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Do you think that IJN DDs are in a good place?

good place?   

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Hardly depends on where we look, because while some of them are good, some are not.

To Elaborate a bit, I rate the following as poor ships:
- Mutsuki
- Hatsuharu
- Kagerou

The following I consider as servicable, not great, not bad:
- Wakatake
- Minekaze
- Akatsuki
- Shiratsuyu
- Yuugumo

And those I consider to be good:
- Umikaze
- Isokaze
- Fubuki
- Akizuki
- Shimakaze

Of course, I am a bit biased so People can and will disagree on what is above

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No, and about to get worse. It appears the new brit DD's will have equal camo ratings with excellent fast firing, short range guns. Pretty much the nemesis of IJN torp boats.

Then, at the top end, you have the Gearing special mod that further impinges on the IJN concealment advantage.

The Akizuki line is in a decent position overall, but the line ending in Shimakaze not so much. Part of the problem feels like the torps are detected too far out, giving battleships and cruisers a relatively easier time dodging them.

Edited by _Rumple_
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Over the years I played I was taught that they were torpedo boats. 

They still are, only gun ship destroyers have better torpedoes now imo; PA, US and the fast reloading KM.

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1 minute ago, _Rumple_ said:

 Part of the problem feels like the torps are detected too far out, giving battleships and cruisers a relatively easier time dodging them.

This.

You cant reduce the detection range because it'll become a damage farm for the DDs. But having it high means they cant hit them.

Shimakaze and her lower tiered friends are a nightmare to balance because of this.

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Nope.They need lots of adjustments, like torpedo detection, mostly for mid to high tier ships.

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They are at the best place, stuck in my port for quite a long while (except Akizuki).:Smile_teethhappy:

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2 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

They are at the best place, stuck in my port for quite a long while (except Akizuki).:Smile_teethhappy:

Akizuki is one of the few ships that I consider perfectly fine at high tier. She's a blast

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One answer, No

Two word Answer, Heck no

long answer, mainly BB drivers are guilty of complaining about the Concealment and short torp reload meta  of IJN DDs, they're in short the most discriminated DD by nation. This action has some side affects, as of right now, BBs are the laziest class ships in the game work load wise compared to other classes. They only have to worry about HE spam every sec and not torps in the Upper tiers of the game. Until the short torp reload/concealment meta disappears. IJN DDs will be the 2nd nation in the odd spot in the standing behind the Gimmick and less used PA-DDs. I like diversity with guidelines in the different metas in the game, right now IJN DD in the lower and mid tiers are great, upper tiers meh.Because of the consent complaining/whining IJN DDs got the nerf bat hard. The only ones that got it worse, CVs

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39 minutes ago, AyanoMidori said:

Akizuki is one of the few ships that I consider perfectly fine at high tier. She's a blast

Indeed.

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They are still quite workable and fun to play even with the increased prevalence of radar. They have become more challenging to play well and I like that aspect because there are new tactics to develop and implement to overcome the new challenges.

However if the new British line of gun boat destroyers are implemented with their current concealment ratings (some I believe with better concealment than their tier IJN counterparts) they will simply become irrelevant. There is no counter play to being perma spotted for a boat that relies on stealth tactics to be effective. 

 

 

 

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Unfortunately I have to say No.

It was always my favorite line, and my most played one. Unfortunately with all the radar around, and the torpedo detection values, they are tough to play now.

I still love Yugumo and Shima and have most of them (except the few garbage ones I do not like and sold long ago:  Mutsuki/Hatsuharu/Kagero).

Akizuki is fine,  and still play Fujin on occasion (still a very good ship), but the higher tier ones do need help. 

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Personally, I think they should do a global 2km torpedo range buff. If concealment is being outclassed, they should still be able to use the torpedoes. 

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WG should phase out the Japanese Destroyer line since they are becoming increasingly Obsolete especially when the new British Destroyer line come's into this game       

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Its all about how you play them

 

On the main Line...

