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bubbleboy264

Struggling in Des Moines

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I keep losing in it and I die a lot. I don’t get it, I try and use islands as much as I can and I have high average damage, but my win rate sucks and it brings down my average xp per game. I don’t understand, do I just keep getting crap teams or am I playing it wrong. I’m good in it, but I keep losing. It’s so frustrating

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Considering, 100k DMG in the DE Moines is avg. I avg about 50k dmg in her, the main problem I think I can share with you in your frustration is. You're dependent on the map, PLUS you get focus fire by everyone. Its the tier X equivalent of the Atlanta. My De Moines set up is radar but I would like to change it to have more gun range. The problem for me is, gun range. Must of your DMG dealt is at the edge of your range almost like a tier 3 St Louis. You can;t get close to the battle with say BBs because they delete you faster then any class. Usually your team retreats and you're the last one to notice and your not fast enough to get away.  It all comes down to

  • Map awareness
  • Exiting before your team does if not, you become the tank and not the BBs
  • The de Moines is map dependent along with the dependency of a good fleet. It can't fight on its own when being focused fired upon

Trust me I need to work on these points too. Also I am too aggressive for the De Moines, I just stay away from the tier  X passive play experience. That I have to work on. This is from my POV where I need to improve. is it the same for you?

21 minutes ago, bubbleboy264 said:

I don’t understand, do I just keep getting crap teams or am I playing it wrong. I’m good in it, but I keep losing. It’s so frustrating

 

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The key to des moines is not only using terrain as cover, but using terrain that allows you to use firing angles on both sides of the map while still protecting you.  There is a fine line in the Des Moines and you have to skirt danger to make your radar useful.

I suggest divisioning up with players that can provide you with support.  I.e. DDs with smoke.  Its quid pro quo with them.

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I use the range mod btw, not reload. I have like 112k average damage in it but 42% win rate it’s so frustrating 

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1 minute ago, NoZoupForYou said:

The key to des moines is not only using terrain as cover, but using terrain that allows you to use firing angles on both sides of the map while still protecting you.  There is a fine line in the Des Moines and you have to skirt danger to make your radar useful.

I suggest divisioning up with players that can provide you with support.  I.e. DDs with smoke.  Its quid pro quo with them.

I don’t really have anyone I can division with, I almost always play solo. And I keep getting super open maps like Okinawa where it’s hard to find great island cover. I can make the ship work in the open but it’s definitely not as effective as it is behind islands. What’s annoying is I try to push up and radar to help my DDs but I just get focused by half the enemy team. I try to do my job and I get punished for it. And I keep losing despite over 110k average damage. I keeps getting crap teams, but I’m worried I’m doing something wrong as well. I love the ship it’s a ton of fun but why do I keep losing 

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My stats show that I don't play the Des Moines well either.  I did much better in clan wars than I did with it in randoms because of the team support.  

The Des Moines is a ship that requires a specific play style.  It is a very good ship if played correctly.  It is all about angles when taking fire or choosing the right shell type when shooting back.  If your win rate is bad when your average damage is up, then maybe you are just having a bad run of luck.  It will average out over the long run.  Check when you deal most of your damage.  If it is done late game as the enemy pushes to finish, then it is stat damage and not damage that will contribute to a win.  If that is the case, you need to evaluate how to get more damage on target earlier on.  Early damage will influence the game in your favor much more than late game damage.

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One of the main issues with Des Moines play is that many take the hide behind terrain advice too much to heart and play stationary all match.  Don't be afraid to push up and make an impact if you see an opportunity to do so.  Her rate of fire and devastating AP can make quite a difference when helping a push in the latter stages of a match.

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1 minute ago, Ace_04 said:

One of the main issues with Des Moines play is that many take the hide behind terrain advice too much to heart and play stationary all match.  Don't be afraid to push up and make an impact if you see an opportunity to do so.  Her rate of fire and devastating AP can make quite a difference when helping a push in the latter stages of a match.

^^^This.  If you can move to different areas and ambush ships, your rate of fire can devastate an unsuspecting enemy before they can turn their guns to protect themselves.

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posted this in the other thread and it applies here.

 

playing the DM is all about using map awareness and finding the key points on the map.  If you can get into a spot where your team is there to back you up, you become the anchor in that area.  You use your radar to zone people out and use your AA to keep CVs away.  DMs do not do well in open water or being out flanked.   Using Smokes, or islands to creep your way up is a good way to move around the map.  There really isn't anything in the game that likes being close to a DM.  If you know how to use that special AP, you can make even  BBs hate life. 

 

as others said. dont be afraid to push up. 

 

 

i can't say i support the spotter plane DM.  You take away a very powerful asset just to try and be a long range spammer.   There are far better ships to do that with.  unless the enemy is just sitting still you can farm him, they can actively dodge most of your shells at those greater ranges.  You go from being a great map control ship to a mediocre long range spammer.  Had one not too long ago almost never leave the AB line just to spam people at max range.  He was so far out of the fight most of the time, that i had to go and kill a fletcher by myself in my MO.  had that fletcher been a decent player, he could of killed me and won the match for their team. 

