Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
crazyferret23777

Question about Amagi?

20 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Members
233 posts
4,631 battles

I've seen people talk about using a full secondary build with the Amagi and that they had good success with it but my question is how feasible is it? I would love to test it in the training room but my Amagi cmdr would have to be totally respected. With her great guns it sounds like something that might be fun. Please give me your opinions fellow WOW's players. TIA

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,106
[SPTR]
Members
3,479 posts
5,736 battles

Honestly, IMO people who claim that they "did well" with secondary amagi is either very very lucky or very very dumb.
Let's get this straight, Amagi is not an pro active pusher. Thin armor belt, sluggish turning radius, 32mm plating everywhere... don't mistake me, you can brawl, especially with your turtleback, but you have to make sure who you brawl against is alone. Otherwise you melt like butter.

Secondly, if you want to use your secondaries, you got to brawl to make any use of it at all, like really close range. Amagi's base secondary range is abysmal, and even when fully upgraded, she's no Bismarck nor Tirpitz.

Last but not least, the compostition of the secondary batteries on the Amagi is quite terrible. Her suite of secondaries consists of 4 dual IJN 127mm and a bunch of single 140mm barbette guns, the 127mm receieves no bonus HE penetration and have a slow firing rate, while the 140mm shoots AP and do little more than making bangs and flashes as an eye candy for you in front of the computer screen. For them to work, you need an enemy cruiser, at very close range, broadside. And unfortunately, most cruisers that you are going to meet have torpedoes...

Verdict: not worth it.

Edited by The_first_harbinger
  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
388
[C-CA]
[C-CA]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
1,423 posts
3,367 battles

Amagi... Secondary build.

Amagi, one of the prototypical "sit back and snipe" BBs, secondary build.

Amagi, a standard non-gimmicky ship from a tech tree whose secondaries tend toward the lower end of "meh", secondary build.

 

Who has suggested this, and how many drugs were they on when they said it? And this is me, the guy who considered secondary speccing his NELSON, the guy who put AFT on his Cleveland before CE because he liked seeing close-quarters expert medals pop up in Operation Cherry Blossom, the guy who took one look at Massachusetts and thought "Yes! We should build a whole USN Standard Battleship line around this concept!", talking here. Was it Hyt? Were they on Hyt? They had to be on Hyt. Only explanation for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
496
[FML]
Members
1,767 posts
10,138 battles

I have seen Nagato secondary builds in the context of T7 ranked, which were moderately effective at that time.  However, I've not heard an Amagi secondary build.  Personally, I'd try to keep my distance in the Amagi - it is best at 12-14km range as its armour is relatively weak. 

Dont rush in
Snipe
???
Profit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
351
[ZIPPO]
Members
1,558 posts
3,539 battles

I remember people suggesting this a long time ago before the German line came along, since then not so much though

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
388
[C-CA]
[C-CA]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
1,423 posts
3,367 battles
10 minutes ago, UltimateNewbie said:

I have seen Nagato secondary builds in the context of T7 ranked, which were moderately effective at that time.  However, I've not heard an Amagi secondary build.  Personally, I'd try to keep my distance in the Amagi - it is best at 12-14km range as its armour is relatively weak. 

Dont rush in
Snipe
???
Profit

Nagato I can definitely see as a better possibility. I still wouldn't recommend it unless you want to eat a face full of Gneisenau or Scharnhorst torps, but I can see it.

Amagi? Here there be Bismarcks, that's no good man.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
288
[SCCC]
Members
705 posts
5,503 battles

Its not worth it. Spec into full survival mode. With todays HE spam meta, survival is key and the idea of "the longer you stay alive, the better you will do" is 100% accurate. (That is unless you are a complete potato sailing around the entire map edge sniping in a BB, sailing around the entire flank in a DD only to chase the red push from the rear attempting to torp targets who are sailing full on away from you, sailing around the entire flank in a DD going "CV hunting" in the first minutes of the match or pushing all the way through the flank just to chase ships back into their spawn rather than staying central to take map control and caps.)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,460
[-K-]
Members
5,295 posts
9,113 battles
1 hour ago, The_first_harbinger said:

Honestly, IMO people who claim that they "did well" with secondary amagi is either very very lucky or very very dumb.
Let's get this straight, Amagi is not an pro active pusher. Thin armor belt, sluggish turning radius, 32mm plating everywhere... don't mistake me, you can brawl, especially with your turtleback, but you have to make sure who you brawl against is alone. Otherwise you melt like butter.

