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UltimateNewbie

WoWS General Discussion Forum - Standard Words

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Many of us forum regulars have noticed that the same old threads keep coming up, time and time again.  Recently, I have become concerned that my responses to these regular themes are becoming shorter, sharper and less helpful.  I am beginning to think that this is a bit unfair on those posters, who didnt see the 50 previous threads on this topic and study their responses in detail, instead they only see the current (unhelpful) responses like popcorn.  

So, I thought I'd preparing some standard responses to common WoWS General DIscussion forum threads that were, you know, helpful and positive.  And then I thought: why just hoard such a resource just to myself? Hence, this thread - feel free to draw on these standard responses when the next threads are made, in addition to the popcorn. 

I will add/expand to them over time.  Did I miss anything?

List of topics is below: 

  • Matchmaker
    • Is against me, putting me on the losing team or causing me to lose all the time
    • +/- 2 tiers is unfair/unfun
  • Submarines
  • Detonations
  • Radar
    • Goes through islands, and is unrealistic
    • Too much (particularly at high tiers) and should be abolished
  • Alabamagate
  • Karma is re-tarded
  • Team Damage is re-tarded
  • Missions - I hate do X and win requirements
  • New Player
    • What do the various ship classes/types do?
    • What is the best line for new players?

 

Matchmaker - Is against me, putting me on the losing team or causing me to lose all the time

Spoiler

Yes, losing can be frustrating, particularly when you lose quite a few matches in a row, but the good news is that you don’t need your team to win in order to keep improving yourself. Players who critically reflect on what just happened (eg, I was too focused on shooting down range and didn’t change my course and speed, that’s why I just ate a bunch of torps), surprisingly rapidly improves your overall play. I, even still, get a feeling of “shouldn’t do this, but going to anyway” immediately prior to getting killed - it makes the critical reflection much easier. 

  • I strongly recommend you watch this youtube video on how to set up your game client to give you the information you need to engage in more advanced tactics and gameplay.  Things like detection ranges on your minimap are simple but greatly assist understanding where enemies must be if you've just been detected.  
  • Once you've been playing a bit more and are ready for more advanced play - particularly if you start caring about your personal stats - I suggest you read @LittleWhiteMouse's guide to controlling your win rate.  It is very important to adopt a positive/growth mentality early in this game.  Dont be a victim to the whims of matchmaker. 

#StandardWords

 

Matchmaker -  +/- 2 tiers is unfair/unfun

Spoiler

To give the reply no-one wants to hear, being put against enemies two tiers higher than you should force you to take a different strategy and approach to the ship than if you were two tiers higher than your enemies. WG says that this is working as intended.  It is meant to add more variety in play to the same number of ships (for players who are interested in doing well, of course). 

For instance, when you are a Tier 5 Omaha with its sonar, torps and heaps of fast-firing guns and you see a V-170 camping in smoke you have a strong advantage; however, a Tier 7 battleship Lyon sees that same Omaha as food.  Even though you're in the same Omaha, potentially on the same map, you have to play differently in order to be succesful - charging in might work when you're top tier, but will just get you killed when you're bottom tier.  

You need to adapt your playstyle - does the enemy have lots of gunboat DDs, or are they stealth torpers?  Do I have a lot of squishy fire-starting cruisers on my team that are near caps so I can smoke for them?  Do I camp in smoke and spam fires on enemy battleships 2 tiers higher than me, earning massive XP? This is a different style to if you were the bully, where you can just drive into caps and pwn people. 

Remember, as a bottom tier ship, noone really expects you to carry the team to a win (so no pressure) - though if I see someone do it, I compliment them after the battle (+karma). 

The skills you learn (the hard way) at Tier 5 are very helpful in higher tier play. 

 

Submarines

Spoiler

Whilst I can understand your desire to expand this game into submarines, which is an obvious direction to go into, there are two main reasons why it wont happen: 

  • Game balance trumps realism; and
  • The developers have explicitly ruled it out on multiple occasions.  

