Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
Gneisenau013

Tactical Tip Tuesday - Battleship Formations

24 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

1,113
[WGA]
Administrator, Developers
895 posts
5,909 battles

image.png

Battleship captains - what's the most effective formation to take on the enemy fleet?

I find battleships that move forward together side-by-side are able to push fairly far into the other team and cause them to scatter.

Once ships are scattered, they are easier to chase down and sink. 

Battling side by side also provides mutual support and the angling avoids fatal broadside hits from main battery guns or even torpedoes.

Big guns of the fleet, how do you form up with other battleships or fleet vessels for maximum butt kicking power?

"All problems become smaller if you don't dodge them but confront them." - William "Bull" Halsey, US Navy

#tacticaltiptuesday

#anchorsaweigh

1015450271.png

  • Cool 1
  • Bad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
598
[OPRAH]
[OPRAH]
Beta Testers
3,849 posts
12,582 battles

It would be nice if we could do this on a frequent basis but the nature of randomly picked players each with a mind of their own such niceties are hard to come by! I did however experience a humiliating defeat on Two Brothers map. The opponents formed a perfect line of battle bow to stern and executed both their attack and defense flawlessly. It was a beautiful thing seeing my team and finally myself get dispatched one by one as the opponent went from cap to cap in short order.

By the way this was in co op! Go figure. 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
15 posts
10,338 battles
12 minutes ago, Gneisenau013 said:

 

I find battleships that move forward together side-by-side are able to push fairly far into the other team and cause them to scatter.

 

1015450271.png

This is really the worst way to play imo. Two battleships next to each other have the same shot. It’s easy for the entire team to angle against both battleships. Furthermore, you are projecting your inflouence over the same squares.  Being next to each other also offers no defensive bonus. 

If you were 3 or 4 squares away from your battleship companion, one of you would have much better shots.  You could cover more map and force your opponents to swing their turrets to fire at both of you.

The fallacy is that you are harder to sink sailing next to each other. Totally not true. Much easier to sink.  

  • Cool 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
198
[STW]
Members
658 posts
4,398 battles
8 minutes ago, XiaoXiaoNi said:

This is really the worst way to play imo. Two battleships next to each other have the same shot. It’s easy for the entire team to angle against both battleships. Furthermore, you are projecting your inflouence over the same squares.  Being next to each other also offers no defensive bonus. 

If you were 3 or 4 squares away from your battleship companion, one of you would have much better shots.  You could cover more map and force your opponents to swing their turrets to fire at both of you.

The fallacy is that you are harder to sink sailing next to each other. Totally not true. Much easier to sink.  

I agree with this, it's better to force crossfires.  Your target might angle to you, but that means he has to give up shots to someone else in the process.  What helps as a BB is when the other BB are in similar positions of power relative to caps or hostiles to force them to choose who to attack, and random players are generally not good at focusing fire if multiple targets of similar ranges are present.  This doesn't necessarily mean be right there next to each other.

Edited by Deviathan
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[AR15]
Beta Testers
172 posts
3,052 battles

Favorite thing that I have done with multiple BBs was to create a battle line and all concentrate fire on one target, and repeat as needed. Lots of fun at low to mid tier games.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
97
[FAILD]
Members
427 posts
1,608 battles
1 hour ago, Gneisenau013 said:

find battleships that move forward together side-by-side are able to push fairly far into the other team and cause them to scatter.

I only agree with this if both battleships are communicating effectively to focus fire targets down more quickly. If they are sailing together and blasting seperate targets then no.. 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,720
[TBW]
Members
6,395 posts
12,011 battles

Randoms the best thing you can do is point out your targets and hope the team listens. I can't even get my Clan to work together when div'ed up. Random teams are even harder to get to work as a team.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,900
[CNO]
[CNO]
Members
3,833 posts
13,050 battles

I prefer a battle LINE for TACTICAL engagements.  Having ships parallel takes half of one's tactical maneuver space.   This goes for escort ships as well.  Please keep a BBs port and starboard turning options open.  This is even more important than in real life due to game compression and threat compression.  Give your BBs the ability to maneuver. 

A stagger line is also effective as long as the maneuver mantra is sustained.

