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Come on Ranger What were you thinking?

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34 planes? Ranger has a hanger capacity of 58 planes after the reloads?  I mean come on I shot down over half of his air group.  A tier 7 CV is no match for a US BB with an AA build  My AA defense rating is 100.  I mean come on man really?  I'd honestly like to know what you were thinking.

shot-18.07.22_11.25.21-0304.jpg

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73 aircraft in the hanger, so 34 from that would leave 39 planes. 

And as I have no shot of the mini map, I can take one obvious guess to a potential reason - your all alone. And possibly, the only one that's all alone. Or at least the only one he can find, with little/no aa cover from fighters or a cruiser, and he can't tell till he attacks you at best if you have an AA build and even at that point it may well be a desperate attempt to do SOMETHING. I don't want to attack a Mo with an Essex, let alone Ranger, but if my team isn't killing the enemy cruisers with even stupider AA levels well, I know I still stand a better chance of at least getting a couple through and actually hitting the Mo over anything near the cruisers, let alone the cruisers themselves. 

 

This is also the exact reason us CV players want AA nerfed, and the more reasonable of us are willing to eat nerfs to the CV's as well so AA can be brought back to a reasonable level. The only lone, non-CV ship that can down 50% of a CV's planes should be MAYBE the highest tier cruisers of USN, with full AA builds and DFAA going. Iowa's all by themselves should be able to knock a few down, but not near 50% even if it's a -2 CV. This is why CV players are frustrated and want buffs to their ships or nerfs to the others, BB's have that kind of AA now, and cruisers have always been an issue but hey there role was to defend against CV's in game, which left us with only DD's as a target but Wargaming doesn't want CV's focusing on them and has buffed some of them and all that now even some of those are out of bounds. 50/72 to a Kidd because of a storm. 

 

Especially if the teams losing, we'll attack any target we at least stand a snowball's chance against. If the only open target is an AA build Iowa class, so be it, better than waiting 4 minutes doing nothing only to have to attack it anyway because it's still the only target you have any chance of hitting. 

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That's nothing. I had a Lexington keep flying planes over my AA fit Minotaur one time. Ended up with 50 plane kills. The guy just couldn't take a hint, I guess.

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In one of my matches I had a CV rush headfirst into the enemy @Kebobstuzov can verify. (although it seems he was having desync issues?)

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I'd probably yolo my planes with that T9 mm. MM is unforgiving on CVs when bottom tiered by +2. It is especially vexing when you are a T6 CV.

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I guess no one hovers their mouse over that team screen to find out the AA rating of the enemy ships.  That should be the first thing you do.  Then you choose which targets to go after based on opportunity.  If you're uptiered, this is extremely important.  That's why xp and credits should be normalized away from simply damage.  It's that need to do damage that makes CVs throw planes away.  You can shoot down 50 enemy planes, have a ton of spotting damage, but only do 50k actual damage and walk away with 150k credits and 2k xp.

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I never get this, I had a Ryojo try to cross drop my AA build Colorado and I killed every plane before he could drop, he even pulled back his DB squad and I never saw a single plane the rest is the match. No CVs ever attack my Texas either and I never see CVs in my NC

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19 hours ago, WanderingGhost said:

This is also the exact reason us CV players want AA nerfed, and the more reasonable of us are willing to eat nerfs to the CV's as well so AA can be brought back to a reasonable level. The only lone, non-CV ship that can down 50% of a CV's planes should be MAYBE the highest tier cruisers of USN, with full AA builds and DFAA going. Iowa's all by themselves should be able to knock a few down, but not near 50% even if it's a -2 CV. This is why CV players are frustrated and want buffs to their ships or nerfs to the others, BB's have that kind of AA now, and cruisers have always been an issue but hey there role was to defend against CV's in game, which left us with only DD's as a target but Wargaming doesn't want CV's focusing on them and has buffed some of them and all that now even some of those are out of bounds. 50/72 to a Kidd because of a storm. 

