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poeticmotion

Alsace will be fine, y'all.

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People are freaking out about the Alsace nerf like they're killing the ship, especially in the comments of the article on WoWS front page about 0.7.7. It's hilarious. Look, y'all, Alsace is my favorite BB right now, and the only other BB even close is Republique. And I say this even though my beloved Alsace is getting nerfed...

love-note-2016-8.png?format=500w

Seriously, y'all. Chill. Theres only two nerfs, one of which is minor and the other one is still not that bad. 

  1. They nerfed the sigma from 1.7 to 1.6. No big deal. 1.7 already sucks, and a .1 drop isn't that bad. Also, Alsace is a short to mid range combatant. Her secondaries are OP. You lose a little efficiency at long range, but if you're playing her aggressively, it won't be a huge difference. This is mostly going to be noticed by the people who spend most of their time engaging at 20km. And even when engaging at mid to long range, Alsace has 12 guns when every other t9 has 8 or 9 guns. Slightly lower accuracy doesn't mean you're not going to get your hits, because you have 12 chances to hit with each salvo instead of 8 or 9 with other t9 BBs. And honestly, at 10-12km (which is my preferred engagement range when I can get enough support to survive it) you'll barely notice a .1 drop in sigma. Really.
     
  2. This one is a little more major, but still overblown. They nerfed the main gun reload from 30 to 32 seconds on a stock Alsace (no reload mod or adrenaline rush capt skill...but who doesn't run reload mod on Alsace, I reload in 26 seconds so it will drop to 28.) Only a 2 second difference.

    Let's do some math. At 30 seconds, bone stock with no main battery reload mod or AR or anything else, that's 39 salvoes a game maximum, assuming you fire as soon as you reload every single time in a 20-minute game. So, they nerfed reload to 32 seconds...oh noes, you'll only get off 36 (rounded down) salvoes a game even if you always fire instantly upon reload. You lost 3 salvoes, oh noes! But...in an actual game, do you fire instantly every time you reload for 20 minutes? No. So counting the time you spend before you start shooting, or when you don't have a good shot...you'll effectively lose maybe 1-2 salvoes a game, if any at all.  

    Now, this will still hurt a bit...in-game, you'll die a little more often because you didnt reload quick enough to sink the red ship before they sink you. You'll occasionally miss an opportunity for a shot that you would have had with the quicker reload. But it's not a huge difference. It's 2 seconds. I figure I'll see a 3-4% drop in my average damage at most. 

Let's face it, y'all...Alsace is a bit OP. But this is not a bad nerf. And best of all, for aggressive Alsace players this won't hurt as badly because the sigma nerf mostly hits the long-range players. For those of us who play manly-build IFHE/AFT/Manual 2ndaries brawler Alsace, this won't have as big an impact.   I was expecting an Alsace nerf, and I was worried they'd nerf her secondaries or armor or speed or turning. This is as good as I could ask for if she needed a nerf...and to be fair, for balance, she needed a nerf. 

Spoiler

You'll still get results like this if you play her right (old screenshot...didn't take a new one and this one was already in my Imgur album)

ftlZK80.png


Go forth, and sink stuff. Alsace is the honey badger. Alsace don't care about no nerf, Alsace don't give a [redacted].


 

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16 hours ago, poeticmotion said:

Let's face it, y'all...Alsace is a bit OP. But this is not a bad nerf. And best of all, for aggressive Alsace players this won't hurt as badly because the sigma nerf mostly hits the long-range players. For those of us who play manly-build IFHE/AFT/Manual 2ndaries brawler Alsace, this won't have as big an impact.   I was expecting an Alsace nerf, and I was worried they'd nerf her secondaries or armor or speed or turning. This is as good as I could ask for if she needed a nerf...and to be fair, for balance, she needed a nerf. 
 

Yep. Truth is she was a bit OP. I play the same manly "Come at me bro" build, so she's going to be as enjoyable as she always was...

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13 minutes ago, poeticmotion said:

People are freaking out about the Alsace nerf like they're killing the ship, especially in the comments of the article on WoWS front page about 0.7.7. It's hilarious. Look, y'all, Alsace is my favorite BB right now, and the only other BB even close is Republique. And I say this even though my beloved Alsace is getting nerfed...

love-note-2016-8.png?format=500w

Seriously, y'all. Chill. Theres only two nerfs, one of which is minor and the other one is still not that bad. 