As for STRATEGIC engagement, two battle lines separated in a pincer movement is best.  This maximizes broadside targeting opportunities for one line or the other.

Of course, actually making the above work requires a good amount of coordination.  So in my experience, it's often limited to two or three ships.    

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
598
[OPRAH]
[OPRAH]
Beta Testers
3,849 posts
12,582 battles

@Gneisenau013 Advice is sound and each of us are free to agree, disagree, expound upon our why we feel as we do and also to express our own idea for a tactic.

However his advice here is not the actual point of this message. The point is that we need to work together for a win rather than scatter willy nilly and get picked off piecemeal by a better organized opponent. This is one thing I feel we can all agree on since everyone of us has witnessed the sound defeat of a team that scatters and I venture that everyone of us has been on the losing side perhaps 50% of the time.

As I stated above being placed on a team of 12 random players and expecting successful cooperation by more than 2 or 3 is a pipedream. However I and perhaps you have been on teams where that cooperative group magically becomes the majority resulting in a win or if not a very close loss.

So be that Captain! Your team mates will appreciate it and your opponents will be shocked.

That is all. Carry on. 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
15 posts
10,338 battles
2 hours ago, CAPTMUDDXX said:

The point is that we need to work together for a win rather than scatter willy nilly and get picked off piecemeal by a better organized opponent. 

Ya, the thing is, your opponent is never better organized than you. Your both random teams of 12. The level of organization of your team is really about the same as your opponents over 1,000’s of games.  As you admitted, even if your vocal about it, u can only convince 2-3 boats to vaguely do something that resembles what you want. 

The thing you can control is where you put your ship to maximize your influence on the battle. Next to your battleship buddy is bad. 4 squares over is better.  

Additionally, battleships aren’t really focus fire bots. You shouldn’t be slamming rounds into Yamato bows because, “We need to focus fire!” You should be trying to create good shots for yourself and your team by positioning yourself correctly on the map and hitting the shots. 

Let me put it this way, the difference between the players with the highest win rates and average players isn’t teamwork.  Go play a random with OPG or ZR and see if they ever touch the chat box.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
598
[OPRAH]
[OPRAH]
Beta Testers
3,849 posts
12,582 battles

@XiaoXiaoNi I know vocal or chat messages rarely convince even one team mate to coordinate much less the majority of the team. Refer to my statement that AI Bots actually formed a line of battle and summarily  whooped a team of eight humans. If bots can do that so can we. It shouldn't be that hard for people to realize that forming up close around their strongest ship and working toward a cap point or enemy base can and does work. I see a semblance of it in random where 1 to 4 ships go off in one direction and the rest the other only to find the few run into 1/2 or more of the opponents the larger group is to far away to help them and the remaining enemy ships show up between the two groups delaying the larger group from going to help. The smaller group gets whacked and the enemy closes in putting ones team in a cross fire trap.

The OP likely knows more about strategy and tactics than most of us so it may be wise to lend an ear and learn.

That is all. Carry on.

  • Cool 1
  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
689
[BASIN]
[BASIN]
Members
2,041 posts
1 hour ago, XiaoXiaoNi said:

Ya, the thing is, your opponent is never better organized than you. Your both random teams of 12. The level of organization of your team is really about the same as your opponents over 1,000’s of games.  As you admitted, even if your vocal about it, u can only convince 2-3 boats to vaguely do something that resembles what you want. 

The thing you can control is where you put your ship to maximize your influence on the battle. Next to your battleship buddy is bad. 4 squares over is better.  

Additionally, battleships aren’t really focus fire bots. You shouldn’t be slamming rounds into Yamato bows because, “We need to focus fire!” You should be trying to create good shots for yourself and your team by positioning yourself correctly on the map and hitting the shots. 

Let me put it this way, the difference between the players with the highest win rates and average players isn’t teamwork.  Go play a random with OPG or ZR and see if they ever touch the chat box.

Unless you or they are divisioned up with friends who work well as a team that's the only way

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
432
[FAE]
Members
2,160 posts
2,621 battles
5 hours ago, Gneisenau013 said:

image.png

Battleship captains - what's the most effective formation to take on the enemy fleet?

I find battleships that move forward together side-by-side are able to push fairly far into the other team and cause them to scatter.