Secondly, if you want to use your secondaries, you got to brawl to make any use of it at all, like really close range. Amagi's base secondary range is abysmal, and even when fully upgraded, she's no Bismarck nor Tirpitz.

Last but not least, the compostition of the secondary batteries on the Amagi is quite terrible. Her suite of secondaries consists of 4 dual IJN 127mm and a bunch of single 140mm barbette guns, the 127mm receieves no bonus HE penetration and have a slow firing rate, while the 140mm shoots AP and do little more than making bangs and flashes as an eye candy for you in front of the computer screen. For them to work, you need an enemy cruiser, at very close range, broadside. And unfortunately, most cruisers that you are going to meet have torpedoes...

Verdict: not worth it.

So much this.

Why waste valuable captain skills and modules on a psuedo-secondary build when you can invest in her excellent gun accuracy?  I've brawled in Amagi and have had success, but more out of necessity rather than preference.

Bottom line: don't waste your effort on a secondary build Amagi.  There are other battleships that do the same job so much better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
236
[WOLF2]
Members
891 posts
7,244 battles
1 hour ago, Ace_04 said:

So much this.

Why waste valuable captain skills and modules on a psuedo-secondary build when you can invest in her excellent gun accuracy?  I've brawled in Amagi and have had success, but more out of necessity rather than preference.

Bottom line: don't waste your effort on a secondary build Amagi.  There are other battleships that do the same job so much better.

Yeah... I'm one of those guys.   Went to Shipcomrade for guidance.    With the Captain Skills section, the top-voted (by a lot) config is this secondary build.    Didn't recognize it was a troll at the time.    Waiting for a zero-cost respec to reset his skills.   LOL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
348
[H-W-C]
Members
1,262 posts
3,355 battles

I actually did that. Because I didn't feel like respeccing my Nagato captain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,460
[-K-]
Members
5,295 posts
9,113 battles
17 minutes ago, warpath_33 said:

I actually did that. Because I didn't feel like respeccing my Nagato captain.

But even Nagato isn't a good secondary build platform.  None of the IJN tech tree battleships really are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Modder
1,497 posts
2,448 battles

Back when the IJN and USN were the only game in town you you could do it for the lolz, but those days are long past.  Both Nagato and Amagi can actually shred soft skin cruisers and cans pretty quickly if they get too close but building specifically for secondaries isn't efficient.  

 

At most I might spec AFT and fly a Mike Yankee Soxisix if available.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,382
[HINON]
Members
9,035 posts
52 minutes ago, DiddleDum said:

Yeah... I'm one of those guys.   Went to Shipcomrade for guidance.    With the Captain Skills section, the top-voted (by a lot) config is this secondary build.    Didn't recognize it was a troll at the time.    Waiting for a zero-cost respec to reset his skills.   LOL.

 

Unfortunately, there are a bunch of those troll builds on there that have been upvoted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,724
Members
18,251 posts
5,219 battles
2 hours ago, Ace_04 said:

I've brawled in Amagi and have had success, but more out of necessity rather than preference.

This. Her secondaries aren't all that bad at point-blank range, but I certainly wouldn't position to make a point of engaging with them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
364
[ARP2]
Members
1,244 posts
3,569 battles

As someone who actually uses a secondary build on Amagi, I mostly disagree with what everyone above me has said.  All of my IJN BBs are secondary specced and Amagi is my favorite of the bunch.

http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc/0100000000100010100001001000100019

Thats the build I use on most of my IJN BB captains except Yamamoto who trades superintendent for Basic Fire Training.  I run Yamamoto in Nagato and find the extra heal isnt worth 3 points at tier 7.  On average, my secondaries add around 7% to my damage per game between fires and straight secondary shell hits.  Is that 7% worth giving up a survivability or concealment build for you?  Mind you, thats the average.  Ive had monster secondary games where theyve done half my damage (counting in fires since i only shoot AP all fire damage comes from HE secondaries) but ive also had games with really passive teams and never got to use my secondaries.  Thats fine as Amagis guns are fantastic either way.