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yea im having issue with it too

think im just gonna abandon trying to use radar for my team

and do like the majority and screw the team

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Hide behind island

Wait for cap to start turning red

Radar, profit

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54 minutes ago, bubbleboy264 said:

I use the range mod btw, not reload. I have like 112k average damage in it but 42% win rate it’s so frustrating 

My guess is you're using that range mod to hit BBs with HE from far away and that's where a lot of your damage is coming from.  DM is all about getting relatively close and deleting other cruisers and DDs.

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18 minutes ago, iamplaya said:

yea im having issue with it too

think im just gonna abandon trying to use radar for my team

and do like the majority and screw the team

im having same issue has mentionned by a few

i try to find a island near the cap to support the dd and i get caught alot

i look back theres 3/4 of the team 30km from the cap just me and the dd contesting.....meh

i like it when im playing with a friend in a smoke cruiser then that helps alot....but in random i think i see a ally ship give me smoke cover once every 10 match if that

so ya i think im just gonna give in to the camping meta and screw the teamplay aspect like the majority of players do so what the hell ....why bother

im gonna start bejng more passive and ill probably enjoy the ship better

if im gonna win more well that in the hand of MM and RNGesus i guess

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Others have posted much of the same, but through 180ish DM games I'm tickling 94k dmg avg and 59% wr playing only solo, so I figured I'd weigh in. 

-Map awareness for sure is key, but more than that, you need to learn and know the islands themselves on every map. Some spots look good but are just low enough for enemy BBs to lob shells over. This also comes down to your opposition. US BBs are tough because those big, slow shells can reach places that faster shells won't; and watch for spotting planes. I've gotten many rude surprises from those. 

-Know the 'usual' routes that enemy players take. We know them, because we do it too. Every map has places that 9/10 will the point of a concentrated push in the early game; usually on the flanks. Post up in a good spot and wait. 

-Speaking of waiting, DM requires some patience. Overzealous pushes in the early game is a great way to get deleted. It took me awhile to stop getting discouraged when it's been 5 minutes and I'm at 8k damage. Your DPM is so good, that will jump to 60k in a couple minutes if you're in a good spot and enemies finally make their way over to you. 

-Become intimately familiar with what can and can't overmatch your armor, and use that knowledge to disengage when you know its a losing proposition. 

-Don't put yourself in a bad spot to use all your guns. I know it sucks losing 33% of your firepower, but the DM is surprisingly tanky when angled and just using the forward guns. 

-Trust your AP. Even at 13-14km you can get full pens and great damage on broadside ships. That said, your HE is excellent. Torture bow in BBs with your rate of fire and overwhelm their DamCon Parties. 

Summing up, don't get discouraged. I positively HATED the DM for a solid 30-40 games before it really clicked with me how to play it. Now it's one of my favorite and most played ships. A well positioned and played DM can absolutely lock down one side of the map from anything except walls of skill on your flank, and concerted multiple BB pushes. 

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My guess is you are using HE to spam battleships and cruisers from range instead of seeking to use the AP against cruisers and radar on dds at closer range.  The highest impact with DM you can have is if you can work your way into a position to use the AP on cruisers.  The dm can cripple or destroy cruisers within 15-30 seconds, and each opportunity you create for yourself to do that has a marked impact on the battle.  Finding ways to use the AP on battleships as well increases your effectiveness, as it can't be healed as easily as fire damage.  

 

Although at the same time randoms has been extremely bad recently.  One team lemmings in ~80% of the matches i have played recently.  Lots of low IQ gameplay.  Can't carry people who have no interest in living or winning.

Edited by RedRushian

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58 minutes ago, bubbleboy264 said:

I don’t really have anyone I can division with, I almost always play solo. And I keep getting super open maps like Okinawa where it’s hard to find great island cover. I can make the ship work in the open but it’s definitely not as effective as it is behind islands. What’s annoying is I try to push up and radar to help my DDs but I just get focused by half the enemy team. I try to do my job and I get punished for it. And I keep losing despite over 110k average damage. I keeps getting crap teams, but I’m worried I’m doing something wrong as well. I love the ship it’s a ton of fun but why do I keep losing 

I have similar problems but lower average damage. Playing with the range upgrade and spotter plane instead of radar helped me a bit to play Des Moines like a cruiser, not a RADAR cruiser. Missouri started working for me as soon as I started playing it like a BB that just happened to have radar instead of trying to get the most out of the radar.

A friend of mine had the most battles in the T6 Cleveland on the NA server for a long time. He knew each map and exactly where to set up on every one. So watch where other Des-Memes set up and do well (IOW don’t get blapped but can still shoot).  

