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awildseaking

How Will WG Compensate for CW Split Rating SNAFU?

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At this point it's pretty obvious that Alpha/Bravo ratings were a mistake. 4 weeks left and there are only 2 clans in Hurricane and 25 in all of Typhoon. Last season, all of these clans (and even a large portion of Storm teams) were at least in Typhoon by this point. Hell, they were in Typhoon within the first few days. Instead of being a scrimmage mode of sorts, clans are running Bravo to double dip into prior leagues and kick everyone else down. A longer season would eventually lead to both Alpha and Bravo ratings representing the actual capability of the clan, but gatekeeping would still occur (best team goes into Bravo and tanks the Bravo rating) and gatekeeping has made it impossible for clans to help most of their members get rewards.

Since thousands of players will be denied their clan rewards due to this horrible and unnecessary decision, how should WG compensate?

Edited by awildseaking
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Is it due to Alpha and Bravo or more due to the fact that its summer and interest is lower this season? I suspect the middle of summer has more to do with it, things are pretty slow in RUST for CB compared to the other 2 seasons, I know that.

Edited by Ducky_shot

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17 minutes ago, Ducky_shot said:

Is it due to Alpha and Bravo or more due to the fact that its summer and interest is lower this season? I suspect the middle of summer has more to do with it, things are pretty slow in RUST for CB compared to the other 2 seasons, I know that.

Interest may be lower, but that doesn't eliminate the core problem. Since the Alpha and Bravo ratings are separate, Typhoon and Hurricane clan(s) can play in lower leagues in Bravo. It's the equivalent of being matched against Hurricane while in Squall.

The leagues sorted themselves out pretty quickly in the first two seasons. Now we have a ton of people stuck in lower leagues they don't belong in because every time they get higher ratings or into promos, a Typhoon or Hurricane clan shows up in Storm or Squall with their best team. It's officially sanctioned griefing and ironically makes it harder for non-tryhard players to earn CW rewards.

Edited by awildseaking

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25 minutes ago, awildseaking said:

The leagues sorted themselves out pretty quickly in the first two seasons. Now we have a ton of people stuck in lower leagues they don't belong in because every time they get higher ratings or into promos, a Typhoon or Hurricane clan shows up in Storm or Squall with their best team. It's officially sanctioned griefing and ironically makes it harder for non-tryhard players to earn CW rewards.

I understand your point, and I don't entirely disagree, but as for me personally--I relish the opportunity to play against the best competition this server has to offer (even knowing that my own, mostly recreational, clan would get stomped in the process).  I mean, when it comes down to it the whole point of Clan Wars was supposed to be proving who's the best on each server...the rewards are just that--rewards for those who put in the time & have the ability to win their way to the top.

Besides which, given that the rewards for each league are based on total wins, and that the required number of wins for the lower leagues are fairly small, there really wouldn't be any point in a top clan "double-dipping" like you described.  They would literally be wasting time which they could spend trying to get to Hurricane in order to get the big prizes.  The Alpha/Bravo system being tried out this season was intended to allow more clan members to participate, particularly in the most competitive clans, so that more people overall could earn the rewards.  It could be abused, but why?

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13 minutes ago, Harv72b said:

I understand your point, and I don't entirely disagree, but as for me personally--I relish the opportunity to play against the best competition this server has to offer (even knowing that my own, mostly recreational, clan would get stomped in the process).  I mean, when it comes down to it the whole point of Clan Wars was supposed to be proving who's the best on each server...the rewards are just that--rewards for those who put in the time & have the ability to win their way to the top.

Besides which, given that the rewards for each league are based on total wins, and that the required number of wins for the lower leagues are fairly small, there really wouldn't be any point in a top clan "double-dipping" like you described.  They would literally be wasting time which they could spend trying to get to Hurricane in order to get the big prizes.  The Alpha/Bravo system being tried out this season was intended to allow more clan members to participate, particularly in the most competitive clans, so that more people overall could earn the rewards.  It could be abused, but why?