SUbmarines simply wont work in this game because: 

  • They are typically very slow compared to surface ships - their submerged speed didnt really take off until the mid-cold war. So, once caught, they cant run - just die. Combined with big maps (particularly at higher tiers), game time would expire before they could do anything meaningful.  
  • They are weakly armed compared to surface ships - if surfaced, they would only have 1-2 guns; whereas most DDs have 4-6 guns. They would have 4-6 torpedo tubes, but can only fire a few degrees forward.
  • They are extremely vulnerable to incoming fire - if surfaced, 1 gun hit would probably prevent them from diving; if dived, they cant do anything effective against in-game opponents. 

Most importantly, their role as stealthy fleet spotters that could fire torpedoes to kill capital ships is already performed by destroyers in this game - thus they dont add anything.

Submarines will not be added to the game (except as an April Fool's joke, ala 2017). 

#StandardWords

 

Detonations

Spoiler

Whilst I understand your frustration with being detonated, ultimately, warship detonations are historically accurate and did happen surprisingly often.  The game probably, if anything, under represents the number of detonations that actually occured. 

In WoWS, the mechanic was recently changed so that a player can only be detonated if their HP was below 75 per cent.  I think this is a reasonable compromise, given you can also hoist up a little coloured rag (in the form of a Juliette Charlie signal) to 100% prevent detonations ever.  

Remember, the developers' motto of 'balance trumps realism'; given the realistic mechanic of detonations is not unbalanced, it wont be removed.  

Btw, if you claim that you were detonated whilst using the flag, then you're wrong.  No video evidence has ever been provided to show that the flag doesnt work.  You may have been hit by a Devastating Strike instead of Detonations.  

#StandardWords

 

Radar - Goes through islands, and is unrealistic

 

Radar - Too much (particularly at high tiers) and should be abolished

 

Karma is re-tarded

Spoiler

The purpose of the karma system is to provide a small (psychological) reward for good play and a small penalty for poor play, in the hands of players to help promote good play.  

I am a big user of the Karma system.  Generally, I give out far more positive karma than negative, and I'd wish the positive limit was 50 per cent more than the negative.  

I generally give out positive karma for: 

  • Players on my team who were bottom tier but topped the team's ladder, whether win or loss (as @soshi_sona posted above); 
  • Players on my team who topped the team's ladder and had a big jump to the next best player (like 400 XP or more); 
  • Players who didnt do well on the scoreboard, but did their job really well - typically when they were massively outnumbered on the weak flank and held off the enemy for ages. 
    • I really like giving pos rep for this, but I dont notice it as often as I would like. 
  • Players who go out of their way to help me out - particularly when not asked but have read the flow of battle really well. 
    • For instance, DDs who smoke their team; or
    • Carriers who go spot enemy dds, or spectacularly nailed a major threat, or killed a bunch of attack planes who were about to nail me. 
  • Players who, in chat, genuinely help someone with questions in the game.  

I generally give out negative karma for: 

  • Top tier players on my team who are bottom of the team ladder and absolutely fail (as in, 300XP or less) for "plays poorly"; because, if not them, then who?
    • This does not apply if they are detonated, as aint nobody got time for that. 
  • Players who are fairly abusive or toxic in chat, on either team. 
  • Deliberate (as opposed to accidental) teamkillers, on either team.  Though I've found these are pretty rare. 

I find it is a system that works pretty well. At least, for me.  

#StandardWords

 

Team Damage is re-tarded

 

Missions - I hate do X and win requirements

Spoiler

I do understand the frustration of almost completing the task, only for the team to lose.  But I would be careful for what I wished for.

Firstly, removing the win condition will result in players - including on your team - suicidng early in an attempt to get enough torpedo hits (or whatever the condition was).  This resulted in much frustration posted on these forums as players complained - loudly - that they kept losing cos their team was too busy yoloing and the event was encouraging it. A win condition means you can’t just yolo. 

Secondly, changing the conditions so that they were substantially easier would mean that far more players would be driving around in the reward ships (such as the Indianapolis, from the last event). Or, WG would  instead increase the number of kills to make it a long, long grind.

#StandardWords

 

New Player - What do the various ship classes/types do?

