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Blackgunner

Offence/Defence Torpedoes

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I feel like we can split Torpedoes up even more.  We have deepwater torpedoes which is a good separation; but what we really need is offensive/defensive torpedo specializations.

 

Defensive Torpedoes: Fast, short ranged, removed arming distance safeties, very high spotting range

Multi-Role Torpedoes: Variety of speeds, ranges, Regular arming distance, Midwater (25% chance of detonation against a destroyer) normal spotting range

Offensive Torpedoes: Very Long Range, 200-300% arming range requirement, Deepwater, low spotting range.

 

 

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Or we could leave them as is, since the only thing about torps (in general) that needs to be changed is the removal of the random spread. 

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6 minutes ago, CarbonButtprint said:

Or we could leave them as is, since the only thing about torps (in general) that needs to be changed is the removal of the random spread. 

Oh yes every nation should be able to fire each torpedo independently.  The idea that some nations somehow lack a mechanism of doing so is idiotic and blatantly stupid even for balance sake.

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13 minutes ago, Blackgunner said:

Oh yes every nation should be able to fire each torpedo independently.  The idea that some nations somehow lack a mechanism of doing so is idiotic and blatantly stupid even for balance sake.

It's called the box'o'gimmicks to sell the RN cruiser and DD line with some extra national flavor. It's not ideal, but it doesn't really hurt the game either.

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21 minutes ago, Blackgunner said:

I feel like we can split Torpedoes up even more.  We have deepwater torpedoes which is a good separation; but what we really need is offensive/defensive torpedo specializations.

 

Defensive Torpedoes: Fast, short ranged, removed arming distance safeties, very high spotting range

Multi-Role Torpedoes: Variety of speeds, ranges, Regular arming distance, Midwater (25% chance of detonation against a destroyer) normal spotting range

Offensive Torpedoes: Very Long Range, 200-300% arming range requirement, Deepwater, low spotting range.

 

 

 

You know what would be fun? Increasing torpedo ranges for all DDs(no Russians though) at Tier IV by 3 km and at Tier V by 4 km. This would indirectly nerf radar(the latter buff only), buff DD torps(not Soviet ones though, I wouldn't), and make DDs more fun to play. Minekaze would have an 11 km range, and Mutsuki a 12 km range. Honestly, with the state of Mutsuki, the latter buff is one that should be seriously considered. Who are WG kidding forcing a ship with only two guns to have a max range of influence on the battle of only 8 km?? Mutsuki should be able to stay out of Radar range and launch torps, because she's one of the worst DDs in the game(Trash-22 excepting, the thing needs to be removed and replaced)Honestly, all ships by tier V that were made had reasonable, non-YOLO torp ranges. At least let the DDs all(but Russian, A, because bias towards everybody else but Russians needs to be the WG thing instead of the opposite, and B, because Russian DDs have too good guns to begin with) have stealth-torping by Tier V. 

 

I was only half-joking in that last paragraph, and the Mutsuki bit and T-22 bit I meant 100%. Mutsuki needs more torpedo range. 10 km wasn't even enough to make her good at Tier VI(where Mutsuki now gets up-tiered into a lot) and whoever approved of nerfing Mutsuki in the process of fitting her into Tier V was an idiot. If 4 guns and 10 km torps couldn't save her once, HOW THE HECK DO THEY EXPECT HER TO DO ANYTHING EVEN OKAY NOW!?

 

T-22, on the other hand, is balanced around a 14-point captain with CE and IFHE at Tier VYes really. A 14-point captain at Tier V to make her at best average.