  1. They nerfed the sigma from 1.7 to 1.6. No big deal. 1.7 already sucks, and a .1 drop isn't that bad. Also, Alsace is a short to mid range combatant. Her secondaries are OP. You lose a little efficiency at long range, but if you're playing her aggressively, it won't be a huge difference. This is mostly going to be noticed by the people who spend most of their time engaging at 20km. And even when engaging at mid to long range, Alsace has 12 guns when every other t9 has 8 or 9 guns. Slightly lower accuracy doesn't mean you're not going to get your hits, because you have 12 chances to hit with each salvo instead of 8 or 9 with other t9 BBs. And honestly, at 10-12km (which is my preferred engagement range when I can get enough support to survive it) you'll barely notice a .1 drop in sigma. Really.
     
  2. This one is a little more major, but still overblown. They nerfed the main gun reload from 30 to 32 seconds on a stock Alsace (no reload mod or adrenaline rush capt skill...but who doesn't run reload mod on Alsace, I reload in 26 seconds so it will drop to 28.) Only a 2 second difference.

    Let's do some math. At 30 seconds, bone stock with no main battery reload mod or AR or anything else, that's 39 salvoes a game maximum, assuming you fire as soon as you reload every single time in a 20-minute game. So, they nerfed reload to 32 seconds...oh noes, you'll only get off 36 (rounded down) salvoes a game even if you always fire instantly upon reload. You lost 3 salvoes, oh noes! But...in an actual game, do you fire instantly every time you reload for 20 minutes? No. So counting the time you spend before you start shooting, or when you don't have a good shot...you'll effectively lose maybe 1-2 salvoes a game, if any at all.  

    Now, this will still hurt a bit...in-game, you'll die a little more often because you didnt reload quick enough to sink the red ship before they sink you. You'll occasionally miss an opportunity for a shot that you would have had with the quicker reload. But it's not a huge difference. It's 2 seconds. I figure I'll see a 3-4% drop in my average damage at most. 

Let's face it, y'all...Alsace is a bit OP. But this is not a bad nerf. And best of all, for aggressive Alsace players this won't hurt as badly because the sigma nerf mostly hits the long-range players. For those of us who play manly-build IFHE/AFT/Manual 2ndaries brawler Alsace, this won't have as big an impact.   I was expecting an Alsace nerf, and I was worried they'd nerf her secondaries or armor or speed or turning. This is as good as I could ask for if she needed a nerf...and to be fair, for balance, she needed a nerf. 

  Reveal hidden contents

You'll still get results like this if you play her right (old screenshot...didn't take a new one and this one was already in my Imgur album)

ftlZK80.png


Go forth, and sink stuff. Alsace is the honey badger. Alsace don't care about no nerf, Alsace don't give a [redacted].


 

Not if I get up close and personal with my Akizuki lol

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1 hour ago, torpsRus said:

Not if I get up close and personal with my Akizuki lol

Not really sure what that has to do with the OP, but OK...

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15 hours ago, poeticmotion said:

Not really sure what that has to do with the OP, but OK...

@poeticmotionlook me up after the nerf, we can div Alsaces and bash stuff together...

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Just now, poeticmotion said:

Not really sure what that has to do with the OP, but OK...

You didn't get it, the post has everything to do with it.  You said the Alscae will be fine right.  Well wrong if I get close enough with my Akizuki guns.  I'll enjoy shredding it with IFHE and the buff tomorrow LOL.

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1 minute ago, torpsRus said:

You didn't get it, the post has everything to do with it.  You said the Alscae will be fine right.  Well wrong if I get close enough with my Akizuki guns.  I'll enjoy shredding it with IFHE and the buff tomorrow LOL.

I was referring to the overall state of the ship in comparison with its peers. I wasn't referring to a 1v1 with a forum member I've never heard of before. But, given your historical performance with Akizuki I'm not worried about that either. Enjoy your Akizuki, I guess. 

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Shooting guns is fun. Shooting guns more frequently is more fun. Shooting guns that are accurate is fun, unless you're a potato.

WG may be balancing Alsace but they're doing so in a non-fun way which will reduce her reward.

I already dislike the ship with her idiotproof high skill floor, this just hits the skill ceiling as hard.

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2 minutes ago, mofton said:

Shooting guns is fun. Shooting guns more frequently is more fun. Shooting guns that are accurate is fun, unless you're a potato.

WG may be balancing Alsace but they're doing so in a non-fun way which will reduce her reward.

I already dislike the ship with her idiotproof high skill floor, this just hits the skill ceiling as hard.

It's a 2-second reload nerf and a miniscule accuracy nerf. It will have a minimal effect on aggressive Alsace captains who habitually engage at Alsace's optimal 10-11km engagement range. 

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I respect your points, but this doesn't make the situation less fishy.

I remember when they were testing La Galissonière (tech-tree) and De Grasse (premium ship lauched at the time to help players grind commanders), both french cruisers at tier 6. To make the premium one more "interesting" the ones responsible for balancing the ships nerfed the tech-tree ship RoF and buffed the premium. Some CCs at the time commented that it gave them a bad taste in their mouths. Some patches after they reduced the reload from La Galissonière.