Spoiler

Conceptually, the ship types - in a very general sense, with exceptions - fall into the following roles:

  • Destroyers (DDs): Stealthy ninjas - they use their speed and concealment to set up ambush attacks on enemy capital ships with their torpedos, and they use their fast firing but low damage guns against other destroyers. 
    • Note: some DDs are better at killing enemy dds (like American DDs), and others are better at killing enemy capital ships with torpedos (like Japanese DDs) - this national flavour is common to this game, and you'll have to learn this as you go. 
  • Cruisers (CA/CLs): High damage-per-minute and accurate guns, but very squishy (ie, easy to kill) ships - their fast firing and moderate damage guns wreck destroyers and can put serious hurt into battleships if they are left unmolested... they are extremely vulnerable to enemy battleship guns in particular as they have no effective armour - instead, they must use hard cover (like islands) and smoke screens (including those deployed by friendly destroyers) to stay alive long enough to bring their firepower onto the enemy - caught out in the open, they do a lot of dying. 
    • Cruisers are possibly the hardest conventional class to do well in. 
    • CA = Heavy Cruiser (ie, armed wuth 8 inch guns or higher), and CLs = Light Cruiser (ie, armed with 6 inch guns or smaller). 
  • Battleships (BBs): High Alpha, usually low-ish damage per minute ships that can strike from  relatively long range - they are less accurate than cruisers, but by late tiers you dont really feel the difference. They have high hitpoints, and strong armour, but that does not make you immune to damage - torpedos, fires and battleship guns can all bring you down.  As you tend to be slow and not agile, make sure you are always near teammates in cruisers and destroyers who can help you screen faster/lighter enemies away from you.  
  • Aircraft carriers (CVs): A completely different style of play, more like an RTS like Command&Conquer than the FPS of the other styles.  Dominance of the air means that you can spot enemy ships, use dive bombers or torpedo bombers to attack enemy ships, and use your fighters to protect friendly ships from enemy carrier attacks.  
    • Carriers have a massively disproportionate impact on your team's chances of winning - do badly, and you'll keep losing.

Once you have a few more battles under your belt, I strongly encourage you to read the following: 

#StandardWords

 

New Player - What is the best line for new players?

Spoiler

For new players, I recommend the following as easy to learn and to play: 

  • Destroyers: American destroyers are the easiest to play - their fast firing guns, and torpedoes on both sides (at low tier) means that its a fast, fun run-and-gun style, with great smoke screens.  They are very forgiving - rush in, gun enemy destroyers, and if you win and live, then rush up to a battleship and shove him up with torps... once you get more experience, you can do all of those things better, faster, longer etc. 
  • Cruisers: French cruisers are probably the easiest to play at low-mid tiers. Load HE, shoot slow targets at near your max range to set them on fire - when they repair those fires, set more.  Dodge incoming shells (particularly from battleships) by slamming into full reverse and throwing the rudder over into a hard turn - then accelerate away again before the next salvo comes.  Use your long-range torpedos to shoot down narrow alleys where the enemy is coming from - sometimes you'll get a hit, and it'll be great. More fires!
    • DO NOT start on the British Cruiser line - these ships take detailed understanding and experience of the game mechanics in order to play; things like target selection, map positioning, map awareness, spotting mechanics, AP bounce and shatter mechanics, smoke screens, fire detection range in smoke, sonar and torpedo aim all to be functional. Experienced players even struggle with this line.  Steer clear.  
  • Battleships: 
    • British: These are sturdy battleships that have excellent HE direct damage and high fire chance - unlike most battleships, shooting HE at things will make them go boom. Because of that, and because they have decent armour protection generally, these battleships are easy to learn: aim well, and profit. 
    • German: Much stronger armour, but wonky/inaccurate main guns - you'll mostly be shooting AP shells at enemy battleships and cruisers.  However, your battleships have good to excellent secondary battery (particularly from Tier 7) and are a defining feature of the line.  Because they are meant to be played up close to the enemy, these ships are easier to aim, take solid damage, and encourage your team to push the capture point you're currently on, helping to win games. 
  • Aircraft carriers: Personally, I suggest avoiding them entirely for now - they are very different to play and hard to do well at (and carriers have a massively disproportionate impact on your team's chances of winning - do badly, and you'll keep losing).  Whilst the first American Carrier, Langley, is the best at Tier 4, the Japanese (IJN) tech tree carriers from Tier 5 and up are superior to massively superior to their American carriers (for no historical reason). 