No, this wasn't a smart move on WG's part. Akizuki's case is at least understandable, being a Tier VIII. But T-22? Heck no. WG should give her German 1/4 HE pen, quite honestly, give her a bit more range on the torps, and make them reload a tiny bit faster, at least. But you know they won't, for, I don't know, REASONS.TM

 

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3 minutes ago, legoboy0401 said:

 

 

Oh boy, Clemson with 8.5 km and Nicholas with 9.5 km Torpedoes :Smile_playing:
I wouldn't even dare thinking about how broken the tier IV and V Pan Asians are gonna be

Edited by The_first_harbinger

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3 minutes ago, The_first_harbinger said:

Oh boy, Clemson with 8.5 km and Nicholas with 9.5 km Torpedoes :Smile_playing:
I wouldn't even dare thinking about how broken the tier IV and V Pan Asians are gonna be

I was joking, but I really would like to see Mutsuki get 12 km torpedoes one of these days.

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38 minutes ago, Blackgunner said:

I feel like we can split Torpedoes up even more.  We have deepwater torpedoes which is a good separation; but what we really need is offensive/defensive torpedo specializations.

 

1.) Defensive Torpedoes: Fast, short ranged, removed arming distance safeties, very high spotting range

2.) Multi-Role Torpedoes: Variety of speeds, ranges, Regular arming distance, Midwater (25% chance of detonation against a destroyer) normal spotting range

3.) Offensive Torpedoes: Very Long Range, 200-300% arming range requirement, Deepwater, low spotting range.

 

 

 

Uhh no. There is so many things wrong with this its not even funny. 

 

1. Remove the arming distance? Yeah no. The whole reason why they exist in real life is so that when you throw torpedoes in the water they don't detonate themselves and sink the ship the instant the torpedo touches the water. Furthermore arming zone also takes into account part of the distance that the torpedo will have to travel through the air after leaving the launcher. So no, the current system works fine. 

 

2. A variety of speeds and ranges? Like what? Is every ship that can carry torpedoes will now be able to select a large amount of different torps? Despite said torps not even existing? Apart form Japan very few nations used torpedoes as a form of attack and it was especially not part of many nations doctrine either. 

 

3.) Total removal of the arming distance? Ha no. If you do that your torpedo would explode the minute it smacks the water. Also very fast? and Super long range? Right because we need even more wall of skill around. 

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6 minutes ago, Incendiary_Tanker said:

 

Uhh no. There is so many things wrong with this its not even funny. 

 

1. Remove the arming distance? Yeah no. The whole reason why they exist in real life is so that when you throw torpedoes in the water they don't detonate themselves and sink the ship the instant the torpedo touches the water. Furthermore arming zone also takes into account part of the distance that the torpedo will have to travel through the air after leaving the launcher. So no, the current system works fine. 

 

2. A variety of speeds and ranges? Like what? Is every ship that can carry torpedoes will now be able to select a large amount of different torps? Despite said torps not even existing? Apart form Japan very few nations used torpedoes as a form of attack and it was especially not part of many nations doctrine either. 

 

3.) Total removal of the arming distance? Ha no. If you do that your torpedo would explode the minute it smacks the water. Also very fast? and Super long range? Right because we need even more wall of skill around. 

It seems like you weren't clear on what was stated.

 

1. Safeties of torpedoes were able to disabled.  This is also an arcade game.

 

2. The variety of speed and ranges accounts for the wide array of different ships and different torpedoes.  No, speed will not be adjustable.  No, there aren't different torpedo variations.  It's literally just taking into account different torpedo designs from different ships that don't fit into specifically defensive or offensive torpedo roles.  More of a jack-of-all-trades role.

 

3.) It's an arcade game.  200-300% arming distance is an increase in the arming distance, not a removal.  3-5km.  We too often see destroyers closing to point blank range, which at these ranges the torps would never arm in time in reality.  This will mitigate suicide runs.  Also, I didn't specify speed.  Low to mid for offensive torps, but with low visibility.

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20 minutes ago, Blackgunner said:

Defensive Torpedoes: Fast, short ranged, removed arming distance safeties, very high spotting range

Multi-Role Torpedoes: Variety of speeds, ranges, Regular arming distance, Midwater (25% chance of detonation against a destroyer) normal spotting range

Offensive Torpedoes: Very Long Range, 200-300% arming range requirement, Deepwater, low spotting range.

