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Snargfargle

The Economics of "More Resources"

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An average signal flag costs about the same in coal at the arsenal as you get from one slot of the "More Resources" container selection. If you choose "More Signals..." you usually get four signal flags per slot, albeit of a random nature.  I guess picking what you want comes with a steep price.

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can you say that again in simpler speak? 

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2 minutes ago, BlailBlerg said:

can you say that again in simpler speak? 

He's saying that one "More Resources" container will give you the amount of coal you need to buy one set of flags of whichever type you choose from the arsenal.

While the "More Camouflages and Signal Flags" container gives you multiple sets, but they're random and not always what the player wants.

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1 minute ago, Cruiser_StLouis said:

He's saying that one "More Resources" container will give you the amount of coal you need to buy one set of flags of whichever type you choose from the arsenal.

While the "More Camouflages and Signal Flags" container gives you multiple sets, but they're random and not always what the player wants.

Ok, thanks for the reading help =)

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"More Resources" will at most yield 1200 coal with a minimum of 400, and quite often will yield either flags or free XP (but the flags include Equal Speed Charlie London, Zulu Hotel and Papa Papa, useful for captain and XP grinds).

One of the slots yields EITHER 400 coal OR ESCL x 3 OR 500 FXP. That adds up fast.

And even if all of them gave only coal, IIRC a lot of the flag sets are much more expensive than that. But those flags and free XP... this is looking mighty good.

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21 minutes ago, Cruiser_StLouis said:

He's saying that one "More Resources" container will give you the amount of coal you need to buy one set of flags of whichever type you choose from the arsenal.

Actually, only one flag. Whereas the random choice fives you four.

Example:

Coal                     400 

Flag equivalent    1     

Standard crate     4    

Edited by Snargfargle

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23 minutes ago, Cruiser_StLouis said:

He's saying that one "More Resources" container will give you the amount of coal you need to buy one set of flags of whichever type you choose from the arsenal.

While the "More Camouflages and Signal Flags" container gives you multiple sets, but they're random and not always what the player wants.

What he said, except OP means 1 (singular) flag - not one set of flags.  At least, that's the way I read it.  Generally that's a 1:8 ratio if you choose the More Flags & Camo container.

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1 hour ago, Snargfargle said:

An average signal flag costs about the same in coal at the arsenal as you get from one slot of the "More Resources" container selection. If you choose "More Signals..." you usually get four signal flags per slot, albeit of a random nature.  I guess picking what you want comes with a steep price.

Mmm..  No.  Using the big coupon, the most expensive Signal (ESCL) is 320 Coal.  Figure the Resources container averages 640 Coal, that's two.  The other flags (and thus the average cost) are much less.  So figure 4 flags per Resources drop on average (just based on Coal alone).  Yes, that's using coupons, but that's likely how you'll be buying Signals bundles.  So choice does have a cost, but it's not a very big cost.  Overall Signals yield of Resources may equal that of Signals & Camo.

 

OTOH, as for Coal masking the yield of Signals etc. in the other container types, yes I have a problem with that.  I still think that WG is using Coal as a way to decrease the value of the average container output.

 

Edited by iDuckman
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1 minute ago, iDuckman said:

Mmm..  No.  Using the big coupon, the most expensive Signal (ESCL) is 320 Coal.  Figure the Resources container averages 640 Coal, that's two.  The other flags (and thus the average cost) are much less.  So figure 4 flags per Resources drop on average.  Yes, that's using coupons, but that's likely how you'll be buying Signals bundles.  So choice does have a cost, but it's not a very big cost.

 

OTOH, as for Coal masking the yield of Signals etc. in the other container types, yes I have a problem with that.  I still think that WG is using Coal as a way to decrease the value of the average container output.

 

Ah, but you only get a coupon every four weeks or thereabouts.

20 Zulu for 6400 coal is 320 coal for each flag.

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I'm kind of irritated that this box doesn't only give coal/free xp, makes the signals and camo crate almost redundant.

Also irritated that the crates even drop type 1/2/5 camo, no one actually wants those.

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7 minutes ago, iDuckman said:

Mmm..  No.  Using the big coupon, the most expensive Signal (ESCL) is 320 Coal.  Figure the Resources container averages 640 Coal, that's two.  The other flags (and thus the average cost) are much less.  So figure 4 flags per Resources drop on average.  Yes, that's using coupons, but that's likely how you'll be buying Signals bundles.  So choice does have a cost, but it's not a very big cost.

 

OTOH, as for Coal masking the yield of Signals etc. in the other container types, yes I have a problem with that.  I still think that WG is using Coal as a way to decrease the value of the average container output.

 

The things we need to bear in mind are:

1) The things the resources container can drop. ESCL x 3 is one of the drops for the second slot, and the other econ flags are in the third.

2) Now that we have a coal-specific container (i.e. one which will ALWAYS drop at least one coal and might drop up to three), the amount of coal in the other routine containers may fall. Let's give it the entirety of this patch to see what sort of pattern develops.

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6 minutes ago, iDuckman said:

I still think that WG is using Coal as a way to decrease the value of the average container output.

I'm not seeing any convincing reasons to pull the More Resources lever.

