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JCC45

For those who say "MM only looks at ships and tiers...

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Have a look at 2:45 of this...

"analyzes the players and ships  ..." 

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Don't have time to watch it right now.  What's the gist?

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But...he isn't talking about matchmaking at all.  He is talking about the game looking at who is in the game, and granting a mission that is appropriate for them.  IE it wouldn't make much sense to give a plane killing mission to a player in a game without a CV (I didn't read all the missions, just an example).

For those who can't watch, he is basically talking about when the match starts, the system looks at the players and ships in the game, and grants an appropriate battle mission based on that information.

 

Edited by Old_Baldy_One
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18 minutes ago, Old_Baldy_One said:

But...he isn't talking about matchmaking at all.  He is talking about the game looking at who is in the game, and granting a mission that is appropriate for them.  IE it wouldn't make much sense to give a plane killing mission to a player in a game without a CV (I didn't read all the missions, just an example).

For those who can't watch, he is basically talking about when the match starts, the system looks at the players and ships in the game, and grants an appropriate battle mission based on that information.

 

 

Yeaaaaaaaaaah.  Cuz the MM isn't part of the game.

Your avatar is very appropriate for your comment.

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33 minutes ago, JCC45 said:

Have a look at 2:45 of this...

"analyzes the players and ships  ..." 

Is that for random games or just your special missions ? 

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17 minutes ago, Old_Baldy_One said:

But...he isn't talking about matchmaking at all.  He is talking about the game looking at who is in the game, and granting a mission that is appropriate for them.  IE it wouldn't make much sense to give a plane killing mission to a player in a game without a CV (I didn't read all the missions, just an example).

For those who can't watch, he is basically talking about when the match starts, the system looks at the players and ships in the game, and grants an appropriate battle mission based on that information.

 

^^ This, unfortunately though I think the OP was jumping the Shark a bit and a little overzealous, hoping that there was some proverbial "Wizard of Oz" pulling the strings of a rigged match maker this whole time. Man people would flip their lids if indeed that we're true.

Heck, people think that there is preferential Match Making for premium ships and premium accounts. Meanwhile, I personally hear that, a person who has only had a couple of months without premium since OBT, has a ton of premium ships and am in the same out Tiered match as they are... lol 

That never quite clicks with them though and they never see that blatantly obvious point. They either throw out a World of Tanks reference or insist they are right, just because... 

I know, it's easier to think, believe, feel that the system is intentionally "keeping all of us down unless we pay to get ahead". But burden of proof is needed for a "fact" to be labeled as such. Anything less is speculation, opinion and is not factual.

 

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Seems like they do that just to pick a mission u are suited too not ever single random match . I could be wrong but that's how I understood it .

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3 minutes ago, BURN_Miner said:

^^ This, unfortunately though I think the OP was jumping the Shark a bit and a little overzealous, hoping that there was some proverbial "Wizard of Oz" pulling the strings of a rigged match maker this whole time. Man people would flip their lids if indeed that we're true.

Heck, people think that there is preferential Match Making for premium ships and premium accounts. Meanwhile, I personally hear that, a person who has only had a couple of months without premium since OBT, has a ton of premium ships and am in the same out Tiered match as they are... lol 

That never quite clicks with them though and they never see that blatantly obvious point. They either throw out a World of Tanks reference or insist they are right, just because... 

I know, it's easier to think, believe, feel that the system is intentionally "keeping all of us down unless we pay to get ahead". But burden of proof is needed for a "fact" to be labeled as such. Anything less is speculation, opinion and is not factual.

 

Actually didn't anyone ever tell you yet that all truth is relative now, so it is absolutely impossible for their to be absolute truth.  There for if OP believes MM is rigged then to him it's true and he doesnt need fancy things like proof or facts or logic to back up the opinion he gave. 

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It says that a mission is picked based on your ship, if it is the same as the previous video (haven't watched it yet - at work now).  How is that different from MM?  Every time this comes up, the questions about which stats would be used, how to read ship configuration before loading without being invasive, etc, never get answered.

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3 minutes ago, BURN_Miner said:

^^ This, unfortunately though I think the OP was jumping the Shark a bit and a little overzealous, hoping that there was some proverbial "Wizard of Oz" pulling the strings of a rigged match maker this whole time. Man people would flip their lids if indeed that we're true.

Heck, people think that there is preferential Match Making for premium ships and premium accounts. Meanwhile, I personally hear that, a person who has only had a couple of months without premium since OBT, has a ton of premium ships and am in the same out Tiered match as they are... lol 

That never quite clicks with them though and they never see that blatantly obvious point. They either throw out a World of Tanks reference or insist they are right, just because... 

