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JackG79

Go Navy contest shouldn't be about kills!!!

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Should have never made it about "KILLS"   The citadel hits, and wins... both great ideas.  But Kills...      This game is a KILL STEALING HAVEN!!!   I know i know.. "There is no such thing as kill stealing"    

Until you have been out there on your own facing down a ship with full health while you have 1/4 health left, PRAYING for your guns to come up, your repair and Damage control to come up as well..... .  The ship is a tier larger than you, has teammates are hitting you with long distance fire as well.  You have planes coming in and you are trying to out manuver the torpedo bombers. ..  All the while trying to stay angled to protect, TRYING for a citadel hit to even the odds...  somehow against all odds, which feel like the WHOLE WORLD vs 1... you manage to get him down to 1K HP... He is turned and trying to get to the safety of his team...   here comes his turn to feel the heat!! Here comes your chance fo redemption....      Here comes your guns... 5, 4, 3,                     

"BA-BOOM"          his ship goes up in a ball of flame, and his info and indicator turn light gray marking his death shot....   "What the hell....  I didn't have any help........" 

Then you look down.  You see that all the while you had BB, or Cruiser teammate tucked safely away behind an island watching you spend all your health fighting for you life.. but not helping you.  No... he isn't helping you because he is holding his shot in for JUST the right time....   That right time?!?!  For when you have done ALL the work...  and he knows your guns are on reload,  Then he will slip right in there, and STEAL that kill.  Pay no mind to the fact that if he helped you..... you would have 3/4's of your HP left...  if he helped you, YOU WOULDN"T CARE if he got the kill... but he didn't. He watched you SUFFER!!!  

He watched you suffer and now he has your kill........              game closes out, and you see him on the "Team" section 3 slots above you because he has 2 more kills than you do.  But you did almost twice the damage...    HE GETS THE REWARD....  You get NOTHING......  Then you are told "There is no such thing as kill stealing................"           

RIght... Right...  NO such thing.............. 

Sandbagging shots, and not helping when you should be helping only because you want to put the death blow in, after someone else has done all the hard work should be tatamont to TREASON!!!  While we have no virtual whipping post.....    I don't think promoting "Kills" in the Go Navy contest does ANYTHING to help this situation.  If anything, I think it promotes it!!!!!! 

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There is no such thing as kill stealing.  The goal of the team is to eliminate the enemy ships.  Every enemy ship that is eliminated, reduces their ability to inflict damage to your team.  That means everyone should be shooting at the lowest HP ship close to them.  That is what focused fire is about.

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2 minutes ago, BearlyHereBear said:

There is no such thing as kill stealing.  The goal of the team is to eliminate the enemy ships.  Every enemy ship that is eliminated, reduces their ability to inflict damage to your team.  That means everyone should be shooting at the lowest HP ship close to them.  That is what focused fire is about.

Gee.. that was non-typical and completely avoided the situation that ACTUALLY happened. Apparently, you do this to your teammates!?!?!  You must be a hit in a crowd!!   

The goal of a basketball game is to make hoops, but you don't LeBron hang out under the other teams goal waiting for someone to throw him the ball... no, when the game moves to the other end of the court, he goes and does his part.   Not doing your part, and ONLY stealing the kill, is kill stealing.  IDGAF if you don't agree or not, ITs kill stealing. 

 

Edited by JackG79
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15 minutes ago, JackG79 said:

Gee.. that was non-typical and completely avoided the situation that ACTUALLY happened. Apparently, you do this to your teammates!?!?!  You must be a hit in a crowd!!   

The goal of a basketball game is to make hoops, but you don't LeBron hang out under the other teams goal waiting for someone to throw him the ball... no, when the game moves to the other end of the court, he goes and does his part.   Not doing your part, and ONLY stealing the kill, is kill stealing.  IDGAF if you don't agree or not, ITs kill stealing. 

 

 Again, it's not about taking someone's meal.  Every dead enemy removes about 8% of their teams ability to inflict damage on your team (of course some ships can inflict more damage than others).  The entire team should be looking for the lowest HP ship to remove them from the game ALWAYS.  Every ship removed lowers the enemy's ability to inflict damage on your team.

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Does not matter if kill stealing/securing is good or bad, this kind of requirement just engenders anger amongst the players. It truly is a stupid and only leads to toxic chat even in co-op play. I truly think Wargaming likes to see everyone at each other's throats. 