Once ships are scattered, they are easier to chase down and sink. 

Battling side by side also provides mutual support and the angling avoids fatal broadside hits from main battery guns or even torpedoes.

Big guns of the fleet, how do you form up with other battleships or fleet vessels for maximum butt kicking power?

"All problems become smaller if you don't dodge them but confront them." - William "Bull" Halsey, US Navy

#tacticaltiptuesday

#anchorsaweigh

1015450271.png

@Gneisenau013

Can you provide supporting evidence for this 2 BB claim? 

Also, what grounds do we have for a BB formation existing? Generally, one would expect that you want 1-2 DDs, a cruiser and a BB for a push, but this is a forward facing deployment, nor does it move in formation. 

From what I see of Flamu/Flambass clan battles, they preferred one highly skilled player (not common in randoms) alone on a flank in a cruiser. And BBs in the center. 

 

When I've seen 2 BBs on a side work is when you really want to push a flank. having a GK and a Monty (behind like 3 other ships) lets you put serious pressure on your opponent's BBs. Though that's again possibly mitigated by their 2 or 3 BBs focus firing your team. 

 

I think this conversation has a questionable foundation...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
432
[FAE]
Members
2,160 posts
2,621 battles
1 hour ago, XiaoXiaoNi said:

Ya, the thing is, your opponent is never better organized than you. Your both random teams of 12. The level of organization of your team is really about the same as your opponents over 1,000’s of games.  As you admitted, even if your vocal about it, u can only convince 2-3 boats to vaguely do something that resembles what you want. 

The thing you can control is where you put your ship to maximize your influence on the battle. Next to your battleship buddy is bad. 4 squares over is better.  

Additionally, battleships aren’t really focus fire bots. You shouldn’t be slamming rounds into Yamato bows because, “We need to focus fire!” You should be trying to create good shots for yourself and your team by positioning yourself correctly on the map and hitting the shots. 

Let me put it this way, the difference between the players with the highest win rates and average players isn’t teamwork.  Go play a random with OPG or ZR and see if they ever touch the chat box.

Yep honestly. I bet OPG and ZR land consistently 150% better damage and or higher accuracy than I do. Its Aim first in randoms. Teamwork in Team play. 

I put myself into training rooms for aim. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3
[BTLST]
Members
8 posts
3,896 battles
5 hours ago, XiaoXiaoNi said:

This is really the worst way to play imo. Two battleships next to each other have the same shot. It’s easy for the entire team to angle against both battleships. Furthermore, you are projecting your inflouence over the same squares.  Being next to each other also offers no defensive bonus. 

If you were 3 or 4 squares away from your battleship companion, one of you would have much better shots.  You could cover more map and force your opponents to swing their turrets to fire at both of you.

The fallacy is that you are harder to sink sailing next to each other. Totally not true. Much easier to sink.  

 I  am not sure if I agree or not.  You do have a point but with the right team and the right communication I think lining up to do a push might work.  I normally play the Alabama, I find it a difficult but sound  ship and I get a little annoying when chat is silent and we go off without any plan.  Teamwork is very important but I don't often teamwork.  When I have, my experience is that teamwork works. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
102
[PVE]
Members
507 posts
4,320 battles

I try to join another BB if I can find one willing to support our DDs and cruisers. I like to be close-ish so we can maneuver and dodge without ramming each other.

Had a great game like this last night. 2 BBs supporting 2 CAs and a DD and we picked off about 3 or 4 reds before their CV got done steamrolling our other flank and proceeded to disassemble us as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
15 posts
10,338 battles
54 minutes ago, Irelands_32 said:

 I  am not sure if I agree or not.  You do have a point but with the right team and the right communication I think lining up to do a push might work.

What tactical advantage does lining up give you though. Why would you even pursue the strategy?

Let’s get closer together so we eat more torpedoes and people can bow tank both of us. Let’s get closer together so we can lose map control and shoot at kiters. 

The only advantage of playing next to someone is they may eat some damage that you would have otherwise taken and you can shoot at the same target.

The main difference between good players and bad players in the game is their ability to defend themselves.  This is why tier X is uncomfortable for many. This is also why bad players are arguing for this stick together strategy. “I don’t know how to survive and deal damage without overwhelming force advantage. I better stick with the group.”