I know, it's easier to think, believe, feel that the system is intentionally "keeping all of us down unless we pay to get ahead". But burden of proof is needed for a "fact" to be labeled as such. Anything less is speculation, opinion and is not factual.

 

ROFLMAO IF premium ships got preferential matchmaking My Bismarck wouldn't have a almost 20% higher win rate with the same number of battles as my Tirpitz. If Premium accounts and people who spent a lot of money on this game got preferential matchmaking I would have a 100% win rate lol. 

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4 minutes ago, Belthorian said:

ROFLMAO IF premium ships got preferential matchmaking My Bismarck wouldn't have a almost 20% higher win rate with the same number of battles as my Tirpitz. If Premium accounts and people who spent a lot of money on this game got preferential matchmaking I would have a 100% win rate lol. 

TELL ME ABOUT IT!!! 

Caps intended. lol What's hilarious is that when I hear people say that and I tell them "What about me? I have over 20 premiums that I've paid for and am on a premium account, but am in the same match as you." They get mad, defensive or like I said, throw out WoT comparisons (because after 3 years we know these two games are STILL exactly the same and nothing more than reskins, /eyeroll) or just insist that they are right and Im wrong or lying..

Follow the Yellow Brick Road I guess. lol

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54 minutes ago, BURN_Miner said:

I know, it's easier to think, believe, feel that the system is intentionally "keeping all of us down unless we pay to get ahead". 

 

because the fact "you are bad at this game" is just so hard to accept

people will instead come up with all kinds of reasons they can possibly think of to blame their bad performance on anything but themselves

 

i even ran into this guy that said "whats the point of aimbot, aiming in this game is so easy, it's just dispersion that limits your hit rate"

then i look at his stats......ever so slightly above average for some, below server average for most

sure it's all dispersion not him(roll eyes)

Edited by jason199506

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1 hour ago, JCC45 said:

 

Yeaaaaaaaaaah.  Cuz the MM isn't part of the game.

Your avatar is very appropriate for your comment.

Keep trying to fit what he said into your argument.  The 2 things have absolutely nothing to do with each other, but please, don't let that stop you.

MM is part of the game, but it has NOTHING to do with what he is talking about.  You are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

Is it possible matchmaking is more than ship types and tiers?  Sure.  Hopefully someday they tell us the specifics, but I doubt it.  This doesn't relate to that discussion at all, cause he wasn't talking about matchmaking.

Edited by Old_Baldy_One
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48 minutes ago, ExploratorOne said:

It says that a mission is picked based on your ship, if it is the same as the previous video (haven't watched it yet - at work now).  How is that different from MM?  Every time this comes up, the questions about which stats would be used, how to read ship configuration before loading without being invasive, etc, never get answered.

How is picking a mission based on your ship for that specific match (which is type and tier, aka mirrored as implemented a bit ago) different than picking 7 - 12 opposing enemy players different prior to the match starting? 

I think posing the question that way should clarify it a bit better for you.

Considering that the OP is posting a Dev Diary for 0.7.7 and changes that have yet to be implemented, there is no specificity on when the missions are chosen. I don't know how strong your computer is, but mine is pretty decent and with that I know that there is a lag point of 20 seconds that no one can load in, but all of the ships have been chosen.

So to answer your question, we don't know "yet" because 0.7.7 hasn't been launched, but if I had to guess at what the differences between the two would be, timing... MM is chosen before the missions are given out, it obviously would have to work that way and no, it is not as instant as people are going to say it is.

Maybe when the late loaders finally get into the game and the system reads where they are at (full handshake), however fulfilling the MM que only requires the specified restrictions - mirrored to the degree they set, Tier limits, etc.

 

Did that better explain it?

Edited by BURN_Miner
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1 hour ago, BURN_Miner said:

^^ This, unfortunately though I think the OP was jumping the Shark a bit and a little overzealous, hoping that there was some proverbial "Wizard of Oz" pulling the strings of a rigged match maker this whole time. Man people would flip their lids if indeed that we're true.

Heck, people think that there is preferential Match Making for premium ships and premium accounts. Meanwhile, I personally hear that, a person who has only had a couple of months without premium since OBT, has a ton of premium ships and am in the same out Tiered match as they are... lol 

That never quite clicks with them though and they never see that blatantly obvious point. They either throw out a World of Tanks reference or insist they are right, just because... 

