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Gneisenau013

Threat Assessment Thursday - Two Brothers

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Image result for world war 2 cic

*pictured - Combat Information Center on board USS Independence during operations off Okinawa, March 31, 1945*

When battling on the map "Two Brothers", how do you rate the threat of the enemy coming down the middle channel?

Everyone has seen replays or live streams of attempts to break through the middle channel on Two Brothers to launch a devastating surprise attack on the enemy team.

Despite the geography and terrain of the map, there are numerous successful raids performing this tactic.

However, every successful attempt was due to the element of surprise and catching the other team completely off-guard.

Two Brothers down the middle: trick gadget tactic or genuine threat to your fleet?

"People who don't gamble aren't worth talking to." - Isoroku Yamamoto, Imperial Japanese Navy

#threatassessmentthursday

#anchorsaweigh

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Early on exactly zero. It is later in the match when no one is near that cap that it becomes a danger.

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Its the late stages of the game that is an issue, especially in standard battle. East and West flanks gets so spread out that there isn't anyone left to defend the base. 

Also, can we get a epicenter mode for this map?

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Any team worth their weight in salt can defend against this, the channel is too narrow, once committed all you can do is push through. A decent DD commander can wreck havoc on everything coming through it, not to mention cruisers and battleships.

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I believe if the entire team does a full push, absorb the damage, no turns, straight forward push down middle, middle is possible. Unfortunately the moment first ship gets shot at, he will turn into the island and block the passage for the next ship and it becomes a chain reaction. Preferably for this map, I rather have the team push both sides while one ship could watch middle. If the CV is good, the CV will check and scout the sides and the middle so that we know what needs to be defended and who can push the fastest.

Otherwise if a ship is gonna push through middle, it has to be either a Destroyer or a Cruiser and they need to wait til 15:00. If a Battleship waits, that is one less important ship defending or pushing on the sides and the likelihood to lose would increase greatly.

Edited by Vangm94
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36 minutes ago, Gneisenau013 said:

Image result for world war 2 cic

*pictured - Combat Information Center on board USS Independence during operations off Okinawa, March 31, 1945*

When battling on the map "Two Brothers", how do you rate the threat of the enemy coming down the middle channel?

Everyone has seen replays or live streams of attempts to break through the middle channel on Two Brothers to launch a devastating surprise attack on the enemy team.

Despite the geography and terrain of the map, there are numerous successful raids performing this tactic.

However, every successful attempt was due to the element of surprise and catching the other team completely off-guard.

Two Brothers down the middle: trick gadget tactic or genuine threat to your fleet?

"People who don't gamble aren't worth talking to." - Isoroku Yamamoto, Imperial Japanese Navy

#threatassessmentthursday

#anchorsaweigh

1015450271.png

players who attempt to demand that I spot for them.  lol they are the true threat.

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I have found that parking an American radar cruiser in the middle and just occasionally peeking out and shooting can be extremely effective, especially if CVs are in play.

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  To paraphrase what everyone else is saying: " It depends"

  On what the other team does.

  Leave the middle unguarded?  Send a force up the middle to take their cap, and flank whatever side is giving you the most trouble.

  Paying attention, and leaving a rear guard?  Then it's a high risk, not so great reward tactic.

 Do they have a competent CV, setup for strike?   NO!  Don't do it.   You'll just be feeding him your ship.

 

  In Co-op, this tactic has a whole different affect on the match.

  DD trying to run the gap early?   You'll meet the entire bot team, charging in for your blood.  (meanwhile the rest of your team is sunning themselves out on deck- because you pulled the entire bot team in behind the islands, and now nobody has anything to shoot at)

  I often see DD's sit right by the mouth of the strait, and wait.   The bot team does just as above^.    One of two things will happen:   "The Great 2 Brothers Turkey Shoot"  As the charging bots all run into waves of torpedoes and die- game over in >4 minutes (yawn)   OR,  your luck runs out, and they steamroll over you like a runaway train.   NOT fun for the DD player,  but often turns into a free for all for the rest, if they've seen it coming and returned to the cap.    Those who spawned out on the flanks, and/or committed to the East or West caps are SoL- by the time they get to where they can shoot, it's usually all over.

  Imo, this map has a high probability of turning into a game of "ring around the Rosie"  or "whack a mole", no matter what mode is chosen, lol.

  Lol- they should have called THIS one trap- it's far more apt!    Choose the wrong side with a slow BB or CA?  You're screwed.  Enjoy the low/no damage snoozer.

  Get sucked (suckered) into pushing too far on the East side?  Enjoy!  YOU are the fish, that ring of islands is the barrel.

  This is one of those maps that I like less and less the more I play it, lol.    ( The infamous "entire team stymied by a single DD sitting in open water in the middle of the cap" game  was on this map in the East cap.)   

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1 hour ago, Gneisenau013 said:

Despite the geography and terrain of the map, there are numerous successful raids performing this tactic.

There are more that are hopeless failures that only result in degrading the combat effectiveness of your team.

1 hour ago, Gneisenau013 said:

Two Brothers down the middle: trick gadget tactic or genuine threat to your fleet?

Effective tactic, but one that requires cooperation and timing and therefore difficult to pull off in randoms; and in clan battles your teams aren't large enough for the tactic to work, even if that map was included.

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The problem with going up the middle in 2 brothers is that if you stall at the mouth, then you are out gunned, because the defenders can get their rear guns in on the action. If you don't stall at the mouth, then you are broadside to a lot of people.

Going up the middle only works against teams you would never, ever, lose to.