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35 minutes ago, JackG79 said:

I don't think promoting "Kills" in the Go Navy contest does ANYTHING to help this situation.  If anything, I think it promotes it!!!!!! 

 

Allow me to disagree.

While it is frustrating to get a double citadel on an enemy ship only to have the last 800HP claimed by a sniping cruiser, this is a team game. I know you don't want to hear this, so I won't repeat what has been said.

One aspect of most random matches is the lack of focused fire. There is a group of players who develop tunnel vision on the ship they are targeting only to ignore the limping DD or zombie BB that is broadside to them at 10km. By promoting kills, players are going to wake from their narrow view slumber and start looking for the right target to focus down. If we're lucky, players might start to understand what that little tool in the bottom right is for. IMHO rewarding kills is a good way to motivate the players to improve their team play.

 

I know you disagree, but I wish you luck.

Edited by _Big_Lou_

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Kills? Citadels? Damage?...oh...so not a contest for DDs then....

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56 minutes ago, JackG79 said:

hen you look down.  You see that all the while you had BB, or Cruiser teammate tucked safely away behind an island watching you spend all your health fighting for you life.. but not helping you.  No... he isn't helping you because he is holding his shot in for JUST the right time....   That right time?!?!  For when you have done ALL the work...  and he knows your guns are on reload,  Then he will slip right in there, and STEAL that kill.  Pay no mind to the fact that if he helped you..... you would have 3/4's of your HP left...  if he helped you, YOU WOULDN"T CARE if he got the kill... but he didn't. He watched you SUFFER!!!

That's not limited to this event. I agree it's outrageous behaviour, and I will sometimes even report for it. But when he finishes above you on the leaderboard? He was doing other things. XP is calculated on proportion of damage done; just grabbing the kill is only worth 15% of what he would have got if he'd done it all. The worst thing is when you have already died and the enemy is guaranteed to flood or burn out from your efforts. Then not only do you lose your kill, if you play in Randoms you lose a Flesh Wound award too.

Sometimes I wish I could see other players' detailed breakdowns for this reason alone; I'd love to know what they actually accomplished that put them above me (ETA so I could know what to do more of next time and get better results, not because I'm bitter).

Edited by Ensign_Cthulhu

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35 minutes ago, JackG79 said:

HE GETS THE REWARD....  You get NOTHING......  Then you are told "There is no such thing as kill stealing................"           

RIght... Right...  NO such thing.............. 

Sandbagging shots, and not helping when you should be helping only because you want to put the death blow in, after someone else has done all the hard work should be tatamont to TREASON!!!  While we have no virtual whipping post.....    I don't think promoting "Kills" in the Go Navy contest does ANYTHING to help this situation.  If anything, I think it promotes it!!!!!! 

I feel ya & I know at times it seems like someone is "stealing" your kill but bear in mind you have a narrow focus of what is going on when you dukeing it out like that. Maybe that guy that you think stole your kill just helped kill another ship, saw you in trouble & tried to help you & the team by removing another ship. Maybe your targets next salvo would have killed you instead of you killing him. Its no different then when an arm chair admiral decides to tell the rest of the team they are wrong based on his narrow scope of the battle. 

Do your best in the match & it always comes out in the wash. 

In the mean time. 

th?id=OIP.Hm-J-W8Mkd_j_Hx6li-RmQHaHa&pid

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making it about kills is really bad for the game, we all know that there are many just waiting until an enemy is likely to be a one salvo. it doesn't benefit to team play at all

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36 minutes ago, JackG79 said:

Gee.. that was non-typical and completely avoided the situation that ACTUALLY happened. Apparently, you do this to your teammates!?!?!  You must be a hit in a crowd!!   

The goal of a basketball game is to make hoops, but you don't LeBron hang out under the other teams goal waiting for someone to throw him the ball... no, when the game moves to the other end of the court, he goes and does his part.   Not doing your part, and ONLY stealing the kill, is kill stealing.  IDGAF if you don't agree or not, ITs kill stealing. 

 

I have to agree, there is no such thing as kill stealing; no one owns a kill. I see red ship, I shoot red ship, I shoot low health ones first to get them off the map before they can fire, heal, or escape.  Can't tell you how many times I have seen a ship with a sliver of health slip behind an island, to come back later and influence the outcome.