Gatekeeping helps them get lower league rewards more easily and is better for farming wins and fxp. Hurricane rewards are terrible tbh. Plus, when the time comes to farm rating points, gatekeeping helps a clan stay at the top by blocking the competition from ever advancing. This is the same problem from S1 with instant clan transfers except WG officially sanctioned it this time. Just go to Bravo, maintain your rating in mid-Typhoon, and block every other Hurricane clan from getting out of lower leagues.

Interesting theory, but it doesn't comport with reality. If there was no point to running Bravo, we wouldn't have the current problem. Most of the clans that just got into Typhoon got there in the first week last season. A lot of the Hurricane teams from S1 and 2 still aren't out of Storm with only 4 weeks left, which of course hurts everyone else that actually deserves to be in Storm.

You have to understand that at the highest level of play, people aren't going to have the absurd 80% WRs that result from good players beating bad ones. They trade close to 50/50. The problem is we're already playing the best clans who get back into the lower leagues by tanking their Bravo rating. We trade with them and that makes it hard to advance which is why nobody is advancing right now.

What do you think the two clans currently in Hurricane would rather do; play each other all the time and tryhard 24/7, or go into Bravo, play against everyone else, and earn the same rewards for most people in their clan while stopping everyone else from advancing? Your assertion is backwards. The system is already being abused; why wouldn't you abuse it? This season is shorter than the previous two. They want Stalingrad as much as anyone else. If they didn't do this, someone else would. You would be working against yourself not to abuse Bravo.

Edited by awildseaking
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Doubloons would be nice Compensation for any CW disasters... :Smile_coin:

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5eb6dc58-47e8-11e8-8a57-d89d6715223c.jpg

CW2 stats are from world-wide. Last season, 239 Hurricane, 391 Typhoon.

Currently, 8 Hurricane, 12 Typhoon 1, and I assume no more than 100 Typhoon total based on score distributions I can see for the Top 25.

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18 minutes ago, awildseaking said:

What do you think the two clans currently in Hurricane would rather do; play each other all the time and tryhard 24/7, or go into Bravo, play against everyone else, and earn the same rewards for most people in their clan while stopping everyone else from advancing? Your assertion is backwards. The system is already being abused; why wouldn't you abuse it? This season is shorter than the previous two. They want Stalingrad as much as anyone else. If they didn't do this, someone else would. You would be working against yourself not to abuse Bravo.

But what rewards are they earning?  2500 base XP in maxed-out tier 10 ships?  A fraction of the credits they could earn by playing a random battle in Missouri?  A slightly faster path to the legendary upgrades that aren't even useful on many ships (and which many of them have already unlocked anyway)?  Once they have the required number of wins in each league, that player isn't going to earn any more steel to use toward Stalingrad or whatever other ship comes in the future.  Playing as their Bravo rating in Storm wouldn't help them toward the Typhoon or Hurricane missions. "Blocking" other clans might help them to get their clan up in lights on a webpage most people will never even look at, but it's not like the top clans are unknown or have any recruiting problems.  And as far as just beating up on far worse players, why not do that as divisions in randoms where the in-game rewards aren't capped?  I mean, as a destroyer player in particular I have a lot more fun playing in randoms than I do alternately parked behind islands or spotting for my team in clan wars...I doubt that would be different for very many other players.

This is the time of year when more people are away on vacations or spending time with their families, and the overall player numbers are dipping as well (NA couldn't even hit 20k people simply logging on simultaneously, on a weekend, with the offer of a free super container just for doing it!).  The fact that fewer clans have made it to the top leagues vs. previous seasons is not surprising at all.  Perhaps the dramatic fall in numbers is a surprise, but I wouldn't be ready to call it an obvious flaw in the new system...and even if I did, I don't think that would entitle anyone to reparations from WarGaming.

