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db4100

WG, Do You Want to Fix CVs? Then Get Rid of Strafing

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It has been while since I played CVs, now I remember why I quit them for a while.....STRAFING.  Hey WG, not everyone has fast internet connections, and with the strafing the fastest connection speed wins.  With strafing you turn a strategy CV game into a game of quick reflexes that is similar to the old Nintendo fighting game.  The age of the average player of World of Warships is in the 40s?  So, how is this mechanic easy for the young at heart?   I enjoy playing CVs until I run into an expert strafer that flattens my air force in a blink of an eye.  With strafing the skill gap is waaaay to big between those whom can strafe well vs. whom who can't.  Another point against strafing....how in the [edited] is strafing a common world war two tactic?  The only strafing mentioned historically is in old war footage and picture in history books where the planes strafed surface targets.  WG, you already got rid of strafing at the lower levels.....hmmm.

WG, you want to fix aircraft carriers?  Get rid of strafing.  

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It'd be easier to just give CV's a miss until the changes are made.

No point in getting better if the whole thing is going to be thrown out the window.

Otherwise, stick to Tier IV and V, no strafing, no manual drops.

Edited by HyperFish

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For my 1000th post, I thought it would be appropriate to highjack this thread and just say that I hate CV's in every shape and form, much like arty in WoT. :Smile_glasses:

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Strafing is kind if I win button when it's done right.

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22 minutes ago, _Rumple_ said:

For my 1000th post, I thought it would be appropriate to highjack this thread and just say that I hate CV's in every shape and form, much like arty in WoT. :Smile_glasses:

Sounds like you may want to go play another game then if you have posted a 1000 rants. You quite obviously have a lot of problems with WG's games. Maybe WT is more your style? If not that  candyland is still available. No Big Bad arty or cv's there!

Edited by DESRON10
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40 minutes ago, db4100 said:

It has been while since I played CVs, now I remember why I quit them for a while.....STRAFING.  Hey WG, not everyone has fast internet connections, and with the strafing the fastest connection speed wins.  With strafing you turn a strategy CV game into a game of quick reflexes that is similar to the old Nintendo fighting game.  The age of the average player of World of Warships is in the 40s?  So, how is this mechanic easy for the young at heart?   I enjoy playing CVs until I run into an expert strafer that flattens my air force in a blink of an eye.  With strafing the skill gap is waaaay to big between those whom can strafe well vs. whom who can't.  Another point against strafing....how in the [edited] is strafing a common world war two tactic?  The only strafing mentioned historically is in old war footage and picture in history books where the planes strafed surface targets.  WG, you already got rid of strafing at the lower levels.....hmmm.

WG, you want to fix aircraft carriers?  Get rid of strafing.  

I agree,  it makes a difficult game mode almost impossible.  I dont even bother playing CV over tier 5.

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5 minutes ago, DESRON10 said:

Sounds like you may want to go play another game then if you have posted a 1000 rants. You quite obviously have a lot of problems with WG's games. Maybe WT is more your style? If not that  candyland is still available. No Big Bad arty or cv's there!

I'm having a little fun/poking fun at CV's. Take a chill pill and relax...and I don't rant.

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39 minutes ago, db4100 said:

It has been while since I played CVs, now I remember why I quit them for a while.....STRAFING.  Hey WG, not everyone has fast internet connections, and with the strafing the fastest connection speed wins.  With strafing you turn a strategy CV game into a game of quick reflexes that is similar to the old Nintendo fighting game.  The age of the average player of World of Warships is in the 40s?  So, how is this mechanic easy for the young at heart?   I enjoy playing CVs until I run into an expert strafer that flattens my air force in a blink of an eye.  With strafing the skill gap is waaaay to big between those whom can strafe well vs. whom who can't.  Another point against strafing....how in the [edited] is strafing a common world war two tactic?  The only strafing mentioned historically is in old war footage and picture in history books where the planes strafed surface targets.  WG, you already got rid of strafing at the lower levels.....hmmm.

WG, you want to fix aircraft carriers?  Get rid of strafing.

Look at tier 4 and 5 then look at tier 7 and 8 CVs notice anything different, if they were to get rid of strafing there would be 1 thing they would need to change on CVs but yet everyone seems to overlook it. If they fixed that issue then there would be no reason for strafe and they could remove it closing the skill gap big time to the point there is no real skill gap.

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Be careful what you wish for.  Strafes are the only thing that USN CVs have to put fear into another CV, because everything else in they suck due to their limited specs.  When the game had no Strafes, the advantage simply went to the CV with more units.  Throw more planes in the air than the opposing CV can stop with Left Click air combat fighters.

 

Example: You had 2/0/2 Air Superiority Rangers literally get run over by the old 0/3/3 Strike Hiryu (yes, no fighters on old Strike Hiryu).  Ranger fighters can only stop 2 bombers while the others came in clean.

 

Another concern was that without Strafes, the USN fighter becomes much, much more vulnerable as the IJN CV simply had to swarm the USN fighter with mass fighter units.  1 Ranger fighter will get buried by 2 Hiryu fighters.  1 Lexington fighter will get buried by 2 Shokaku fighters.

 

In the current game, if you took Strafes away, I foresee many USN CVs doing worse than they even are now.  IJN CVs will look even better than they do today.