Fubuki is amazing

The T7 i have not played in a long time.

Kagero is a solid ship.

Yugumo is a solid ship.

Shima is amazing.

 

 

The IJN DD line is in a good place.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Camo68 said:

However if the new British line of gun boat destroyers are implemented with their current concealment ratings (some I believe with better concealment than their tier IJN counterparts) they will simply become irrelevant.

Very close, but slightly worse. Still a problem for the IJN.

Daring's at 5.7 to Shimakaze's 5.6, Jutland and Lightning are 5.5 to 5.4 on Kagero, 5.5 on Yugumo. Jervis at 6.3 is better than Akatsuki's 6.4, but worse than Shiratsuyu's 5.8. Icarus at 6.1's pretty equivalent to Fubuki. 0.1km's not much to do much with, if it's any consolation to say Shimakaze she's 7kt faster than Daring

They're not necessarily better gunboats than the Americans either, Lightning may have better stealth than Benson but she has 122k DPM to Benson's 164k. Still I would currently assess the RN Destroyer line design goal as 'grief IJN DD's then be utterly useless in the high-radar meta' or as WG term it 'defensive'.

 

Overall it's hard to condemn the IJN destroyer line as bad, there are a mix of good and bad ships just with every line. The British have the Emerald, the Germans the T-22, the Pan-Asians the Hsienyang, the Americans the Mahan etc.

 

The IJN DD's have a full line and a split which is about to be completed to T10, I'd say they're at least in a better place than French or Italian destroyers...

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No.  I don't think that they're in a good place.

What follows is what I wrote in a recent thread on this very same subject.

 

Quote

I'm really beginning to dislike the IJN DD lines, despite the fact that the Shimmy was my first tier 10.  The IJN torp boats are supposed to be the premier torpedo DDs in the game, and they're far from that.  And the IJN gunboats, i.e. the Akizuki and the upcoming tier 9 and 10 gunboats look extremely lame to me. 

 

The Gunboats:  IMO, having really nice guns with a high RoF is not enough to balance off the absolutely  TERRIBLE low speed and maneuverability.  I found that the Akizuki is fine in ranked play where it's only tier 8's and having fewer ships on the map created a lot more open space in which the Aki could do extremely, extremely well.  But in randoms, life's a LOT harder for a slow whale of a DD when her guns don't have all that great a range in the first place.  The Akizuki and her higher tier cousins really need some significant buffs, IMO, to make them respectably competitive with their similar tier competitors, particularly in random battles.  More speed and/or better agility would be a start.    Giving the 100mm guns built-in IFHE would be a major improvement, since it would ease the skill crunch on those captains.

 

The Torp Boats:  This is going to be a controversial suggestion, but here goes.  I think that IJN torpedoes need a massive rework.  Historically, their torps were known for being stealthy, but I'm not so sure that they were known for being much more powerful than other nations' torpedoes.  (BTW, anyone please correct me if I'm wrong on this.) 

 

What I suggest is as follows.

Either make IJN torpedoes into PA DD-like DWTs that can't hit DDs, or just make their torps particularly difficult to detect (just not DWT levels of difficult).  And at the same time, reduce their damage to average levels.  Perhaps allow their torpedoes to have a bit more range than they do now (except for the 20 km torp, which I'd suggest removing entirely).  Maybe about 20% more range.

And a possible flip side is that perhaps USN torpedoes should become harder hitting (due to their use of torpex, rather than more conventional explosive of that era), with the expected nerfs to other stats.  The argument in favor of this would be that USN DDs are better gunboats than IJN DDs, and so they should be able to function with higher risk/reward torpedoes, whereas IJN torpedo DDs, not being gunboats, really need more reliable torpedoes that should hit more often (and probably reload more quickly) due to lower detection ranges.

Anyways, this is just an idea.  Not that I ever expect it to see the light of day.