Instead of arguing for an AA nerf, why not argue for an end to uptiering of CVs? The Ranger would have been ok against other T7s. I've seen many matches in which a T7-8 CV driver simply went AFK rather than play T9-10s. 

Of course, if CVs had their own mode, instead of being in Randoms, everything we be ok.

 

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I did shoot down over 40 during the Space battles thing. With the Norma/Mino. Total CV noob play, I guess the same thing just happened to you. Of all the things to go after...a MO? 

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1 hour ago, Taichunger said:

Instead of arguing for an AA nerf, why not argue for an end to uptiering of CVs? The Ranger would have been ok against other T7s. I've seen many matches in which a T7-8 CV driver simply went AFK rather than play T9-10s. 

Of course, if CVs had their own mode, instead of being in Randoms, everything we be ok.

 

The Ranger is not okay even among Tier VII's.  It's absolute garbage.  The only thing Ranger is effective against is another POS Ranger.

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It happens - sometimes by accident - sometimes after you've shredded half their hanger, they just get bent on destroying you at all costs.

Case in point:

I sure do miss the T9 Balti, it was one of my favorite ships in the game.  The T8 version is OK, but it just isn't the same.

I really should try the Buffalo - but haven't been able to bring myself to do it.

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14 minutes ago, ddoubletapp1 said:

It happens - sometimes by accident - sometimes after you've shredded half their hanger, they just get bent on destroying you at all costs.

Case in point:

I sure do miss the T9 Balti, it was one of my favorite ships in the game.  The T8 version is OK, but it just isn't the same.

I really should try the Buffalo - but haven't been able to bring myself to do it.

Your replay was pretty jumpy.  Are you using obs?  You may want to up your recording speed to 60 frames a second.  I did that and it worked much better no lag spikes in the replay.  But I bet that CV was pretty ticked off lol.  I also keep my chat box disabled so they can't gripe to me about killing all their planes so I find it amusing.

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2 hours ago, Taichunger said:

Instead of arguing for an AA nerf, why not argue for an end to uptiering of CVs? The Ranger would have been ok against other T7s. I've seen many matches in which a T7-8 CV driver simply went AFK rather than play T9-10s. 

Of course, if CVs had their own mode, instead of being in Randoms, everything we be ok.

 

For starters being top tier 24/7 would be boring as hell, and that isn't my goal. I personally would like to face ships that are a higher tier, and therefore have slightly higher AA and have to maybe watch out for. And their own game mode would either A: be against bots, which is stupid and boring, or B: CV vs CV, which especially with how strafing and all is, would be incredibly stupid and boring, and an added dose of frustrating.

The other is that, despite what the post you quote would indicate, I don't simply want AA nerfed, I want it, and CV's as a whole, balanced. Does that mean lowering the AA on some of the high end ships - yes. But I also think that some of the low tiers need a bit of a buff as well. And as much as I want the actual DPS lowered, would like to see the AA and secondary range mods combined back in to a single mod. And I understand that there are scenario's we CV players do need our manual drops namely with torps, and that they are, as is, overpowered, and that the best solution that keeps them unchanged, but reduces effectiveness, while allowing AA to be lowered where needed, is to lower the alpha damage of CV's. If we get AA to a reasonable level across all tiers, change that upgrade to one again, lower CV damage, and they are still too effective - I'm actually open to giving all ships a charge or two of DF AA that is short duration and at most has a 1.25 multiplier like CV's (or at most, a 25% damage increase) though I'd prefer it have no damage increase, but simply scatter the planes to impeded there accuracy because there is a difference between the 2-3 torps I still hit with on a manual drop cause of DF AA vs the entire 4-6. 