Shoot the red ships, the kills will sort themselves out

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47 minutes ago, BearlyHereBear said:

There is no such thing as kill stealing.  The goal of the team is to eliminate the enemy ships.  Every enemy ship that is eliminated, reduces their ability to inflict damage to your team.  That means everyone should be shooting at the lowest HP ship close to them.  That is what focused fire is about.

You're mostly right, Bear.  However, whenever there's some mission where kills are one of the requirements, kill stealing does become a real thing.  And that's the point of the OP's post.  Whenever WG makes kills a mission requirement, they're making kill stealing a thing.  When there are no missions with kills as a requirement, then there really is no kill stealing.

And if you're going to try to claim that people shouldn't pay attention to their missions, you'll be dreaming.  I think that most people do pay attention to their missions.  I know that I do.

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5 minutes ago, Wombatmetal said:

I have to agree, there is no such thing as kill stealing; no one owns a kill. I see red ship, I shoot red ship, I shoot low health ones first to get them off the map before they can fire, heal, or escape.  Can't tell you how many times I have seen a ship with a sliver of health slip behind an island, to come back later and influence the outcome.

Shoot the red ships, the kills will sort themselves out

This is NOT true when there's a mission where kills are a mission requirement.  Note that I'm not defending kill stealing.  I am pointing out that whenever kills are a mission requirement, there will ALWAYS be people looking to steal kills.  And the best way to end this behavior is to simply stop using kills at a mission requirement.

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Already seen this and a few other things this morning. Already seen a guy who wasn't shooting at anything unless he thought he could get the kill. Have also seen people who just sail away from any fight like they are expecting the team to carry them to wins. Look this is one event where you can go do it in PvE just as easily as you can in PvP. If you aren't willing to contribute to the team as a whole just go play the PvE side of it.

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As has already been stated there is no kill real stealing in this game, red is dead. Play to win, the kills will come.

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@JackG79 It is not about kills! The goal is to collectively score more points than the opponents score for theirs. I see no more so called kill steals in this competition than any other battle mode!

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1 minute ago, CAPTMUDDXX said:

@JackG79 It is not about kills! The goal is to collectively score more points than the opponents score for theirs. I see no more so called kill steals in this competition than any other battle mode!

No you need kills to earn points for your team in the Eagles vs Sharks thingie. 

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14 minutes ago, Crucis said:

This is NOT true when there's a mission where kills are a mission requirement.  Note that I'm not defending kill stealing.  I am pointing out that whenever kills are a mission requirement, there will ALWAYS be people looking to steal kills.  And the best way to end this behavior is to simply stop using kills at a mission requirement.

You do have a point that kills is a bad metric for an event

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13 minutes ago, Wombatmetal said:

You do have a point that kills is a bad metric for an event

agreed

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14 minutes ago, Wombatmetal said:

You do have a point that kills is a bad metric for an event

It's a fundamental flaw in every event they put on..  Someone in the upper levels of Wargaming has a very narrow shortsighted mind on inventiveness and creativeness.

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31 minutes ago, Vengeance said:

Already seen this and a few other things this morning. Already seen a guy who wasn't shooting at anything unless he thought he could get the kill. Have also seen people who just sail away from any fight like they are expecting the team to carry them to wins. Look this is one event where you can go do it in PvE just as easily as you can in PvP. If you aren't willing to contribute to the team as a whole just go play the PvE side of it.

The Raptor Rescue scenario 5 star reward is the same thing.   Played yesterday, got 5 stars both times.   BUT... it says you have to kill 5 ships in addition to getting 5 stars.    You whittle 'em down to nothing, and then everyone's guns turn on the bot to get the kill shot.   And, in that scenario, there aren't that many red ships total.   I may change the strategy to just wait and fire kill shots.    LOL.

Full disclosure:  I'm in the camp that doesn't believe in kill stealing.   That said, it is sometimes a point of frustration when the reward depends on a kill.    Usually, the kills sort themselves out.   But in a challenge that's weighted on number of kills?   Yeah, it happens.   Yeah, it's frustrating.   Yeah, I hit the Battle button to try again.