I know, it's easier to think, believe, feel that the system is intentionally "keeping all of us down unless we pay to get ahead". But burden of proof is needed for a "fact" to be labeled as such. Anything less is speculation, opinion and is not factual.

 

But there is preferential MM for premiums..just read the WG patent "Premium vehicles typically have advanced capabilities compared to other vehicles of similar tiers, and may be allowed only into a lower range of battle levels than standard vehicles of a similar tier level, thereby encouraging users to obtain premium vehicles" and...."as a result, players are more likely to feel superior, and have a better chance of success in game using premium vehicles because they will never play against as difficult opponents as standard vehicles may face." It's all there in print for anyone to see, of course the WG apologists say naively "they don't use the patent"..LOL!

Edited by KalishniKat
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I would prefer play 5v5 or wait little bit longer for match...

Instead of always be moved up into higher match.

Very sad when i go on one of my t7 and see alot t9 ...or t8 to 10

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3 minutes ago, KalishniKat said:

But there is preferential MM for premiums..just read the WG patent "Premium vehicles typically have advanced capabilities compared to other vehicles of similar tiers, and may be allowed only into a lower range of battle levels than standard vehicles of a similar tier level, thereby encouraging users to obtain premium vehicles"

3. Premium ships get more than just better gimmicks:

  Quote

Premium vehicles typically have advanced capabilities compared to other vehicles of similar tiers, and may be allowed only into a lower range of battle levels than standard vehicles of a similar tier level, thereby encouraging users to obtain premium vehicles. For example, in one embodiment, Tier 8 standard Heavy vehicles are allowed in battle levels from 9 to 12, while Tier 8 Heavy premium vehicles get into levels 9-10 and 9-11, thereby avoiding battle level 12. As a result, players are more likely to feel superior, and have a better chance of success in game using premium vehicles because they will never play against as difficult opponents as standard vehicles may face.


If still in effect, this easily explains the undeniable supremacy of premium ships in stats. They almost always get better winrates within their tiers.
On the other hand, if there was anyhing that would support the "Pay-To-Win" argument, it would be this one. It is already admitted that Premium ships "have advanced capabilities compared to other vehicles of similar tiers", they shouldn't also be getting easier matchmaking.

Edit: After some stats diving, this doesn't seem to be in effect in WoWs. The discrepancy between Premium and standard ship winrates is more consistently explained by the latter's significantly higher volume of registered battle counts. The more a ship is played, the more its winrate tends to drift to the mean. Which actually supports the 50% winrate argument, though not necessarily how they achieve it.

 

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/153293-wargaming-matchmaking-mechanics-and-how-they-affect-your-game/

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1 minute ago, KalishniKat said:

But there is preferential MM for premiums..just read the WG patent "Premium vehicles typically have advanced capabilities compared to other vehicles of similar tiers, and may be allowed only into a lower range of battle levels than standard vehicles of a similar tier level, thereby encouraging users to obtain premium vehicles"

Source link please? And please refer to the definition of the word "typically". "Typically" and the words "always", "will", "must", and and combination there of do not equal each other.

I'm asking for the source link because I have a feeling it is going to be a www.worldoftanks link. But, I could be wrong, I'm just curious.

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1 hour ago, JCC45 said:

 

Yeaaaaaaaaaah.  Cuz the MM isn't part of the game.

Your avatar is very appropriate for your comment.

You know when I watched that first ep of Star Trek NG with Picard, and my first thought was, here they are in the what the 25th century and still no cure for baldness.

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SourcOh, and for those of you who notice a losing streak following your win streak, it's becuase WG says you need to be challenged

According to another aspect, the matchmaking server may store a win/loss percentage for each user (or vehicle) at a given battle level. As the player's win/loss ratio decreases, the player becomes more likely to be placed in battles having battle levels at the lower end of the allowable range, whereas as the player's win/loss ration increases, the player becomes more likely to be placed in battles having battle levels at the upper end of the allowable range. Thus, when a player has been repeatedly put into too many difficult battles, the balancing is done in favor of easier battle sessions, thereby encouraging the player by providing an easier game environment. Similarly, when the player has been repeatedly put into too many easy battles, the balancing is done in favor of harder battle sessions, thereby keeping the player challenged instead of letting the player become bored with easy games.

Source: https://patents.google.com/patent/US8425330B1/en

I await the WG apoligist now who claim that WG doesnt use this published patent or that WOTS and WOWs are so differnt that WG uses a totally differnt system in WOWS. Very naive to assume this.