Something really similar is happening with Jean Bart and Alsace at tier 9.

If i get an answer or something i will be happy to expatiate more. :fish_book:

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17 minutes ago, Cpt_JM_Nascimento said:

I respect your points, but this doesn't make the situation less fishy.

I remember when they were testing La Galissonière (tech-tree) and De Grasse (premium ship lauched at the time to help players grind commanders), both french cruisers at tier 6. To make the premium one more "interesting" the ones responsible for balancing the ships nerfed the tech-tree ship RoF and buffed the premium. Some CCs at the time commented that it gave them a bad taste in their mouths. Some patches after they reduced the reload from La Galissonière.

Something really similar is happening with Jean Bart and Alsace at tier 9.

If i get an answer or something i will be happy to expatiate more. :fish_book:

 

Yeah, I think you're pretty close to the situation. WG have a tendency to "balance" silver ship before the introduction of some premium to encourage people buying their product. I faced several Alsace and the only annoying thing about this ship was the amount of shell in the air. But even that isn't game breaking. 381mm guns aren't really effective against Roon, Hindenburg, Prinz Eugen, Des Moines ... 

 

I don't know if Alsace need a nerf, I don't have unlocked this ship yet, but Jean Bart is definitely meh for a T9 BB which is probably a part of the reason behind Alsace nerf.

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Its outperforming the other T9 BBs by a fair margin. A tweak is justified. No it cant overmatch 27mm cruiser bows but its still 12 excellent shells. The grind was anything but.  If Republic didn't have such a jump in secondary capability I think I would of just stayed at T9. It was that good.

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10 minutes ago, AlcatrazNC said:

 

Yeah, I think you're pretty close to the situation. WG have a tendency to "balance" silver ship before the introduction of some premium to encourage people buying their product. I faced several Alsace and the only annoying thing about this ship was the amount of shell in the air. But even that isn't game breaking. 381mm guns aren't really effective against Roon, Hindenburg, Prinz Eugen, Des Moines ... 

 

I don't know if Alsace need a nerf, I don't have unlocked this ship yet, but Jean Bart is definitely meh for a T9 BB which is probably a part of the reason behind Alsace nerf.

The Alsace is an oddball.  Great speed,  good armor,  amazing secondaries,  meh main battery made up for by having so many guns.  That being said,  those 'meh' guns are putting out three to four more shells per salvo than any other T9 so on the targets they are effective against,  they are nasty.  It also makes fishing for citadels a lot easier since you are covering such a wide area.  That also goes for the amount of HE and fires she can set with both all those main guns and with her 152 secondaries. She's well suited for bow tanking but she can also run away if she needs to.

But you summed up my issues with the nerf perfectly.  Just feels like she is being nerfed to make another ship look better.

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1 hour ago, poeticmotion said:

I was referring to the overall state of the ship in comparison with its peers. I wasn't referring to a 1v1 with a forum member I've never heard of before. But, given your historical performance with Akizuki I'm not worried about that either. Enjoy your Akizuki, I guess. 

lol This is why I love you at times. lol

You and I may or may not have seen eye to eye on things, can't recall to be honest, but this right here always gives me a chuckle.

I'm out of +'s unfortunately, but /patonback and o7.

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Pomme de Terre Trait

Alsace to the rescue!

Aiming iz hard make aiming easier!

Don’t worry, with 1.7 sigma just aim in the general direction, it’s all luck after that

Aiming iz still too hard

Erm have high shell velocity minimizing the amount you need to predict?

No, aiming iz hard y u no understand

Fine, have powerful arbitrarily long range secondaries so all you have to do is ctrl+click on the ship which is hurting wuggums

Where dat torpedo come from, nerf DD, y I no see it?

Erm, have a 44% TDS then if you’ll take the odd hit

Sometimes hit and does no damage, is too hard, wot is ‘rickochay’?

Oh your AP… well… have the same fire chance as the 16in of the Montana on the same barrels at T9… hope you see happy-wibbon

No, cannot dodge OP torpedo, am battleship make best ship!

OK, with speed boost you will turn well and dodge the nasty-wasty torpedo-wedoes

I red book, I crossed the tee! Why my health go bye-bye?

Turtleback for you then Mns. Broadsiding Scrub

Planes are bad, hate plens!

Have really good AA then… don’t worry about grouping with the team or anything, just wander off. The glue’s over there by the way.

I went a bad place now the square in the bottom right corner is angry and team mate says something about ‘cap’ make teleport!

Here’s a consumable to make you the fastest BB in your tier then, enjoy the 34.5kt!

 

*Actual skilled player*

Stuff you mate. To balance this ship we made you ultra-vulnerable to no-skill HE spam with low HP and no distributed armor whatsoever.