My Amagi upgrades are:  Main Armament Mod1, The only battleship option Mod 1, Secondaries Mod 1, Ruddershift Mod 1, and Target systems thingie Mod 1 (admittedly, sneaky sneaky Mod 1 might be better here.)

 

All that said, iif you cant brawl, doing a secondary build on any ship is pointless and i dont recommend it.  People love to talk up their Bismarks and Derpitz, but my Amagi has never lost a brawl to one and on one occasion, i beat two at once.  You NEED to know how to brawl in order to make secondary builds work.  Most people simply dont know how. 

Some things to keep in mind if you go down the secondary Amagi path:

You have amazing guns.  Use them.  Soften up your targets before going in for the kill. 

Know the ships youre facing that have torps, thier arcs and their ranges.  Its alot to remember, but if theres one thing thatll save you in a knife fight, its knowing where to expect torps to come from.

Players ALWAYS telegraph torp launches.  Know the signs.

Dont try to force yourself into secondary range.  Its like any other push, you need to know when and when not to. 

IFHE is useless on IJN BBs.  Most of IJN BBs secondaries are AP, so wasting 4 points for 4(ish) shells per side is too much, so i invested those points into survival skills at tier 3.

Secondary builds are not competative builds.  If i took any of my IJN BBs into clan wars or ranked, id respec the captain.  They are good fun for randoms though!

Learn to brawl and get comfortable doing it.  There are alot of tricks and tactics to doing it.  Its not just sail into point blank range and pew pew.  Thats what most people do and also why they fail at it.

 

Im sure theres tons im forgetting, but its been a long day and im brain fried.  Good luck if you decide to join the secondary specced ranks.  Its a great playstyle that keeps me playing ships id probably have sold long ago.  Ignore the naysayers.

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
364
[ARP2]
Members
1,244 posts
3,569 battles
9 hours ago, The_first_harbinger said:

Honestly, IMO people who claim that they "did well" with secondary amagi is either very very lucky or very very dumb.
 

Care to division up sometime?

I am quite willing to put my money where my mouth is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,817
[WOLF3]
[WOLF3]
Members
16,132 posts
14,535 battles

The last time where IJN BB Secondary Builds were useful and popular was before the arrival of German Battleships.  This was so because USN BB Secondaries were, and still are, absolute garbage as a whole.

 

With the arrival of German BBs, that all went out the window.  The arrival of French BBs that also eventually get good Secondaries all but ended the notion of IJN BB Secondary Builds being valid.

 

Co-op?  Sure.

PVP?  Not anymore.  Hasn't been so for years.

 

Even Yamato's long ranged Secondaries has been power crept.  Secondary Build Yamato used to be wildly popular.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,110
[WUDPS]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
4,851 posts
4,743 battles
1 hour ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The last time where IJN BB Secondary Builds were useful and popular was before the arrival of German Battleships.  This was so because USN BB Secondaries were, and still are, absolute garbage as a whole.

 

With the arrival of German BBs, that all went out the window.  The arrival of French BBs that also eventually get good Secondaries all but ended the notion of IJN BB Secondary Builds being valid.

 

Co-op?  Sure.

PVP?  Not anymore.  Hasn't been so for years.

 

Even Yamato's long ranged Secondaries has been power crept.  Secondary Build Yamato used to be wildly popular.

My god, Yammy secondary builds back in the day were the bane of existence...it would just rain fires on people. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,504
[AHOY_]
Beta Testers
6,491 posts
3,435 battles

I still use an Amagi secondary build, but that's because I have a bad habit of following the cruisers in, and ending up close enough to not so much brawl, but do a drive-by shootout, vs DDs, or enemy cruisers, or other BBs.

If you're hyper aggressive in Kongou, Amagi lets you do it again.

But otherwise, she's better off playing the mid-range game, if one isn't very aggressive with her.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,817
[WOLF3]
[WOLF3]
Members
16,132 posts
14,535 battles
4 hours ago, Dr_Venture said:

My god, Yammy secondary builds back in the day were the bane of existence...it would just rain fires on people. 

They still can.  It's just the later ships with better secondaries made it more difficult and are expressly built for brawls

I still remember though that not only were her secondaries vastly better than Montana's (and they still are, by a YOOOGE margin), but many felt going this route was fine.  Her accuracy without ASM1 was still perfect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×