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Going up the middle can be done 2 ways;

In mass where enough ships go to punch through

 

Or 1 or 2 ships go to distract the enemy looking enough to very around the flank

 

The latter I've seen work plenty because the team will focus more ships than needed just to sink 1 or 2 ships in the channel

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Two Brothers play has more real life metaphors than any map on any PvP game ever created.  There is a  kind of Darwinian connection between "play" and "life".  Sometimes the urge is too great.  The DNA too ingrained.  The dichotomy of peer pressure so perverse.  Rationalization fails.  Common sense flees.  Tunnel vision ensues.  And the irony?  Even though we might die (in the game sense), it was fun.  What?  Lost 11 karma points!!!!  Can't wait to do it again.

 

Caveat:  I don't go up the middle much these days, and I usually discourage it from others.  But I understand the call.  Understand the DNA.  And despite all that understanding, also realize there are tactical or strategic advantages for the execution...so I am always looking.  But that's the rationale approach.  And rational isn't the primary cover for the drive.  It's mostly irrational.  Stupid.  Counter-productive....and a helluva lot of fun.    

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The only time I ever went up the middle at the beginning of the game, I was in co-op mode. I'd just gone pink the game before, and the game tossed up two brothers as the map. So I decided to YOLO charge with the full intent of dying in the channel. By some stupid set of fortunate circumstances, I survived not only the charge but the rest of the battle.

On the other hand, I have dumped my full load of Anshan torps speculatively into the northern mouth of the channel, vaguely knowing there were enemy ships coming up it but not having a lock on any of them. I expected maybe one or two nuisance hits; I got a double strike.

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Anyone whos played it knows of the threat. I've seen many attempts by both teammates and enemies. Some successfull, some utter failures. Had a DD sneak through and start capturing our base while we were pushing the west flank. Luckily I was at the taik end of the push and was able to reverse course in my Cleveland and radar him and chase him back through the gap only for him to run into out group taking uis base. 

There's enough of a bend in the canter to use it as a sniping position...

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There's also the "Oh damn!" consideration. A limited move up the middle toward late game can panic the defense. All of a sudden everyone is moving back to protect the cap. That or no one is. Either presents opportunity. Key is timing, sprinting to the gap at the 20:00 minute mark is, well, "just a paddlin'" :)

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I NEVER venture into Deadman's Gulch/Torpedo Alley/Death Valley until very late in the battle when I'm sure that no Red is waiting in ambush on the other side.

1 hour ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

The only time I ever went up the middle at the beginning of the game, I was in co-op mode. I'd just gone pink the game before, and the game tossed up two brothers as the map. So I decided to YOLO charge with the full intent of dying in the channel. By some stupid set of fortunate circumstances, I survived not only the charge but the rest of the battle.

I made the error of going up Death Valley in Co-Op once, driving Perth, and ran into half of the bots coming from the other side. That cured me of doing that even in Co-Op.

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Sorry for stating some obvious old news here, but for those of you interested in Two Brothers slot charges done both correctly and incorrectly, The Mighty Jingles has some entertainment on this topic in case you've missed it before:

and

 

 

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There is always a DD that tries the "Defend the channel" tactic that turns into a "maybe I can sneak their cap" tactic. Depending on the North/South spawn and the cruiser I'm playing, I'll set up so I can spam HE over the  land and try to remain hidden. If there's a DD that hasn't been spotted a while or my spidey sense starts tingling, I'll throw up a plane and usually spot it coming down the middle to "catch us in the rear".

Edited by Capt_PepsiHolic

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I find that the counter charge works well: red DD and speedy BB (French/Scharnhorst/Gneisenau etc) come down the middle and catch us off guard. I charge back in a cruiser off east side, another cruiser comes back off the west side, we crossfire reds to death, and now both turn immediately up the middle. The 2 cruisers coming up the slot act almost like a fleet-in-being, drawing the reds back toward their cap while our team pincers them until they completely collapse. The more ships the reds send down the slot to die, the fewer greens needed to counter. This works really well.

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I have never once had a game on Two Brothers where someone went up the middle against my team and did anything meaningful.

However, I've had many times where a team did that and effectively suicided.

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I'm not sure there are enough words to describe how situational this tactic is. I'm not sure if I've ever fact checked a guy who is running the gauntlet for either team and found them to be a unicum player. Usually it's 35% shittiots. 

But what happens on the flanks as a result is tangible since everyone on the side opposing the center advance wants to be personally involved in handing this person's [edited]to them through their citadel. People will break contact to go back and distribute paddlins-a-plenty instead of exchanging fire with other well angled targets.

Sometimes the maneuver can distract enough to help the push going around the side succeed instead of a stalemate and even if a failure directly can have a positive outcome. 

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46 minutes ago, _ENO_ said:

I'm not sure there are enough words to describe how situational this tactic is. I'm not sure if I've ever fact checked a guy who is running the gauntlet for either team and found them to be a unicum player. Usually it's 35% shittiots. 

But what happens on the flanks as a result is tangible since everyone on the side opposing the center advance wants to be personally involved in handing this person's [edited]to them through their citadel. People will break contact to go back and distribute paddlins-a-plenty instead of exchanging fire with other well angled targets.

Sometimes the maneuver can distract enough to help the push going around the side succeed instead of a stalemate and even if a failure directly can have a positive outcome. 

There should be a picture of Two Brothers with an arrow pointing at the channel in the dictionary definition of situational.

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4 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

There should be a picture of Two Brothers with an arrow pointing at the channel in the dictionary definition of situational.

So true. 

I've pulled middle detail a couple of times but it was to try and win by capping as opposed to just letting the clock run out. Occasionally we were at a points deficit and people on the other team were spread out enough to make it a viable tactic. 

Being pink for 2 battles is worth it to just TK any idiot doing it in the first 10 minutes or so. I mean- you're seldom in a spot to do that when you see it happening but wow- it'd be worth it since you know they're dead anyway. 

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