*Can aim*

Heh, autobounce off cruisers lawl. DM and Hindy are the most common T10’s and now we’ve extended it to T8 with Balti and the Germans lolololo.

Edited by mofton
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Alsace nerf is proof that the decisions which will make the greatest amount of players happy often aren't the most profitable. A 'ruler' must maintain the impression of making the people happy, but if he always follows that route of thinking it's a quick trip to his demise because he'll lose the authority he maintains through fear, divine justification, or whatever, because then his subjects will no longer serve him. You do have to throw some crumbs from time to time to give you subjects something to be grateful for, so that they'll wish for more while letting you remain in power. Machiavellian thinking not only applies to states, but also to any relationship resembling a group / individual in control and a group of people that depend on him / them.

   If they don't nerf Alsace, we'll clearly have no reason to serve WG by buying a clearly inferior premium ship. That means one less money-making opportunity for them. Who knows? If in the future they do the same to my 15-gun princess for a similar, but inferior premium ship, it will be inching closer to my last straw for this game.

   I'm saying this and I don't even play Alsace / high tier. She's fine. Her stats are this way because she hasn't been out for nearly as long as the other battleship lines. Give it time and they'll drop down to more reasonable values, though still top of the pack for Tier 9 battleships due to the nature of her gameplay and her characteristics. She is the brawler of Tier 9. Iowa and Izumo obviously aren't close range brawlers, nor is Lion. FDG is a turd of the line with only 8 guns.

Edited by Grand_Viceroy_Zhou_Ziyu

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They told us Konig was "too OP" as well so they nerfed it's sigma and now it is a shell of it's former self. I suspect the same will happen with Alsace.

Neither of the 2 ships was/is OP and in need of a nerf. They were just good and fun. Apparently that is not allowed.

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I used a manly build and still had like a 47% win rate in this ship. It just didn't click and the nerf is the nail in the coffin for me. I never saw how this ship was OP is the slightest at all. 380mm guns, bad dispersion and 32mm of armor was balanced to me. Great reasoning OP but I am selling the ship. Hope it continues to work for you though. 

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Three games in since the nerf. 1-2 and poor numbers because both losses were quick landslides  (had a terrible run of teams yesterday, three games with deliberate teamkillers and two with sub-35% CVs vs unicums in an 11-game loss streak :/ ), but she feels no different.  As I figured, the main battery reload nerf is mildly noticeable but the sigma nerf really isn't. I'll see how she does when I have a large enough sample size of normal-length games to have a more informed opinion but so far i am pretty sure my prediction is correct,  she'll be fine. 

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On 7/25/2018 at 1:27 AM, ksix said:

Its outperforming the other T9 BBs by a fair margin. A tweak is justified. No it cant overmatch 27mm cruiser bows but its still 12 excellent shells. The grind was anything but.  If Republic didn't have such a jump in secondary capability I think I would of just stayed at T9. It was that good.

It's not though. It has the same stats with the same games played as the Lion - where is the Lion nerf?

Mushashi is demolishing T9 stats by a huge margin - should it be nerfed too?

Alsace and Lion have 250k games played. The older T9s all have more than 1 million. Alsace/Lion numbers are going to regress to the mean with more potato games played.

 

Edited by exray0
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29 minutes ago, poeticmotion said:

Three games in since the nerf. 1-2 and poor numbers because both losses were quick landslides  (had a terrible run of teams yesterday, three games with deliberate teamkillers and two with sub-35% CVs vs unicums in an 11-game loss streak :/ ), but she feels no different.  As I figured, the main battery reload nerf is mildly noticeable but the sigma nerf really isn't. I'll see how she does when I have a large enough sample size of normal-length games to have a more informed opinion but so far i am pretty sure my prediction is correct,  she'll be fine. 

My experience with it since the nerf is the exact opposite. The sigma nerf is most definitely noticeable. 

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17 hours ago, AdmiralThunder said:

My experience with it since the nerf is the exact opposite. The sigma nerf is most definitely noticeable. 

Yes, but what is your typical engagement range? It is noticeable at long range,  yes. It is less noticeable inside 12km, which is where i try to be. The only way the sigma nerf hurt is a little bit of versatility; in the really campy high tier games where I struggle to push up to optimum 10-12km engagement range, it's harder to hit shots. One if the reasons I've enjoyed French BBs so much is they aren't as handicapped at range as German BBs, which makes a huge difference given how campy high tier matches can be when you cant find a survivable way to close the distance. But I'd say 75% of my salvoes are inside 2ndary range, and the sigma nerf is not noticeable at that range.

She's more specialized as a brawler now as opposed to the jack of all trades she was before,  and that is unfortunate for some and noticeable even for those of us who play her as a brawler, but she's still hella fun.

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