Furthermore, as I have said before, focus fire is not really a battleship thing. You should take shots of opportunity in battleships. Not blast away at the closest target in front of you. 

1 hour ago, BlailBlerg said:

Yep honestly. I bet OPG and ZR land consistently 150% better damage and or higher accuracy than I do. 

Actually, Main Battery Hit Rates generally fall between 25-35% for tier X bb’s. The lower end being people who are really terrible shots. Most people fall between 27-33%, with unicums at 34-37%.  It’s not a huge difference. They may be targeting better spots on your ship or out positioning your for more large salvos. However, in the end it’s still an RNG dispersion based game. They are not landing dramatically more shells than you are. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,296 posts
21,024 battles

Most of the random games I play the BB's look like a Benny Hill skit with the BB's chasing the skirts around in slow motion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,826
[ARRGG]
[ARRGG]
Members
5,770 posts

Aye Aye Sir your tactics are stellar. 

This only proves your greatness as a leader.

I will follow you but watch it my aim is bad, old age got my eyes crossed.

Its not your leadership it is my depth perception.

Carry On 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
432
[FAE]
Members
2,160 posts
2,621 battles
21 hours ago, XiaoXiaoNi said:

What tactical advantage does lining up give you though. Why would you even pursue the strategy?

Let’s get closer together so we eat more torpedoes and people can bow tank both of us. Let’s get closer together so we can lose map control and shoot at kiters. 

The only advantage of playing next to someone is they may eat some damage that you would have otherwise taken and you can shoot at the same target.

The main difference between good players and bad players in the game is their ability to defend themselves.  This is why tier X is uncomfortable for many. This is also why bad players are arguing for this stick together strategy. “I don’t know how to survive and deal damage without overwhelming force advantage. I better stick with the group.”

Furthermore, as I have said before, focus fire is not really a battleship thing. You should take shots of opportunity in battleships. Not blast away at the closest target in front of you. 

Actually, Main Battery Hit Rates generally fall between 25-35% for tier X bb’s. The lower end being people who are really terrible shots. Most people fall between 27-33%, with unicums at 34-37%.  It’s not a huge difference. They may be targeting better spots on your ship or out positioning your for more large salvos. However, in the end it’s still an RNG dispersion based game. They are not landing dramatically more shells than you are. 

A 5% increase though is like 30% more efficiency. So if I'm averaging about 90k dmg right now, IF the hit quality doesn't get better, then that's easily 120k to 130k avg for Unicum.  Now that's when you're really talking bout at least contributing a ship and a half or two ships worth of damage. And I think my damage is generally okay (a lot of cruiser and dd hunting) 

Also generally, also right: its the quality of the hit that also counts. Rarely do my frontal shots do good damage. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
15 posts
10,338 battles
1 hour ago, BlailBlerg said:

A 5% increase though is like 30% more efficiency. So if I'm averaging about 90k dmg right now, IF the hit quality doesn't get better, then that's easily 120k to 130k avg for Unicum.  

I’m not sure how it plays out in game.  Think it through with me.  Let’s say you fire a total of 200 shells for a given game just to keep the numbers round.

It’s not a terrible approximation really. Cut off 2 minutes at the beginning of the game and maybe 8 minutes at the end. 10 fighting minutes,  2 Monty salvos of 12 per minute. 240 shells. We held our shot a couple times while we were moving around. Whatever, 200 shells per game.

A guy landing 30% of his shots gets 60 shell hits while the 25% guy landed 50. Let’s say 5 of those are overpens, eaten by a module or shatters. The other 5 are pens. 

I have a hard time believing the difference between a really poor BB player (25%) and an average one (30%) is the 5 extra pens. I think the difference is the quality of shot taken.

Which circles back to the original point, you have significantly worse shots if your right next to a friendly BB.  If you space the map better, you will have better shooting opportunities. This is the difference between good and bad players. Not the 5 shells. 

What say you?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,968
[SYN]
Members
14,439 posts
10,418 battles

The best formation is line across and making sure that you don't have people overextend in relation to where the line is.

Ideally, you want to semi-encircle them by herding them off the edges.

Edited by MrDeaf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×