1. depends on how you define "defensive". In this case, I'm guessing you mean the likes RU DD's, maybe Scharn/Tirpitz where they are basically point blank defense - in which even as is they are nearly worthless 80% of the time, and that is being generous. crippling them further with a high spotting range would help even less the fact these torps are already highly predictable in usage and even IF they get in range to use them, will have that much more reaction time. Case in point seeing as I did the math earlier and recall it - Shinonome, with torp accel, has 6.4 km range at 68 knots with a 1.6 spotting range - this leaves about 9 seconds for the enemy ship to react. Fletcher, at 2 knots slower torps, but only 1.4 spotting and y'know, actually really usable, is about 8.15 on it's 10 km torps, so I'dsay rough guess Kami R and it's clones with the extra 2 knots are about 8 seconds. You'd be talking a weapon of last resort with idiotically high speeds to try and balance a high spotting range and the fact they would likely be way more predictable, unless you make the ships with them spotted at about 1km. 

2. Multi-role - we don't need to add some useless, frustrating, RNG hit chance to bloody torps that potentially makes them further useless on ships that may already have some struggles or had them nerfed into the ground that the one thing they can do is hit DD's that stay in smoke. Torp spread as it is is enough and should just stay simple.

3. ""offensive" - by which you mean the torps everyone will pretty much use, other than maybe IJN as they are basically the one line that lacks truly worthwhile guns to counter other DD's without torps, and will bring back the good old days of the BB's and cruisers whining that brought us Hydro, radar, overnered IJN torps and numerous buffs to BB agility that will likely be brought back or even increased further, thereby screwing over CV's even more as if they have been bent over enough already. Unless you buff CV's in some way, which starts them whining on that again, and likely leads to more AA buffs that CV's can not handle, as is it's already too damn much.

 

For this to be even remotely feasible as a suggestion, they'd basically have to overhaul how torps work with an RNG component similar to "duds" that they have said they don't want, add another level of complexity, overhaul at least one, maybe more lines of DD's, potentially drastic changes to ship mobility, and in general most likely causing massive destabilization of what balance we have for..... what?? Seriously what the hell even would be the point of it?2-300% arming range? yeah, assuming it's even close to as long as TB arm ranges that's at most 2.4 km and they'd never be that close to those targets anyway. And, seeing your later add on, make the torps too slow at range, they are useless against anyone that is isn't brain dead sailing in a straight line for assuming there is no weirdness in scaling of travel times, about 30 seconds per 5 km at 50-55 knots (aircraft that travel 3 times as fast cover similar areas in about 10 seconds, give or take, but I'm rounding for the sake of simplicity). As it is, short range torps are pretty much written off, even with lower spotted ranges and even if they have good speed, because it's near suicide to use them, and you really have to telegraph the launch as is. the "multi-role" you propose we already have and works on anything not flying an IJN flag namely at tier 8 and 9, but add an extra level of frustration that of a 8 round torp salvo fired at a smoke screen of a DD firing at you unspotted but moving a bit, cause a radar ship has you lit from behind a rock that even IF you score a hit it's one of TWO torps of the 8 that will actually hit it. Which will just tick off DD users in general, save maybe the ones with really good anti-DD guns and builds already. And long range torps that my well only be useful against a zombie at the keyboard or AFK's in cruisers and BB's? Is the point of your suggestion to pretty much make torps pointless and destabilize things because that's about all that would come of it. 

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Shallow water torps that only damage other DDs.

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Is the point of your suggestion to pretty much make torps pointless and destabilize things because that's about all that would come of it. 

 

Pretty much.  Torpedos are too effective atm.  2 or 3 torps can kill a BB.  That's horsepuckey.  I've read and seen studies that show on average it would take ~16 torpedoes to completely delete a battleship.  Obviously this isn't true for all battleships or lucky shots.  But on average.