 

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31 minutes ago, Harv72b said:

I mean, as a destroyer player in particular I have a lot more fun playing in randoms than I do alternately parked behind islands or spotting for my team in clan wars...I doubt that would be different for very many other players.

the secret is to become the team bard and sing soothing songs for your cruisers to calm their weary souls and increase their accuracy
trust me this is unironically a certified 100% winrate tactic

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1 hour ago, Harv72b said:

But what rewards are they earning?  2500 base XP in maxed-out tier 10 ships?  A fraction of the credits they could earn by playing a random battle in Missouri?  A slightly faster path to the legendary upgrades that aren't even useful on many ships (and which many of them have already unlocked anyway)?  Once they have the required number of wins in each league, that player isn't going to earn any more steel to use toward Stalingrad or whatever other ship comes in the future.  Playing as their Bravo rating in Storm wouldn't help them toward the Typhoon or Hurricane missions. "Blocking" other clans might help them to get their clan up in lights on a webpage most people will never even look at, but it's not like the top clans are unknown or have any recruiting problems.  And as far as just beating up on far worse players, why not do that as divisions in randoms where the in-game rewards aren't capped?  I mean, as a destroyer player in particular I have a lot more fun playing in randoms than I do alternately parked behind islands or spotting for my team in clan wars...I doubt that would be different for very many other players.

This is the time of year when more people are away on vacations or spending time with their families, and the overall player numbers are dipping as well (NA couldn't even hit 20k people simply logging on simultaneously, on a weekend, with the offer of a free super container just for doing it!).  The fact that fewer clans have made it to the top leagues vs. previous seasons is not surprising at all.  Perhaps the dramatic fall in numbers is a surprise, but I wouldn't be ready to call it an obvious flaw in the new system...and even if I did, I don't think that would entitle anyone to reparations from WarGaming.

 

They could be grinding the credit and Captain XP Missions in Halsey or other Campaigns without the risk of tarnishing their stats in other Battkemodrs with the Summer Teams creating 24/7 weekend quality teams until School starts again. Honestly I don’t blame players for grinding that in Clan Battles since I only made painful progress in Randoms recently and truth be told the bulk of my progress recently has been in Clan Wars for Halsey Campaign.

As for the 20k players thing, server was going into failure I heard when we were getting close to reaching the goal lol. Sounds like Wargaming has some tech work on their end to keep them busy this Summer lol.

Edited by Admiral_Thrawn_1

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most of the clans in typhoon have both alpha and bravo in typhoon. so I dont think the issue is that clans are using their bravo teams to go after lower teams you can only see the top rating of each clan its more that WG changed the MM this season so your seeing really only teams that are around your skill level now.

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Yep cuter is using it’s bravo that’s we just got into typhoon 2 lastnight to get all of our flags.

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54 minutes ago, Shigure_DD said:

Yep cuter is using it’s bravo that’s we just got into typhoon 2 lastnight to get all of our flags.

Good Luck on Cbs. 

I still think that radar is a bigger issue than clan battles ever could be. I am here sitting in my tier 6 and a belfast (Which has smoke and radar + Hydro) can stroll up and hit his button and totally destroy any hopes I have before I can even react. I need to be able to switch out my hydro for something that hides me from radar too <3

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i am pretty sure they also changed to point system

what ended you with +21/-21 now might be +16/-26, what ended you with +12/-12 now is +9/-15

so the net points gain for the whole population is a lot lower overall

 

plus the fact that they fixed the whole two league MM issue, which means you'll only be facing similar strength opponents, and assuming everyone have 50% WR against each other, EVERYONE drops points

 

my clan has ~60%WR in typhoon, and is constantly doing "defend ourselves best of 5"s, constantly

 

************************************************************************************************

 

7 hours ago, awildseaking said:

At this point it's pretty obvious that Alpha/Bravo ratings were a mistake. 4 weeks left and there are only 2 clans in Hurricane and 25 in all of Typhoon. Last season, all of these clans (and even a large portion of Storm teams) were at least in Typhoon by this point. Hell, they were in Typhoon within the first few days. Instead of being a scrimmage mode of sorts, clans are running Bravo to double dip into prior leagues and kick everyone else down. A longer season would eventually lead to both Alpha and Bravo ratings representing the actual capability of the clan, but gatekeeping would still occur (best team goes into Bravo and tanks the Bravo rating) and gatekeeping has made it impossible for clans to help most of their members get rewards.

