and attempted to aim assuming he would turn when I launched.  But before I launched my torps, he turned at exactly the same point the previous Omaha did the last time.

I had to admit to myself that, had I launched when I did the last time, it would have again appeared the same way, that he turned because I launched the torps when, in reality, had I not launched the last time, he probably would have turned at that same point as well because that is what bots do.  They react the same way to the same stimuli in a given situation.  In other words, he turned because that is when the AI told him it was time to turn in and charge that smoke cloud to his right, not because he saw my torpedo launch.

Bots have gotten better at dodging torpedoes, not because they get to see them but because the AI has gotten better and they are much less prone to just sail in a straight line, especially when there are dangers nearby.  They are more prone to making course changes, and, as in my circumstance, sometimes the change occurs right at the optimum time to fire if the target is going to maintain the same course and speed.  When you combine this with the fact that bots have become more likely to charge nearby smoke rather than ignore it and that bots have started using hydro, they have simply gotten better at things that make hitting them with torpedoes harder, not that they have special sight to see torpedoes.

3 hours ago, Prothall said:

the bots almost always turn towards you to dodge.

Try launching towards that spot or get a lot closer.

To extend this good advice, stop assuming they are going to sail in a straight line and start doing the things you would do if you were facing a player.  Anticipate what can happen and react accordingly.

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Well, I finally saw the green bots evade the red torps.   The support carrier saw those torps and channeled its inner DD.   Never saw a CV turn on a dime the way that one did.     I got a laugh and told the bot CV +1 on the torp beats.:Smile_teethhappy:

Edited by DiddleDum

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If you play any amount of Co-op you have seen this over and over. Torping bots can be easy at times but most times they dodge like ninja masters.

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