Once you have a few more battles under your belt, I strongly encourage you to read the following: 

#StandardWords

 

Edited by UltimateNewbie
  • Cool 4
  • Funny 1

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Looks good so far I look forward to the more controversial ones you haven't done yet. 

You may want to change some words too.  Not sure how sensitive the mods are and I know it wasn't directed toward anyone, but still you have a nice post maybe make it a bit cleaner.

Edited by mrh308

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Nothing about CVs, Graf Zep, detonations....

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1 hour ago, UltimateNewbie said:

Many of us forum regulars have noticed that the same old threads keep coming up, time and time again.  Recently, I have become concerned that my responses to these regular themes are becoming shorter, sharper and less helpful.  I am beginning to think that this is a bit unfair on those posters, who didnt see the 50 previous threads on this topic and study their responses in detail, instead they only see the current (unhelpful) responses like popcorn.  

So, I thought I'd preparing some standard responses to common WoWS General DIscussion forum threads that were, you know, helpful and positive.  And then I thought: why just hoard such a resource just to myself? Hence, this thread - feel free to draw on these standard responses when the next threads are made, in addition to the popcorn. 

I will add/expand to them over time.  Did I miss anything?

List of topics is below: 

  • Matchmaker
    • Is against me, putting me on the losing team or causing me to lose all the time
    • +/- 2 tiers is unfair/unfun
  • Submarines
  • Radar
    • Goes through islands, and is unrealistic
    • Too much (particularly at high tiers) and should be abolished
  • Alabamagate
  • Karma is re-tarded
  • Team Damage is re-tarded
  • Missions - I hate do X and win requirements
  • New Player
    • What do the various ship classes/types do?
    • What is the best line for new players?

 

Matchmaker - Is against me, putting me on the losing team or causing me to lose all the time

  Reveal hidden contents

Yes, losing can be frustrating, particularly when you lose quite a few matches in a row, but the good news is that you don’t need your team to win in order to keep improving yourself. Players who critically reflect on what just happened (eg, I was too focused on shooting down range and didn’t change my course and speed, that’s why I just ate a bunch of torps), surprisingly rapidly improves your overall play. I, even still, get a feeling of “shouldn’t do this, but going to anyway” immediately prior to getting killed - it makes the critical reflection much easier. 

  • I strongly recommend you watch this youtube video on how to set up your game client to give you the information you need to engage in more advanced tactics and gameplay.  Things like detection ranges on your minimap are simple but greatly assist understanding where enemies must be if you've just been detected.  
  • Once you've been playing a bit more and are ready for more advanced play - particularly if you start caring about your personal stats - I suggest you read @LittleWhiteMouse's guide to controlling your win rate.  It is very important to adopt a positive/growth mentality early in this game.  Dont be a victim to the whims of matchmaker. 

#StandardWords

 

Matchmaker -  +/- 2 tiers is unfair/unfun

  Reveal hidden contents

To give the reply no-one wants to hear, being put against enemies two tiers higher than you should force you to take a different strategy and approach to the ship than if you were two tiers higher than your enemies*. WG says that this is working as intended.  It is meant to add more variety in play to the same number of ships (for players who are interested in doing well, of course). 

For instance, when you a Tier 4 V-170 camping in smoke, seeing an Omaha charge you with its sonar, torps and heaps of fast-firing guns is very troubbling; however, a Tier 7 battleship Lyon sees that same Omaha as food.  Even though you're in the same Omaha, potentially on the same map, you have to play differently in order to be succesful - charging in might work when you're top tier, but will just get you killed when you're bottom tier.  

You need to adapt your playstyle - does the enemy have lots of gunboat DDs, or are they stealth torpers?  Do I have a lot of squishy fire-starting cruisers on my team that are near caps so I can smoke for them?  Do I camp in smoke and spam fires on enemy battleships 2 tiers higher than me, earning massive XP? This is a different style to if you were the bully, where you can just drive into caps and pwn people. 