Since thousands of players will be denied their clan rewards due to this horrible and unnecessary decision, how should WG compensate?

on the other hand, we've never done/heard of this gatekeeping thing, nor have we ever considered it......

getting everyone the stalingrad flag is our #1 priority right now, we cant afford to waste precious CW time on getting bravo up to typhoon

 

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7 hours ago, awildseaking said:

Interest may be lower, but that doesn't eliminate the core problem. Since the Alpha and Bravo ratings are separate, Typhoon and Hurricane clan(s) can play in lower leagues in Bravo. It's the equivalent of being matched against Hurricane while in Squall.

The leagues sorted themselves out pretty quickly in the first two seasons. Now we have a ton of people stuck in lower leagues they don't belong in because every time they get higher ratings or into promos, a Typhoon or Hurricane clan shows up in Storm or Squall with their best team. It's officially sanctioned griefing and ironically makes it harder for non-tryhard players to earn CW rewards.

The other reason is that in former seasons, you had to complete typhoon missions to get ultimate rewards. Now steel can be gotten in the lower leagues. The extra 4k steel in typhoon might not be enough to get people to spend the time to get there. 

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4 hours ago, Shigure_DD said:

most of the clans in typhoon have both alpha and bravo in typhoon. so I dont think the issue is that clans are using their bravo teams to go after lower teams you can only see the top rating of each clan its more that WG changed the MM this season so your seeing really only teams that are around your skill level now.

This^

1 hour ago, jason199506 said:

i am pretty sure they also changed to point system

what ended you with +21/-21 now might be +16/-26, what ended you with +12/-12 now is +9/-15

so the net points gain for the whole population is a lot lower overall

 

plus the fact that they fixed the whole two league MM issue, which means you'll only be facing similar strength opponents, and assuming everyone have 50% WR against each other, EVERYONE drops points

 

my clan has ~60%WR in typhoon, and is constantly doing "defend ourselves best of 5"s, constantly

 

************************************************************************************************

 

on the other hand, we've never done/heard of this gatekeeping thing, nor have we ever considered it......

getting everyone the stalingrad flag is our #1 priority right now, we cant afford to waste precious CW time on getting bravo up to typhoon

 

and this^

8 hours ago, awildseaking said:

At this point it's pretty obvious that Alpha/Bravo ratings were a mistake. 4 weeks left and there are only 2 clans in Hurricane and 25 in all of Typhoon. Last season, all of these clans (and even a large portion of Storm teams) were at least in Typhoon by this point. Hell, they were in Typhoon within the first few days. Instead of being a scrimmage mode of sorts, clans are running Bravo to double dip into prior leagues and kick everyone else down. A longer season would eventually lead to both Alpha and Bravo ratings representing the actual capability of the clan, but gatekeeping would still occur (best team goes into Bravo and tanks the Bravo rating) and gatekeeping has made it impossible for clans to help most of their members get rewards.

Since thousands of players will be denied their clan rewards due to this horrible and unnecessary decision, how should WG compensate?

not this^

 

I believe the intention of having A / B teams was to allow more competitive clans to rotate newer players through, that is how SF-3 is using it, or if we are having a losing streak and want to derp around. It is in no ones best interest ( other than to increase the size of 1 or 2 clans E-peens) to keep teams from getting into Typhoon / Hurricane, the more teams in those leagues, the easier it will be to get / win a game. As others have said, the issue is the adjustment to MM, now you are facing teams at / around your ranking, where as in the last 2 seasons you could be in Typhoon playing against Gale / Storm teams, which heavily padded your WR.

