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Navalpride33

WOWS, This is why people are tired of high tiered CV games (see Pic)

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Granted CVs are a dying class in the upper tiers and I have been more then vocal advocate for change in the class. After a recent game in the US DM, I can not express my frustration to way people despise the current balance of CV to surface game interaction. Here are the carnage in the pics. Man after this game I hope that Midway driver took a shower sheesh.

image.png.9d73f003a68faced10766e9005781c02.png

 

image.thumb.png.ffdb9e908005e1eefc330d6505bc9555.png

Again I am not mad at the guy, he did what ever WOWS allows him to do. Wiping out close to 42k in one pass is not only brutal but I think unrealistic even for arcade standards of WOWS.  But here is my evidence to the Developers to get a kick laugh at untill the CV rework is done. Later everyone

EDIT* We lost the game.

Edited by Navalpride33
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you just got killed by a skilled cv player. nothing more

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2 hours ago, Navalpride33 said:

Granted CVs are a dying class in the upper tiers and I have been more then vocal advocate for change in the class. After a recent game in the US DM, I can not express my frustration to way people despise the current balance of CV to surface game interaction. Here are the carnage in the pics. Man after this game I hope that Midway driver took a shower sheesh.

Spoiler

image.png.9d73f003a68faced10766e9005781c02.png

 

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.ffdb9e908005e1eefc330d6505bc9555.png

 

Again I am not mad at the guy, he did what ever WOWS allows him to do. Wiping out close to 42k in one pass is not only brutal but I think unrealistic even for arcade standards of WOWS.  But here is my evidence to the Developers to get a kick laugh at untill the CV rework is done. Later everyone

EDIT* We lost the game.

So if you get tanked out by a BB CA/CL or torped out by a DD for 41.5k damage (which is very doable) that is OK...but CVs are broken?

Edit: Personally I would have comped the CV player for being able to get 6 bombers close enough to a DM in the 1st place.

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10 minutes ago, IfYouSeeKhaos said:

So if you get tanked out by a BB CA/CL or torped out by a DD for 41.5k damage (which is very doable) that is OK...but CVs are broken?

That had me scratching my head as well. Shimi - any 2 torp hits = minimum 41k. Stars would have to align for the amount of citadels from a CA/CL, but max AP at Tier 10 is doable for most of them. And well, every Tier 10 BB would have no problem.

As a matter of fact @Navalpride33 I'll do you one better. In my Missouri today I 3 cited a Minotaur, didn't kill him (left him with 100 health) for 43,200 health out of his 43,300 total. That's Tier 9 vs. Tier 10 just for a frame of reference. And, just so you could see, I uploaded it to YouTube. As an FYI, this is not denigrating anyone in the short clip, this is merely pointing out that huge damage can come in any factor in the higher Tiers.

Not only did he live OP, but my team lost. :) As the saying goes, "stuff" happens.

 

 

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Someone on Reddit made a nice post about it. See the link in the spoiler. 
Just wait for the CV rework...

Spoiler

 

 

Edited by LemonadeWarrior

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Problem people have with using CVs is against good teams the AA will kill them off, but against Summer and Weekend teams the CVs are everywhere and OP against clueless players.

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5 hours ago, BURN_Miner said:

Stars would have to align for the amount of citadels from a CA

W/the camping nature of DMs not really...sometimes you come around an island & there it is...4km away...guns aimed the wrong way to do anything about it...you've shot at it earlier so you already know how to lead the 50% acceleration upgrade...& the last thing you shot at was a Mino so the AP is already locked & loaded...

OK...I guess a lot of stars do have to align for that (especially that last one that involves a cruiser w/AP loaded nowadays as HE spamming seems to be the norm in them).

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5 hours ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

Someone on Reddit made a nice post about it. See the link in the spoiler. 

That was...a pretty awful write up,  frankly. It was wrong and opinionated on so many levels.  Let's begin,  shall we?

No,  CV's do NOT have a much higher impact on win rate than any other class.  This particular myth needs to die,  and pretty hard core at that.   DD's have a higher impact on win rate than CV's do.  CV's appear to have a much higher win rate since so many people don't work to counter or mitigate CV's.  Show me a match where every single person on both teams is working to actively lessen the impact of a CV and you'll see a match where CV's can do very little.  Clan battles and ranked battles are good places to see this in action.

No,  CV's are not balanced at a much higher power level,  and in fact this is flat out stupid.  CV's are balanced around having a much higher turn around time,  ergo the alpha damage they do has to be high.  Let's do a comparison,  shall we?  Let's assume a Midway with a roughly three minute turn around time versus a Montana which has a nice,  even 30 second reload.  Now lets assume in this nice fantasy world that every single piece of ordinance hits and hits for maximum damage.  This is assuming everything AP citadels and torpedoes all manage to hit a magically non-protected area.

The max damage potential of the Montana after three minutes is 252,000 damage.  The max damage of the Midway is roughly 170,000.  Of course this is extremely disingenuous on both sides but it gives us a baseline to work with.  The issues here are of course that AP shells are NOT going to hit for that consistently but then neither are bombs and torpedoes.  Torpedoes also have torpedo bulges to contend with.  Past that,  its assuming all planes reach the target and both require a target to not be maneuvering.  