Edited by KalishniKat
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1 minute ago, ol_Cajun said:

You know when I watched that first ep of Star Trek NG with Picard, and my first thought was, here they are in the what the 25th century and still no cure for baldness.

They seemingly cured obesity though, as you don't see any overweight people on board :)  I prefer to think Picard just chose to stay bald.

In regards to above, are those pulled from WoT by chance (regarding the premium MM)?  I think WoWs did that for a bit, but went away from it.  Now their premium ships are more gimicky instead of OP.  WoTs it may be different.

I wouldnt mind only seeing tier 6-7 in my Tirpitz, thats for sure ;)

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10 minutes ago, KalishniKat said:

As the player's win/loss ratio decreases, the player becomes more likely to be placed in battles having battle levels at the lower end of the allowable range, whereas as the player's win/loss ration increases, the player becomes more likely to be placed in battles having battle levels at the upper end of the allowable range. Thus, when a player has been repeatedly put into too many difficult battles, the balancing is done in favor of easier battle sessions, thereby encouraging the player by providing an easier game environment. Similarly, when the player has been repeatedly put into too many easy battles, the balancing is done in favor of harder battle sessions, thereby keeping the player challenged instead of letting the player become bored with easy games.

im 99% sure this is referring to tiering(ie. you being top tier or bottom tier), and has absolutely nothing to do with how bad your teammates get

Edited by jason199506

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7 minutes ago, KalishniKat said:

SourcOh, and for those of you who notice a losing streak following your win streak, it's becuase WG says you need to be challenged

According to another aspect, the matchmaking server may store a win/loss percentage for each user (or vehicle) at a given battle level. As the player's win/loss ratio decreases, the player becomes more likely to be placed in battles having battle levels at the lower end of the allowable range, whereas as the player's win/loss ration increases, the player becomes more likely to be placed in battles having battle levels at the upper end of the allowable range. Thus, when a player has been repeatedly put into too many difficult battles, the balancing is done in favor of easier battle sessions, thereby encouraging the player by providing an easier game environment. Similarly, when the player has been repeatedly put into too many easy battles, the balancing is done in favor of harder battle sessions, thereby keeping the player challenged instead of letting the player become bored with easy games.

Source: https://patents.google.com/patent/US8425330B1/en

I await the WG apoligist now who claim that WG doesnt use this published patent or that WOTS and WOWs are so differnt that WG uses a totally differnt system in WOWS. Very naive to assume this.

Not going to comment whether this is in or not, or the differences between WOT and WOW.  But, would this really a bad thing?  Players who just want to ROFLSTOMP the game and other people, I suppose it would be seen as bad.  Players who want proper competition would see this as awesome.

Blizzard/Activision has something similar patented:  https://archive.is/N8wdV#selection-1175.0-1181.46

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17 minutes ago, KalishniKat said:

I think you should have read further...

I had a feeling that this was going to be not only related to WoT, but most likely outdated. Take notice that is says nothing of ships.

Thank you for the source link though.

EDIT: And yes, I read quite a bit of the MM part of the patent. It is specifically for World of Tanks, was designed for World of Tanks (look at how vehicles must weigh similar to each other), etc.

 

2nd Edit: Very nice of you to edit your post and dismiss any reply that is actually factual. I'm not being rude, but read the darn thing, DON'T "assume" that one system automatically applies to another (note if that were the case, does WoWP have the exact same MM as WoT? idk). But you seriously dismissed anyone and any response that disagreed with you after I pointed out in bold and underlined where you failed to read.

Sorry man, I try not to assume anything, let alone call an assumption a fact.

2. The computer readable media of claim 1, wherein the plurality of different vehicle types comprise light tank, medium tank, heavy tank, self-propelled artillery, and tank destroyer.
3. The computer readable media of claim 1, wherein the plurality of different vehicle tiers comprise at least 10 tiers representing increasing vehicle capabilities.
 
 
Edited by BURN_Miner

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44 minutes ago, BURN_Miner said:

TELL ME ABOUT IT!!! 

Caps intended. lol What's hilarious is that when I hear people say that and I tell them "What about me? I have over 20 premiums that I've paid for and am on a premium account, but am in the same match as you." They get mad, defensive or like I said, throw out WoT comparisons (because after 3 years we know these two games are STILL exactly the same and nothing more than reskins, /eyeroll) or just insist that they are right and Im wrong or lying..

Follow the Yellow Brick Road I guess. lol

lol at last count I have 44 premiums and that is only a drop in the bucket compared to the amount of doubloons I have purchased. If there was preferential matchmaking I wouldn't have all these sub 800 WTR players on my team.

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