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I know a few teams are doing it purposefully,  but for the most part I think not.  Our alpha team is in Typhoon 2, and our bravo (played by completely different players) are right on our tales in storm 1.  There are some possible bad qualities of the AB teams, but overall I see it as positive. It's honestly those teams that are going out of their way to make it miserable for others. 

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The alpha/bravo bit is overall been a good change. It's solved a lot of our problems with letting people play. No longer do we have to tell people to sit. Anyone can run under Bravo, while Alpha takes it's time and slowly pushes forward.

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Someone sponsor [YIKES] and buy us crates so we can actually play bravo rating.

OP also didn't mention the tightened MM spread this season, meaning hurricane fights only hurricane/typh 1 clans with normal MM. MM only gets widened when you reach 10 minute queue times or w/e. That's another huge part of the reason teams won't/can't/don't climb past typhoon 2. The time spent waiting for a game is actually straight up off putting.

edit for some other poster asking why a top tier clan would bother playing bravo rating in the first place; the answer is fxp farm. A good team playing on bravo and running full FXP bonuses + camo can easily pull 22k+ FXP per match. While most of us don't *really* have a good use for that fxp, it lets us completely skip the grind on new lines cuz most of us are done with/close to finishing all our line, or buy things like krons/sushi/alaska just for keks without having to drop dubs to convert or grind for the next millenium. Why bother playing randoms and clubbing people at t10 when you could get a potentially (actual) good match and get 20k+ fxp at the same time.

omg please help, buy us crates.

Edited by Amatsukaze_DD

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This all makes me Laugh. CB are so Broken with Cheating and Scamming running the gambit. Those of you who think everyone is doing and playing Fairly are FOOLS. 

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6 hours ago, Admiral_Thrawn_1 said:

They could be grinding the credit and Captain XP Missions in Halsey or other Campaigns without the risk of tarnishing their stats in other Battkemodrs with the Summer Teams creating 24/7 weekend quality teams until School starts again. Honestly I don’t blame players for grinding that in Clan Battles since I only made painful progress in Randoms recently and truth be told the bulk of my progress recently has been in Clan Wars for Halsey Campaign.

I agree. The worldwide numbers are not that impressive when you start doing the math. I think the mode really only appeals to a tiny group of players, the rest just kind of farm rewards until they get tired of it or like you said, play CW to protect their stats. 

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We swapped division lead, and the game randomly decided we were now Bravo team so we lost 3 games playing in Bravo accidentally until someone noticed.

If people have similar experiences it will suck.

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45 minutes ago, Amatsukaze_DD said:

Someone sponsor [YIKES] and buy us crates so we can actually play bravo rating.

OP also didn't mention the tightened MM spread this season, meaning hurricane fights only hurricane/typh 1 clans with normal MM. MM only gets widened when you reach 10 minute queue times or w/e. That's another huge part of the reason teams won't/can't/don't climb past typhoon 2. The time spent waiting for a game is actually straight up off putting.

edit for some other poster asking why a top tier clan would bother playing bravo rating in the first place; the answer is fxp farm. A good team playing on bravo and running full FXP bonuses + camo can easily pull 22k+ FXP per match. While most of us don't *really* have a good use for that fxp, it lets us completely skip the grind on new lines cuz most of us are done with/close to finishing all our line, or buy things like krons/sushi/alaska just for keks without having to drop dubs to convert or grind for the next millenium. Why bother playing randoms and clubbing people at t10 when you could get a potentially (actual) good match and get 20k+ fxp at the same time.

omg please help, buy us crates.

Hmm didn't know they changed the MM spread.   That's pretty crappy for teams up high....

 

I think i saw up to a 20min que last season when in first place.   Hopefully it doesn't get worse than that....

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