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43 minutes ago, legoboy0401 said:

 

You know what would be fun? Increasing torpedo ranges for all DDs(no Russians though) at Tier IV by 3 km and at Tier V by 4 km. This would indirectly nerf radar(the latter buff only), buff DD torps(not Soviet ones though, I wouldn't), and make DDs more fun to play. Minekaze would have an 11 km range, and Mutsuki a 12 km range. Honestly, with the state of Mutsuki, the latter buff is one that should be seriously considered. Who are WG kidding forcing a ship with only two guns to have a max range of influence on the battle of only 8 km?? Mutsuki should be able to stay out of Radar range and launch torps, because she's one of the worst DDs in the game(Trash-22 excepting, the thing needs to be removed and replaced)Honestly, all ships by tier V that were made had reasonable, non-YOLO torp ranges. At least let the DDs all(but Russian, A, because bias towards everybody else but Russians needs to be the WG thing instead of the opposite, and B, because Russian DDs have too good guns to begin with) have stealth-torping by Tier V. 

 

I was only half-joking in that last paragraph, and the Mutsuki bit and T-22 bit I meant 100%. Mutsuki needs more torpedo range. 10 km wasn't even enough to make her good at Tier VI(where Mutsuki now gets up-tiered into a lot) and whoever approved of nerfing Mutsuki in the process of fitting her into Tier V was an idiot. If 4 guns and 10 km torps couldn't save her once, HOW THE HECK DO THEY EXPECT HER TO DO ANYTHING EVEN OKAY NOW!?

 

T-22, on the other hand, is balanced around a 14-point captain with CE and IFHE at Tier VYes really. A 14-point captain at Tier V to make her at best average.

No, this wasn't a smart move on WG's part. Akizuki's case is at least understandable, being a Tier VIII. But T-22? Heck no. WG should give her German 1/4 HE pen, quite honestly, give her a bit more range on the torps, and make them reload a tiny bit faster, at least. But you know they won't, for, I don't know, REASONS.TM

 

Minekaze used to have 10km torps at T5, and everyone cried that it was way too OP so Wargaming removed them.

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9 minutes ago, Deno said:

Minekaze used to have 10km torps at T5, and everyone cried that it was way too OP so Wargaming removed them.

Trust me, it wouldn't make Mutsuki OP to have 12 km torpedoes at tier V, not by a country mile. What it would take to make Mutsuki OP is for her to actually be a strong ship, which she isn't and will never be.

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my Atlanta only has offensive torpedoes ……. wish they did more damage 

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3 hours ago, Blackgunner said:

Torpedos are too effective atm.  2 or 3 torps can kill a BB.  That's horsepuckey. 

You obviously haven't tried to torp a Yamato lately.

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6 hours ago, Blackgunner said:

I feel like we can split Torpedoes up even more.  We have deepwater torpedoes which is a good separation; but what we really need is offensive/defensive torpedo specializations.

 

Defensive Torpedoes: Fast, short ranged, removed arming distance safeties, very high spotting range

Multi-Role Torpedoes: Variety of speeds, ranges, Regular arming distance, Midwater (25% chance of detonation against a destroyer) normal spotting range

Offensive Torpedoes: Very Long Range, 200-300% arming range requirement, Deepwater, low spotting range.

 

 

You forgot heat-seeking, laser-guided, AI-equipped, autonomous-drive torpedoes that can change course at any time

I want my torpedoes to follow their targets around islands and down to the bottom of the ocean if need be :)

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Not sure torpedos are even much of a discussion with US dd's. When I play Nicholas it seems to evolve to run and gun tactics for entire games and if I'm not firing I'm not getting consistent damage. At a range of 8 or 9 km guns are accurate enough and Nicholas is manouverable enough to evade fire

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On 7/21/2018 at 1:08 AM, The_first_harbinger said:

Oh boy, Clemson with 8.5 km

and we thought the Clemson was a seal clubber before, if it had that it would have a 1.5km stealth torp window without the capt. skill, and its already got its gun upgrade that gives it duals

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