 

Conversely, as AA buffs were meant to cancel out manual torp drops, if Wargaming is unwilling to nerf higher tier AA and buff lower tiers that need it (Texas needs no buff), then while we can not fix the low tier issue at that point (because these lower level planes need HP to survive against some of the AA monsters they see) then at the very least I'd argue that USN Dive Bombers receive a buff to HP. As well as preferably a buff to accuracy so take Lex with a 142w x 355l meter drop circle, reduce it to say, 110 x 300m - still 25% longer than the AP drop circle and Twice as wide, giving us a bit more accuracy against BB's, maybe cruisers, most DD's will likely still be able to dodge or simply be missed, as their size is still small by comparison - a Fletcher is just about 115m long and only 12 wide. still leaves 44 meters to either side and 92.6 meters fore and aft for bombs to fall. 

DD's should still be harder to nail, it makes the DB's USN is supposed to have as it's main weapon more reliable at damage (USN's real issue through the years other than OP fighters that Wargaming finally figured out the changes, but did them wrong and made them stronger) as well as able to survive AA reasonably and be able to send in groups separately, as well as actually try and wear down some of the AA on these ships so they can bring in the weaker TB's, or make use of fires for damage over time, and still have AA otherwise to shred TB's. 

Break it down to numbers, rounding a couple numbers up a point or two (literally) for simplicity my Iowa at 7.2 km opens up with 200 DPS - lacking the 25% damage increase upgrade, manual AA, and not selecting a target. Planes are in that for roughly 6 seconds, before hitting the 40 mm guns that add another 400 DPS, to 600. And they are in that for another 6 seconds roughly before hitting the 20 mm guns, another 260 DPS, for a total of 860 DPS - for 8 seconds. Plane HP Max on Lex DB's - 1764 currently. So, 6 seconds at 11.33% chance to be shot down, another 6 at 34%, and about 8 at 48.75%. And that's just on the way in to the target and hitting it, assuming no quirks like adjustments or the ship moving toward or away from the planes (decreasing and increasing times respectively). Can see where sending a single group even without the 30% focus buff and not a full AA build can end badly in a hurry. Even an increase just to 2000 max hp would improve the odds by 1%, 4%, and nearly 6%. But, that's also why I lean towards adjusting the AA instead, because it shes ships like New Mexico, which, it's entire AA suite is only capable of 231.6 DPS. A bit more with focus and/or manual AA. And it doesn't have the same max AA range it tops out maybe 6 km. Which is about 3 seconds less overall in AA. Realistically at that point your lucky to get a plane or two. But as I said, I would like to see some of the lower tier AA buffed. I do think Texas goes a bit far for it's tier. out of the box your looking at around 30.7% once the DB's get in to 20 mm range, forget adding the 20% of BFT, 10% from the flag and 30% of focused fire to that DPS. But, especially with the planes having changed away from the old Biplanes, I think the general concept is right, to have some of the later war modifications of these ships. Which while sure, I'd say lower the DPS of Iowa, I'd actually say bring a ship like New Mexico, that sees the same planes, up to the standards I find for it's 2 sisters, which would be an increase to the number of "dual purpose" 127/25 guns, which I believe her sisters got up to 14-16 of those, or Idaho, which had, if I read correctly 10 later model 127/38 guns in single mounts which, is still 2 more guns, a little more range, and a slight DPS per barrel increase, Maybe lean more towards Idaho as I know her 20 mm guns were added in stages, and only 10 quad 40 mm (roughly 150 DPS) as opposed to 13 (around 195) that can keep a bit to history to a particular set up (always prefer when we can do that) Second stage at 27x1 20 mm would be about 97 DPS, which would at least double her mid and short range DPS, overall closer to at least 300 DPS before BFT and other bonuses. Full Idaho build would likely top out around 405 DPS without bonuses, Mississippi (lower range 127/25's but more of them plus additional quad bofors) would top out around 440 DPS base. Though, if we went that far, the low tier attack planes would need a slight HP buff to compensate. 