Remember, as a bottom tier ship, noone really expects you to carry the team to a win (so no pressure) - though if I see someone do it, I compliment them after the battle (+karma). 

The skills you learn (the hard way) at Tier 5 are very helpful in higher tier play. 

#StandardWords

 

Submarines

 

Radar - Goes through islands, and is unrealistic

 

Radar - Too much (particularly at high tiers) and should be abolished

 

Karma is re-tarded

  Reveal hidden contents

The purpose of the karma system is to provide a small (psychological) reward for good play and a small penalty for poor play, in the hands of players to help promote good play.  

I am a big user of the Karma system.  Generally, I give out far more positive karma than negative, and I'd wish the positive limit was 50 per cent more than the negative.  

I generally give out positive karma for: 

  • Players on my team who were bottom tier but topped the team's ladder, whether win or loss (as @soshi_sona posted above); 
  • Players on my team who topped the team's ladder and had a big jump to the next best player (like 400 XP or more); 
  • Players who didnt do well on the scoreboard, but did their job really well - typically when they were massively outnumbered on the weak flank and held off the enemy for ages. 
    • I really like giving pos rep for this, but I dont notice it as often as I would like. 
  • Players who go out of their way to help me out - particularly when not asked but have read the flow of battle really well. 
    • For instance, DDs who smoke their team; or
    • Carriers who go spot enemy dds, or spectacularly nailed a major threat, or killed a bunch of attack planes who were about to nail me. 
  • Players who, in chat, genuinely help someone with questions in the game.  

I generally give out negative karma for: 

  • Top tier players on my team who are bottom of the team ladder and absolutely fail (as in, 300XP or less) for "plays poorly"; because, if not them, then who?
    • This does not apply if they are detonated, as aint nobody got time for that. 
  • Players who are fairly abusive or toxic in chat, on either team. 
  • Deliberate (as opposed to accidental) teamkillers, on either team.  Though I've found these are pretty rare. 

I find it is a system that works pretty well. At least, for me.  

#StandardWords

 

Team Damage is re-tarded

 

Missions - I hate do X and win requirements

  Reveal hidden contents

I do understand the frustration of almost completing the task, only for the team to lose.  But I would be careful for what I wished for.

Firstly, removing the win condition will result in players - including on your team - suicidng early in an attempt to get enough torpedo hits (or whatever the condition was).  This resulted in much frustration posted on these forums as players complained - loudly - that they kept losing cos their team was too busy yoloing and the event was encouraging it. A win condition means you can’t just yolo. 

Secondly, changing the conditions so that they were substantially easier would mean that far more players would be driving around in the reward ships (such as the Indianapolis, from the last event). Or, WG would  instead increase the number of kills to make it a long, long grind.

#StandardWords

 

New Player - What do the various ship classes/types do?

  Reveal hidden contents

Conceptually, the ship types - in a very general sense, with exceptions - fall into the following roles:

  • Destroyers (DDs): Stealthy ninjas - they use their speed and concealment to set up ambush attacks on enemy capital ships with their torpedos, and they use their fast firing but low damage guns against other destroyers. 
    • Note: some DDs are better at killing enemy dds (like American DDs), and others are better at killing enemy capital ships with torpedos (like Japanese DDs) - this national flavour is common to this game, and you'll have to learn this as you go. 
  • Cruisers (CA/CLs): High damage-per-minute and accurate guns, but very squishy (ie, easy to kill) ships - their fast firing and moderate damage guns wreck destroyers and can put serious hurt into battleships if they are left unmolested... they are extremely vulnerable to enemy battleship guns in particular as they have no effective armour - instead, they must use hard cover (like islands) and smoke screens (including those deployed by friendly destroyers) to stay alive long enough to bring their firepower onto the enemy - caught out in the open, they do a lot of dying. 
    • Cruisers are possibly the hardest conventional class to do well in. 
    • CA = Heavy Cruiser (ie, armed wuth 8 inch guns or higher), and CLs = Light Cruiser (ie, armed with 6 inch guns or smaller). 
  • Battleships (BBs): High Alpha, usually low-ish damage per minute ships that can strike from  relatively long range - they are less accurate than cruisers, but by late tiers you dont really feel the difference. They have high hitpoints, and strong armour, but that does not make you immune to damage - torpedos, fires and battleship guns can all bring you down.  As you tend to be slow and not agile, make sure you are always near teammates in cruisers and destroyers who can help you screen faster/lighter enemies away from you.  
  • Aircraft carriers (CVs): A completely different style of play, more like an RTS like Command&Conquer than the FPS of the other styles.  Dominance of the air means that you can spot enemy ships, use dive bombers or torpedo bombers to attack enemy ships, and use your fighters to protect friendly ships from enemy carrier attacks.  
    • Carriers have a massively disproportionate impact on your team's chances of winning - do badly, and you'll keep losing.