I don’t have time to look up your survival rate but cruisers become more powerful as the battle progresses. I don’t like playing the cowardly cruiser; however, it’s a lot safer to move around with 7 enemy ships than with 12. Whichever side has the surviving DDs often wins, so what kills DDs?  Cruisers and other DDs. 

Honestly I don’t like the play style Des Moines excels at but I’m beginning to figure it out. 

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1 hour ago, bubbleboy264 said:

I have high average damage

 

Your stats in the DM look great. The only thing I would ask is whether your damage is good damage or just damage. Meaning: are you getting 100k damage by burning 3 BBs for 33k each or is this 100k pounding DDs and doing unrepairable damage to cruisers?

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My first tier ten ship it was, and I did awful in it. I probably would do better in her now than I did back then.

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2 hours ago, bubbleboy264 said:

I keep losing in it and I die a lot. I don’t get it, I try and use islands as much as I can and I have high average damage, but my win rate sucks and it brings down my average xp per game. I don’t understand, do I just keep getting crap teams or am I playing it wrong. I’m good in it, but I keep losing. It’s so frustrating

Please watch this guy play the Des Moines. After watching him I ran my Baltimore up to over 70% pre split and My Worcester is now well over 70% all solo. his playstyle will change your life.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, bubbleboy264 said:

I use the range mod btw, not reload. I have like 112k average damage in it but 42% win rate it’s so frustrating 

Having only 26 games in the Des Moines is a small sample size to go off of.  If you have replays to look at to see what is going on in given matches it would be easier to help.  Range is a good option but it confines you to being behind cover with someone spotting for you to do damage.  I prefer to use reload mod amd lock down a flank from being pushed in the Des Moines and surviving until the enemy team is thinned out enough so there are less angles for you to be shot from.  

The things that will sway the game in your teams favor are killing high priority targets.  Not that there is anything wrong with farming damage and getting big numbers, but it generally doesn't help win unless you have the kills to back it up.  

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I just make it my goal in dm to murder every cruiser and everything DD on the enemy and it works out for me fairly well

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2 hours ago, NoZoupForYou said:

The key to des moines is not only using terrain as cover, but using terrain that allows you to use firing angles on both sides of the map while still protecting you.  There is a fine line in the Des Moines and you have to skirt danger to make your radar useful.

I suggest divisioning up with players that can provide you with support.  I.e. DDs with smoke.  Its quid pro quo with them.

Pretty sure win rate will go up in general, in any ship, if divisioned with competent players. That's the best none advice on how to play a very specific ship. 

Finding the a good position is also general advice for basically any ship. OP clearly knows Des Moines has to hump islands (but really does it?). What OP really needs is markers on maps showing where to hump correctly. That can't easily be figured out by OP himself, if he just tries different positions and different islands. The map design of the game is such that corridors are inbuilt in maps with obstacles. Finding the corridors are not hard, if OP does not have that ability to figure that most basic map info out, then... tough luck. 

Your advice can be summed up to be "find good cover, play with divisions". Do you see how pointless that advice is?

Edited by NeutralState

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you had a total of 26 games........WR means nothing at this game count

 

during the week of me spamming DM to get halsey, i play about 20~25 games per evening, and i had a 40% WR night right after a 80% WR night

get your battle count up to at least 3 digit, then WR means something

 

this also happened during that week

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6mkh1jM.png

 then this happened the night after

unknown.png

Edited by jason199506
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It all depends on how YOU react to certain situations and if there is one ship that is situational it's the Des Moines. 

Sometimes having patience can be the difference between 100k+ games and 200k+ games, you have the concealment to stay hidden until you are either detected or you decide to start shooting, use that to your advantage, DON'T start shooting at the first target that pops up but let them draw inside your bubble of DPM until the right moment, giving away your position too soon will draw away enemies too soon, so try to hold your fire until the right time. 

Think ahead and never be that stereotypical Des Moines player that stays behind the same island for the entire game.

By thinking ahead I mean, look at the enemy composition and start contemplating what your main targets should be (*coughs* Mino *coughs*), look at the divisions in the enemy team and plan ahead when you see one of them pop up near you, it usually means the rest of the division is coming your way too.

Plan ahead what your next position will be and don't be afraid to push into 3 ships when you can clearly see they are aiming into the opposite direction, your fast reload will make those 3 ships disappear like snow in the sun.

I've found the Des Moines and the Minotaur to be the most difficult ships to master on TX but once mastered they are both pure horror for the enemy team.

If you still need more experience in the game I would suggest getting the Hindenburg if you can, that's overall the best cruiser to play since it's not as situational as the CA's mentioned above.

Good luck & most importantly have fun ;)

o7

Spacey_

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I cant seem to do very well with Des Moines either, I don't click with her. She's primarily a shoot from behind cover ship but I can never seem to find a good spot to do that with any bote. Besides, in Cruisers I'm more of a drive by shooter, running and gunning from cover to cover.

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