 

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4 minutes ago, Crucis said:

No.  I don't think that they're in a good place.

What follows is what I wrote in a recent thread on this very same subject.

 

 

I would never want Deepwater Torps on my IJN DD's.... especially the shima..

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8 minutes ago, Spyde said:

I would never want Deepwater Torps on my IJN DD's.... especially the shima..

Agreed. It gives up far too much. Especially when they will still be spotted by hydro and such. 

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17 minutes ago, Spyde said:

I would never want Deepwater Torps on my IJN DD's.... especially the shima..

That's all you took from my post?  Pathetic.  I only suggested DWTs as one possible idea.  I also suggested simply having greatly reduced detection on normal torpedoes, like the way that current USN torps are.

Jeez.

 

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6 minutes ago, Crucis said:

That's all you took from my post?  Pathetic.  I only suggested DWTs as one possible idea.  I also suggested simply having greatly reduced detection on normal torpedoes, like the way that current USN torps are.

Jeez.

 

I dont play the gunboat IJN DD line much, so only commenting from the "Torp Boat" Shima line.

The Torps do not need any changes at all.  They are perfectly fine how they are.

The "Torp Boats" Guns are actually very strong.. If you know how to use them...

 

 

As fun as the "pathetic" and "Jeez" comments are.  Its not really needed.   No changes are currently needed for the Shima/Yugumo/Kagero/Fubuki. (Have not played the T7 in a long time to comment on it)

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5 hours ago, SireneRacker said:

Hardly depends on where we look, because while some of them are good, some are not.

To Elaborate a bit, I rate the following as poor ships:
- Mutsuki
- Hatsuharu
- Kagerou

The following I consider as servicable, not great, not bad:
- Wakatake
- Minekaze
- Akatsuki
- Shiratsuyu
- Yuugumo

And those I consider to be good:
- Umikaze
- Isokaze
- Fubuki
- Akizuki
- Shimakaze

Of course, I am a bit biased so People can and will disagree on what is above

Your assessment is fair, though I would rank Akatsuki and Kag as good and fubuki as ok.

The IJN line in general takes extra effort to make them work, definitely not easy mode but still my go to DDs.

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10 minutes ago, Spyde said:

 

The "Torp Boats" Guns are actually very strong.. If you know how to use them...

I use my IJN DD guns - maybe overuse them.

Unless this has changed in the past week, WG is at least supertesting improvements to turret traverse on several of the mid-tier Soviet DDs, which if implemented will improve that aspect of their play from horribad to merely not great.  I don't know if this change is good or necessary, since the bad traverse does teach certain lessons about playing the ships.  But if it does go through, it seems to me that the same rationale of "player comfort" might be invoked to look again at the bad traverse on IJN DDs (main line, at least) and give them a bit more value from their guns.

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No.  Not no but heck no !

Good grief WG.  You might as well just close out the IJN DD line and all IJN ships.  The entire point of this game is that nations had completely different design concepts and that made their effectiveness "unique."  Once you take away that fundamental benefit of that unique approach, the entire premise of the game falls apart !!!   Meta is toxic even though it is fantastic for sales.

Radar has taken away the DD's ability to close, to take a chance:  not just to shoot but to spot and screen....their original roles.  Of course, we're headed to a "no roles" FPS aren't we..... 

NO.  I've retired my IJN 9 and 10 DD's and CA's.  They are NVA anymore.  Tier 7 and 8's are close to being retired as well even though they can make money and lose...nothing but radar and meta non-era OP ships.   My tier 5 and 6's have been running into nothing but Radar ships.  Four in a tier 5 match last night and the entire match was out of tier 5 and 6 ships in the first 5 minutes.....it ended up a tier 7 match only   It's gotten to the point that the entire game is just becoming a traditional arcade FPS:  with ships instead of monsters, robots or tanks....  I was hoping for a little history and simplicity of LOS combat....  NO.

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