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Steel_Panzer

How should I build the Gneisenau captain skills

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So what should be my captain skills for Gneisenau.

1st still I got PM, 2nd I got turret rotation,

Question is third should I get Fire Expert or Basic Firing training.  I find I use AP all the time on main guns don't see a need for using HE.  So the question is for the 3rd skill what would help more on 2ndaries setting fire more by 2% or reloading -10% faster.  Let me know if I am missing something on my analysis. 

And for 4th skill Advance Fire training to get +20% on range of 2ndaries, right

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BFT for the faster rate of fire, then AFT for yes, 20% more to range. Fire chance calculations are weird, so 2% may not REALLY be 2% and just... yeah. 

 

Personally at the moment my German BB's are PM, EM, BFT, AFT, Man Sec, Super, AR - max secondary range and RoF, especially as I lose HP, and an extra heal/sonar. 

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PM is generally not worth it on a Battleship.  It doesn't improve the survivability of secondaries or AA guns at all, and while it helps with torps and main guns, it's not really noticeable. Not to mention that it's pretty much useless for helping rudder or engine, since neither of them ever take hits worth mentioning.

You want PT instead.

For most KM BBs, the order tends to be:

  1. PT
  2. EM
  3. BoS (though some pick SI instead)
  4. AFT

Then it boils down to if you want to go full secondary build or not.

Secondaries:

  • MFCSG
  • AR
  • BFT

survivability build:

  1. FP
  2. SI (or BoS whichever you didn't take)
  3. AR

"hybrid" build:

  1. MFCSG
  2. AR
  3. SI (or BoS whichever you didn't take)

 

You'll be on fire all the time as a brawling BB, so you want to reduce the fire damage as much as you can.  DE is mostly useless, as while you'll add a good amount to your secondary gun's fire chance, on a German BB, they generally pen very well already, so you're doing most of your damage via Pen, not Fire.

I personally prefer the Hybrid one, as the extra heal is nice over BFT, which is only a modest bump to your AA/secondary damage, and the heal (as well as the extra Hydro) is more valuable.

At upper tiers (T8+), Fire Prevention starts to look REALLY good, as the amount of HE spam is really dangerous.

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Secondaries Gneisenau is the typical build, you'll see variations of this as the most common thing for this BB.  What I would do:

PT & PM

AR

BFT

AFT & Manual Secondaries & CE

Upgrades: AAM1, DCSM1, SBM2, SGM2.  If you can play with the loss of SGM2, consider DCSM2 to make fires / floods have shorter timers on you.

Your AA will be of significant danger to Tier V-VI CVs you encounter, but VII CVs will get through.  VIII-IX CVs will plow through as if you had no AA.  The greatest problem is that nothing is done to improve her wildly inconsistent gunnery.  However, when she's in the brawl, especially knife fighting ranges, she's very dangerous.  If DDs get spotted within secondaries range, they won't last long.

 

If you hate CVs that much, AA Gneisenau is excellent, God Tier BB AA for VII.  It's what I actually am built for right now, and my captain conveniently is also used on my Prinz Eugen also.

Same build as above but replace Manual Secondaries for Manual AA trait.

Upgrades:  Same as above but replace SBM2 with AAGM2.

CVs will pay dearly when anywhere in your AA bubble.  The AA is so strong that Gneisenau could be the centerpiece of a group of ships and the CV will never get through.  I have had my AA Gneis be close enough to friendly DDs that they come running back to me when the CV planes are coming, and I shred them as almost all CVs don't expect an AA Gneisenau.  The weakness is the secondaries are not what they could be (no Manual Secondaries trait, no SBM2).  Also, like Secondaries Build, nothing is done to improve the inconsistent gunnery.  My justification for doing AA Gneisenau is that she plays right smack in the middle of CV tiers where they are actually played.  Tier V-VIII are the ones that actually see action, and Gneisenau is dead center of that CV MM bracket.  She can see IX CVs on occasion but those are rare.  In Gneisenau's AA range are all the most dangerous Carriers in the game that aren't in Tier X.