Once you have a few more battles under your belt, I strongly encourage you to read the following: 

#StandardWords

 

New Player - What is the best line for new players?

  Reveal hidden contents

For new players, I recommend the following as easy to learn and to play: 

  • Destroyers: American destroyers are the easiest to play - their fast firing guns, and torpedoes on both sides (at low tier) means that its a fast, fun run-and-gun style, with great smoke screens.  They are very forgiving - rush in, gun enemy destroyers, and if you win and live, then rush up to a battleship and shove him up with torps... once you get more experience, you can do all of those things better, faster, longer etc. 
  • Cruisers: French cruisers are probably the easiest to play at low-mid tiers. Load HE, shoot slow targets at near your max range to set them on fire - when they repair those fires, set more.  Dodge incoming shells (particularly from battleships) by slamming into full reverse and throwing the rudder over into a hard turn - then accelerate away again before the next salvo comes.  Use your long-range torpedos to shoot down narrow alleys where the enemy is coming from - sometimes you'll get a hit, and it'll be great. More fires!
    • DO NOT start on the British Cruiser line - these ships take detailed understanding and experience of the game mechanics in order to play; things like target selection, map positioning, map awareness, spotting mechanics, AP bounce and shatter mechanics, smoke screens, fire detection range in smoke, sonar and torpedo aim all to be functional. Experienced players even struggle with this line.  Steer clear.  
  • Battleships: 
    • British: These are sturdy battleships that have excellent HE direct damage and high fire chance - unlike most battleships, shooting HE at things will make them go boom. Because of that, and because they have decent armour protection generally, these battleships are easy to learn: aim well, and profit. 
    • German: Much stronger armour, but wonky/inaccurate main guns - you'll mostly be shooting AP shells at enemy battleships and cruisers.  However, your battleships have good to excellent secondary battery (particularly from Tier 7) and are a defining feature of the line.  Because they are meant to be played up close to the enemy, these ships are easier to aim, take solid damage, and encourage your team to push the capture point you're currently on, helping to win games. 
  • Aircraft carriers: Personally, I suggest avoiding them entirely for now - they are very different to play and hard to do well at (and carriers have a massively disproportionate impact on your team's chances of winning - do badly, and you'll keep losing).  Whilst the first American Carrier, Langley, is the best at Tier 4, the Japanese (IJN) tech tree carriers from Tier 5 and up are superior to massively superior to their American carriers (for no historical reason). 

Once you have a few more battles under your belt, I strongly encourage you to read the following: 

#StandardWords

 

Read this book and might give some insight on why some of the IJN CVs in game are superior to the USN versions often times. Until you get to certain tier VIII and and above USN CVs then USN holds its own and even gets better.

IJN started out with the best CV force in the world and had Excellent pilot training, USN only had adequate or good pilot training for a while, but could train more pilots and over time build more CVs so the numbers finally won out.

4053FB2F-54B5-496A-874B-44B37388837C.jpeg.b670a6aa9b0dc680f61e1bf290060803.jpeg

Edited by Admiral_Thrawn_1

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On 7/22/2018 at 12:39 AM, Taichunger said:

Nothing about CVs, Graf Zep, detonations....

Actually, a first draft did include detonations and CVs, but really I dont think detonations are mentioned anywhere nearly as often anymore.  Still, I might do a sentence or two eventually. 

 

Updated reference to Submarines. 

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