So who has to deal with more here?  The Montana is not dependent on its entire damage package being done in a single strike and does not have to worry about losing entire chunks of its damage because its shells were shot down.  The Montana can also use HE shells to deal fire damage consistent to help it deal with angled ships.  In contrast,  a target can still reduce the amount of damage a Montana can do by angling appropriately or finding the nearest island and making camp.

The Midway,  on the other hand,  can drop ordinance a lot more accurately.  If the Midway can find an appropriate target ((Slow moving,  stopped)) its not outside the realm of possibility for all of her bombs and torpedoes to hit.  The meta right now involves a LOT of that particular playstyle.  HOWEVER CV's have to deal with constant AA,  defensive fire,  and targets actively trying to mitigate what they can do.  Its a lot easier to lessen the amount of damage done by a Midway than it is to lessen the amount of damage done by a smart Montana player IF the target is moving.  

The main reason CV's have an easier time dealing damage is because while yes,  losing planes is detrimental,  losing planes does not end the damage a CV does, while sinking very definitely ends the amount of damage the Montana in our example was doing.  Even with a nerfed 116 hangar the Midway can afford to send flight after flight at an enemy target.  Course to be reasonable you also have to consider that if a target can chew up your planes than he is going to be able to continue doing so until someone either ends him for you or is kind enough to knock out enough AA to make them approachable.

But on to the next two!  And these two show that the player in question was absolutely a DD player.  CV's are the ORIGINAL counter to DD's.  Before radar,  before hydroaccoustic,  there were CV's.  The reason the aforementioned counters came into play because people stopped playing CV's,   and DD's were allowed to run rampant.  I realize DD players might not realize this,  but that's not fun for everyone else.  But even now,  there are DD's with defensive fire so even THAT tenuous strength is being mitigated.  Oh,  but your redditor doesn't mention that , does he?  Nope.

The balancing...seriously?  With increased AA across the board and with new lines having more and more AA I can't even read that one with a straight face.  The counters to CV's are growing a lot faster than the counters to DD's.  The Worcester might seem like a bad time to a DD,  but trust me when I say its a nightmare for CV's. 

Active counterplay to CV's?  You mean awareness and WASD hacks?  Maneuvering when you have bombers overhead and hitting the brake and turning into torpedo bombers while making sure you designate a target to take chunks out of it?  Oh man!  That's real hard!  What this redditor is talking about is NOT counterplaying CV's,  its shutting them down entirely.  And in fact it does not take a lemming train,  three ships sticking close together ((Preferably with a CA)) will destroy most any incoming flight past T7.   People don't want to do that,  people want to be solo heroes and THEN not actually maneuver to deal with the incoming threat.  That's the CV's fault?

The Graf Zeppelin's AP bombs are broken.  No one with any sense is arguing against that.  AP bombs themselves?  Not that big a deal.  IF you are actively moving and able to dodge them.  If you aren't then AP bombs are doing EXACTLY what they are designed to do,  countering bow and island campers.  Anecdotal evidence on this one,  but the most any of my German BB's have taken off of AP bombs is 23000ish thousand damage.  Turning left or right cuts down on the damage they can deal by a ton,  even more so if the poor sod is trying to manual drop on you.  Again,  this is coming off like someone complaining about being countered.

Okay?  So divisioning with CV's is easy to manipulate.  How often do you see that?  Because I can't think of the last time I did.  And even then...this is more divisioning and less CV's so...not really a good anti-CV argument.

The Essex has two fighter squadrons for spotting...how old was this stupidity?

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14 hours ago, Palladia said:

The Essex has two fighter squadrons for spotting...how old was this stupidity?

Yep i read it to and even though it was written well there were so many things wrong with it, it sounded like it was coming from a non CV player, most points you have said already soon as they said "dive bombers are pure clicking and there is no evading a capable drop" that was it for me DB are the most easy thing to dodge or take next to no damage. They also left out the balance problem between the two CV lines. It was a pick and [edited] post and left anything impotent out off it but no surprise there people need to play CV or talk to people that do and they might find it's not as simple as they think and a left click to win.

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The only think killing cv's are people playing them who do not understand them and people playing against them who understand them even less.  The good CV players can multi task and prioritize spotting/defending/bombing but the great CV players spend the first few minutes of every match educating and instructing their entire team as to how to best position themselves in order to defend themselves against the enemy CV.  

See a well positioned team can defend itself against a CV in most cases without the aid of friendly fighters.  Doing this also allows the friendly CV to send its fighters to spot enemy dd's and focus on deleting enemy ships.  If that CV captain is lucky they will listen and things will go well.  Sadly however too often they do not listen.  They sail off solo spread all over the map and cry when their CV does not "protect" them from enemy bombers then go whine on the forums about how "op" CV bombers are because they got deleted.  Well if you sailed off broadside to a shimi you would get the same result and if cv's were truly so broken everyone would be playing them.  Don't believe me?  Go take a t6 CV into a t8 match and tell me how OP you are when 1 ships aa decimates your entire bomber squadron.  Oh and before you say that's because it's a t6 vs t8, a Worcestershire will do that to a midway just as easily and it's aa bubble is big enough to cover and entire node.  

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