Kaga (12 TB armageddon), Saipan, Hiryu (TB cross drop + HE DB DOT stacking), Shokaku (TB cross drop + HE DB DOT stacking), Enterprise (AP / HE bomb option, torp cross drops), Lexington (AP Bomb option), Graf Zepplin (AP bombs but TBs can exist), Essex (Tier IX), Taiho (Tier IX, 12 TB armageddon, HE DB DOT stacking).

These are very dangerous CVs and all of them Gneisenau can encounter.

 

Main Battery / Survival Build - This one I haven't done myself, but it's something I've thought about.

PT

HA & AR

BOS & SI

FP & CE

Upgrades: MAM1, DCSM1, ASM1, SGM2.  Same SGM2 / DCSM2 comment as the initial build.

Install ASM1 to improve main battery consistency a bit.  No dedication to AA or secondaries at all, but you will withstand fires a lot.  If you get into a brawl, you are relying on your guns and torps to quickly end the fight.  After all, when Gnesienau gets into short ranged fights, it's her guns and torps that do all the damage, not secondaries.  However, with no help towards secondaries, you will get into situations where a DD is spotted and is 7km of you, especially numerous Tier V-VII DDs with 6.8km or so detection ranges.  In such cases your stock secondaries are useless.

 

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On 7/23/2018 at 7:28 PM, Steel_Panzer said:

So what should be my captain skills for Gneisenau.

1st still I got PM, 2nd I got turret rotation,

Question is third should I get Fire Expert or Basic Firing training.  I find I use AP all the time on main guns don't see a need for using HE.  So the question is for the 3rd skill what would help more on 2ndaries setting fire more by 2% or reloading -10% faster.  Let me know if I am missing something on my analysis. 

And for 4th skill Advance Fire training to get +20% on range of 2ndaries, right


I would recommend you drop Turret WD40 for Adrenaline Rush instead.  36 second turret rotation is not uncomfortable in a German BB, especially if you forgo rudder shift mod.  Preventative Maintenance is also nice, but the German turrets are armored well enough that it's extremely rare that they get permanently knocked out (I've had it happen maybe 10 times in over 4000 battles).  Priority Target gives you SOOOO much more information to help you play better.  Counter goes up one then drops, but no shells come your way? You probably just got torped - turn and slow down.

My Gneisenau captain build is as follows (numbers indicate what order you should take them as your captain levels up):

Tier 1 - Priority Target (1), Direction Center for Catapult Aircraft (7)

Tier 2 - Adrenaline Rush (2)

Tier 3 - Superintendent (3)

Tier 4 - Advance Fire Training (4), Manual Secondaries (6), Concealment Expert (5)

For ship modules, I take Aux Arm 1, Secondary 1, Damacon 1, Damacon 2

 

Basic Fire Training is nice, but the 10% reload buff is just too small to be noticeable - most brawls are over in a few seconds.  If you plan on moving your Gneis captain to Bismarck, spec for the following:

Tier 1 - Priority Target (1), Direction Center for Catapult Aircraft (7), Preventative Maintenance (8)

Tier 2 - Adrenaline Rush (2)

Tier 3 - Superintendent (3), Basics of Survivability (6)

Tier 4 - Advance Fire Training (4), Manual Secondaries (5)

My Bis Modules are the same as with Gneisenau + Concealment Mod 1

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What role do you intend for her? Main battle brawler? Cruiser or CV squadron killer?  Mine is set up for AA work, including replacing her spotter with a fighter plane, getting the option to launch two fighter planes and increased fighter plane ability and beefed up AAs while I go looking for flattops to smash.

 

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Beta Testers
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A full Manual Build holds potential if you enjoy Ctrl+Clicking. 

Although the build is stronger for the French.

PT - EM - SI - AFT - MFCSB - MFCAA - PM 

You've got you MBs for Cruisers and larger, MFCAA + AFT for planes, MFCSB + AFT for DDs.

And depending on what you dislike more CVs or DDs take your pick of module slot. SBM2 for DDs, AAM2 for CVs, or ASM1 if your MBs are bugging you a bit. 

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