Steel?  I don't play either ranked or Clan Battles, so... no real point there.  I'll be done playing this game long before I get anywhere near a reward ship.  I *might* eventually spend Coal on a ship if a good one comes along in the Arsenal, but I'm not going to buy anything else out of there. 

I'm still waiting for a productive use for Elite Ship XP that doesn't require opening my wallet.

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7 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

Ah, but you only get a coupon every four weeks or thereabouts.

20 Zulu for 6400 coal is 320 coal for each flag.

You get four coupons per month - 2x 50% + 2x 25%.  I won't be buying Signals in the Arsenal without them, so retail cost isn't relevant.  Figure an average 38% discount on an average bundle cost of 7200 = 4464 or 223 Coal per.  I'd guestimate average Coal yield of Resources at 700 Coal, so a little over 3 Signals per drop.  (PLUS a number of Econ Signals.)  I think that's competitive with the Signals & Camo.  (Not quite as good, but what you need.)

If you need more Signals, though, the equations become somewhat less favorable.

 

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7 minutes ago, Fishrokk said:

I'm not seeing any convincing reasons to pull the More Resources lever.

As I posted elsewhere, Coal is the most economical way (by using the 50% coupons) to get a small number of expensive signals.  If I can gather 6400 Coal I can get 40 ESCL Signals each month for free (plus whatever drops in containers.) 

Camos and the other Signals I haven't doped out yet, cuz I don't need any yet.

 

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2 hours ago, iDuckman said:

coupons  I won't be buying Signals in the Arsenal without them, so retail cost isn't relevant. 

Smart shopper. Patience pays off.

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Just hit my seventh container of "More Resources".  Granted, the More Signals drop would be 150 or 300 coal, but, other than one bag being 400 instead of 300, and shorting me with only three flags instead of four, it looks just like the regular More Signals containers.  I thought they were going to separate them so that More Resources gave you Resources, not a mixed bag.  Also, I found out that if you leave your containers uncollected, the next day you don't get to select More Resources, it just gives you a mixed bag.  Support keeps pawning me off saying that I should list my complaints in here instead of sending them to them.  So, here it is.  How about we do one small change, and make More Resources JUST RESOURCES???  Make Signals and Camos JUST SIGNALS AND CAMO.  Same for Credits and Consumables.  I know that seems like a no brainer, but, hey, it's not like that now, so who's missing the brain?

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I like this container. I get guaranteed coal, and when I don't, I get free XP and econ flags. YMMV but it's just what I always wanted.

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4 hours ago, MajorGeneralFU said:

Support keeps pawning me off saying that I should list my complaints in here instead of sending them to them.  So, here it is.  How about we do one small change, and make More Resources JUST RESOURCES???  Make Signals and Camos JUST SIGNALS AND CAMO.  Same for Credits and Consumables.

That's not a question for Support.  It's a question for the designers, to whom you have no access other than through this forum.

While I agree that the original Container types should revert somewhat to what they used to be, I have no problem at all with the Resources container.  Are you telling us that we really should complain about receiving and ESCL and FXP instead of a little more Coal? 

 

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4 hours ago, HazardDrake said:

I can’t buy Salem with signal flags. 

Signals get you more containers, which gives you more Coal. 

Besides, not everyone is fixated on The Witch.

 

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2 hours ago, iDuckman said:

Signals get you more containers, which gives you more Coal. 

Besides, not everyone is fixated on The Witch.

 

Not everyone, indeed. 

Black was available for awhile. They wanted steel for it though, which requires CW, so...

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8 hours ago, iDuckman said:

That's not a question for Support.  It's a question for the designers, to whom you have no access other than through this forum.

While I agree that the original Container types should revert somewhat to what they used to be, I have no problem at all with the Resources container.  Are you telling us that we really should complain about receiving and ESCL and FXP instead of a little more Coal? 

 

I'm not telling you to complain or not.  I think that resources ought to be in resources, signals and camos in signals and camo, credits in credits, and consumables in consumables.  If you like having a mixed bag, ask for a mixed bag option.  Me, I'd like it to give me Coke when I push the Coke button, not sometimes Coke and Dr. Pepper, sometimes Coke and Tea, when there are other buttons that give you Dr. Pepper and Tea.  Why make them all mixed?

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On 7/26/2018 at 12:30 AM, iDuckman said:

As I posted elsewhere, Coal is the most economical way (by using the 50% coupons) to get a small number of expensive signals.  If I can gather 6400 Coal I can get 40 ESCL Signals each month for free (plus whatever drops in containers.) 

Camos and the other Signals I haven't doped out yet, cuz I don't need any yet.

 

Simply playing the game yields those signals. There really is no need to buy them. Campaigns give lots of the rare signals.

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13 hours ago, iDuckman said:

Signals get you more containers, which gives you more Coal. 

I'm trying to figure out what this means. How is going with the "More Signals" containers going to get you more containers? It's already limited to 3 per day and they are not guaranteed to drop coal, unlike the "Resources" container.

Quote

Besides, not everyone is fixated on The Witch.

I never said they were. Once I have Salem I will almost certainly go back to the "More Signals" containers.

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