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5 minutes ago, DiddleDum said:

Full disclosure:  I'm in the camp that doesn't believe in kill stealing.   That said, it is sometimes a point of frustration when the reward depends on a kill.    Usually, the kills sort themselves out.   But in a challenge that's weighted on number of kills?   Yeah, it happens.   Yeah, it's frustrating.   Yeah, I hit the Battle button to try again

Normally I am of the attitude that a dead ship is great no matter who gets it. The frustration comes when you do see someone who is refusing to shoot at anyone unless it's a kill shot. That is a person who isn't really contributing to a win. Before someone comes along and makes the claim that just killing is a contribution, stop and think about how much damage their full salvo could be worth and compare that to how much damage they are actually doing. We are talking salvos that could take off 15k or more hp being used on ships with less than 1k health.

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23 minutes ago, BearlyHereBear said:

agreed

AHAHAHHAHA     Funny how you now agree, but when I said it in the OP you ignored the point of the post and went into fan boy "No such thing as kill stealing" Mode.  

 

You guys YAMMERING on and on with same old crap about 'shoot the red ships" "Red is dead" "Everyone do their best and kills will sort themselves out"  " no such thing as kill stealing, i shoot the ships around me" blah blah blah <PUKE> and double BLAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH 

OBVIOUSLY.... FRICKIN OBVIOUSLY... if someone is doing their job... and playing the game....  and they happen to shoot a ship and give it it's death blow...  That is NOT kills tealing.  BUT THAT IS FAR AND AWAY 100% DIFFERENT than the post that I made....  

What is reading comprehension?!?!  

Everyone is so hot to trot and jump on the bandwagon about 'no such thing as kill stealing'  that you COMPLETELY overlook the scenerio described...  and you subscribe to what you WANT to believe and say.   

What is the point of having the forums if all you are going to do is peruse the post, and instead of replying to it,  just post some knee jerk fan boy reaction to the HOT WORD:  Kill STealing!!! omfg... he said .... "KILL STEALING"...................   

How about this: 

52 minutes ago, Vengeance said:

Already seen this and a few other things this morning. Already seen a guy who wasn't shooting at anything unless he thought he could get the kill. Have also seen people who just sail away from any fight like they are expecting the team to carry them to wins. Look this is one event where you can go do it in PvE just as easily as you can in PvP. If you aren't willing to contribute to the team as a whole just go play the PvE side of it.

  See.....  Vengeance actually READ the post, and took the time to correlate it's meaning to ACTUAL in game behavior... 

Not the "As long as everyone is doing their job kills will come" crowd response....     

Obviously if everyone is doing their job, and someone gets the last shot on a boat out of NATURAL play....  No big deal at all........ as I said in my OP....    I WOULDN"T EVEN CARE THAT HE GOT THE KILL if HE WAS HELPING INSTEAD OF WATCHING ME SUFFER"  

I'll tell ya right now,  If you think it's normal, rational "TEAM PLAY" for one pesron to sit behind and island watching another teammate get shot to crap trying to sty alive against all odds.... And you DON"T help him....  But instead you just sit there watching so you can Sandbag his kill........      Then Idk who has more issues...  him for doing it, or YOU for defending it! 

The scenerio that Vengeance above stated is 100% someone trolling around, sandbagging shot, TO KILL STEALING from the people who did all the work.  

The scenerio that I painted in response to a game i played this morning.... is 100% KILL STEALING 

So don't respond with SOME OTHER scenerio and then say "That's not kill stealing"  .......  yeah... no crapsherlocke....  you explained something totally different.  

 

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If you've ever served in the real military then you will know that there is no such thing as "kill stealing." Any enemy that can fire back at you is a threat.

For instance, I spend most of this game with very little health after mistakenly drifting out of smoke and getting plastered in the first 5 minutes. It only took one hit to end me, which someone finally did.

shot-18_07.26_11_06.59-0366.thumb.jpg.f8075494c3997e8bd227b13b8278775f.jpg

And the Eagles and Sharks thing isn't just about kills. Heroic achievements count as do the personal assignments you get once in a while. 

I played a game last year where myself and a tier VI Cleveland were running around the map wasting everyone. He got a Kraken, even though I took most of the hitpoints off the enemy ships with my BB. It was all good -- we took out 5 of the enemy team.

Edited by Snargfargle

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Just a suggestion but maybe people would more quickly grasp what your main point is if you focus on that point and don't abuse the bold and caplock features...that makes you come across as a ranting angry person and people are quick to dismiss that type of a poster, and your point gets lost in what people see as blind rage.

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