 

And sorry for the long over detailed wall of text. Unfortunately because I play all the ships I'm an oddity as someone who, if CV's were balanced right would main them, as I understand both sides of the arguments and both are right and wrong in areas, and basically in the middle as in some areas, other ships need to be buffed against them, or the CV's nerfed, and others CV's need a buff, or the other ships need a nerf. Which is why I say they are truly broken because, like with AA, put a Lex vs an Iowa, only a tier higher than it, the planes get stomped on but, other end of the spectrum, it can basically waltz through NM's AA. On one end, you need to make it better vs Iowa, however, at the same time you have to make it worse vs NM, easiest way to do that (unless your the ship models guy with what I put above) is to simply change the AA guns. A lot of these ships, least ones that made it to the second world wars mid-late stages, had about as much AA as some of the newer ships. At this point most everything that really sees true higher tiers (5-9) has aircraft from right before or during the war. Some still have of course even more guns at higher tiers, which gives them more, but then DPS scales a bit smoother, meaning you can better adjust the aircraft to a point that against a higher tier opponent, it won't be as easy to get planes through, but not an act of futility, but will not simply have free reign to waltz through a lower tiers AA and blow them out of the water, on occasion when things bug out, literally. 

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1 hour ago, ddoubletapp1 said:

I sure do miss the T9 Balti, it was one of my favorite ships in the game.  The T8 version is OK, but it just isn't the same.

I never played the tier 9 version, I actually love the 8. Eats planes when a CV shows up and have trolled many BB's with that AP actually doing damage as the shoot broadside at me but the thing just bounces shells they shoot at me. It's more like a light BB than Heavy cruiser for me.

54 minutes ago, torpsRus said:

I also keep my chat box disabled so they can't gripe to me about killing all their planes so I find it amusing.

Outside of joking, they really shouldn't be griping at you, they should be griping at the guys that made the game and haven't balanced it right with CV's for about 3-4 years counting alpha. 

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17 minutes ago, WanderingGhost said:

I never played the tier 9 version, I actually love the 8. Eats planes when a CV shows up and have trolled many BB's with that AP actually doing damage as the shoot broadside at me but the thing just bounces shells they shoot at me. It's more like a light BB than Heavy cruiser for me.

Outside of joking, they really shouldn't be griping at you, they should be griping at the guys that made the game and haven't balanced it right with CV's for about 3-4 years counting alpha. 

Your right being top tier on a regular basis does get old.  That's why I switch off time to time I'll drop down to tier 8 or even drop way down to tier 5.  Even at tier 8 in a dd it gets old being top tier.  I fully agree, but again though it's fun a lot of the times to just really annoy the living daylights out of a lower tiered CV player lol.

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Another thing that makes the Tier VIII USN BBs' AA dangerous to equal or lower tier CVs is that the heart of their AA, the 127mm DP guns, are pretty tough.  Yes, there's tons of 40mm and all that, and those can get rekt, but the 127mm DP turrets survive more.  I've had my Alabama get spammed mercilessly by a Schors and Atlanta, setting me on fire and all that, multiple times over.  The center of the ship was scorched black.  HP dipped down sharply.  Despite all this battering, when the Tier VII CV came to finally attack me, I ravaged all her bombers.

 

The CV even wondered how was that so?  He waited to let Atlanta, Schors wear my AA down, yet I shredded the planes afterwards.

All I did was have AAM1 upgrade slotted and those DP guns become much more durable.  As soon as those planes entered the 7.2km window, they were dropping like flies.

 

There are Tier VI-VII CVs without the experience, so when they run into such BBs, they get surprised badly.  Sometimes I'll sail my AA BB alone, out in the open to dare a CV to come for me.  When I see a Ryujo, Independence, Kaga (Tier Vi planes) come for me, I can only smile.  I do this when I know my AA has clear superiority over the CV.  But I would not do this with NC, Alabama. even Kii, against the likes of a Tier IX-X CV.  That's a whole other sort of air threat level.

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