 

Bogue's superiority in Tier V will now be hotly contested as she can no longer strafe away Zuiho's planes.  Zuiho mass of bombers cannot be stopped.

 

Ryujo will rip apart Independence even more.  1 Independence fighter is not going to stop 1/2/2 or 3/1/1 Ryujo spec.

 

Ranger would get absolutely buried with her current 1/1/2 against any spec of Hiryu 2/2/2 or 3/1/2.  She lacks the bombers to overwhelm nor the fighter power to stop an airstrike without Strafing.

 

Lexington with her 1/1/2 will get absolutely CRUSHED in Tier VIII against any of the other VIII CVs.  She gets crushed now, but it will be worse if she doesn't have Strafe to try and even the field.

 

The Tier IX-X USN CVs will do better than their predecessors but the IJN CVs there field a massive swarm of aircraft units.  It'd be interesting though to watch.

 

Saipan, Enterprise should do fine.  Kaga will be scary as you can no longer just quickly strafe away her bombers.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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16 minutes ago, _Rumple_ said:

For my 1000th post, I thought it would be appropriate to highjack this thread and just say that I hate CV's in every shape and form, much like arty in WoT. :Smile_glasses:

 

Сomparison is not the most successful since squads can be fully destroyed with AA defence, if you take all mods and perks on suitable ship. You even have option to go with teammates with good AA if yours is worse. There were battles when I couldn't do anything with my AC exept spotting and terrifying red team with torps from large distance.    

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1 hour ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Be careful what you wish for.  Strafes are the only thing that USN CVs have to put fear into another CV, because everything else in they suck due to their limited specs.  When the game had no Strafes, the advantage simply went to the CV with more units.  Throw more planes in the air than the opposing CV can stop with Left Click air combat fighters.

 

Example: You had 2/0/2 Air Superiority Rangers literally get run over by the old 0/3/3 Strike Hiryu (yes, no fighters on old Strike Hiryu).  Ranger fighters can only stop 2 bombers while the others came in clean.

 

Another concern was that without Strafes, the USN fighter becomes much, much more vulnerable as the IJN CV simply had to swarm the USN fighter with mass fighter units.  1 Ranger fighter will get buried by 2 Hiryu fighters.  1 Lexington fighter will get buried by 2 Shokaku fighters.

 

In the current game, if you took Strafes away, I foresee many USN CVs doing worse than they even are now.  IJN CVs will look even better than they do today.

 

Bogue's superiority in Tier V will now be hotly contested as she can no longer strafe away Zuiho's planes.  Zuiho mass of bombers cannot be stopped.

 

Ryujo will rip apart Independence even more.  1 Independence fighter is not going to stop 1/2/2 or 3/1/1 Ryujo spec.

 

Ranger would get absolutely buried with her current 1/1/2 against any spec of Hiryu 2/2/2 or 3/1/2.  She lacks the bombers to overwhelm nor the fighter power to stop an airstrike without Strafing.

 

Lexington with her 1/1/2 will get absolutely CRUSHED in Tier VIII against any of the other VIII CVs.  She gets crushed now, but it will be worse if she doesn't have Strafe to try and even the field.

 

The Tier IX-X USN CVs will do better than their predecessors but the IJN CVs there field a massive swarm of aircraft units.  It'd be interesting though to watch.

 

Saipan, Enterprise should do fine.  Kaga will be scary as you can no longer just quickly strafe away her bombers.

I totally disagree with what you wrote.  NO, the USN will not suffer without the strafes.  The problem is only having one fighter squadron while the IJN and Enterprise has two.  One to engage you, and the other to strafe you.  I got owned by this technique.  The worse [edited]kicking I got was from another CV player using strafe using 2 separate fighter squadrons (of course with the +1 from "air superiority" skill).  I held my own vs CVs with only one fighter squadron.  The intricate strafing weave is a sight to behold and deadly.  I can't master that using satellite internet.....not possible.  I don't think I could master the strafe with high speed internet either. 

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9 minutes ago, turbo07 said:

 

Сomparison is not the most successful since squads can be fully destroyed with AA defence, if you take all mods and perks on suitable ship. You even have option to go with teammates with good AA if yours is worse. There were battles when I couldn't do anything with my AC exept spotting and terrifying red team with torps from large distance.    

Yes, I agree.  This is were "experience" will get your CV through the game.  Someone on the other team will expose themselves to an airstrike eventually.  If not, then they used the right strategy, and kudos to them.  It is foolish to attack ships that have a 99+ AA rating.  CVs force ships with strong main guns and armor that's only weakness is crappy AA to play more conservative.  To me it is part of the checks and balances.  Why play ships that have their best attribute being strong AA if you rarely run into aircraft carriers in matches?  When an Ace CV player instantly flames anything the other CV driver puts up then the team suffers too.  Air superiority by one CV is a huge advantage in the game.  It means one side has to play grouped together, while the other team with the Ace CV player can freely move about the map to gain positional advantages.  The main problem with CV is the huge disparity of skill by the players, and getting rid of strafing will relieve that problem.....just like what WG did to CVs at tier four and five.

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Remove Japanese Carriers...and we can turn back time, return to those ye olde days, when you cannot strafe but queue attack orders...and up to 16 fighter squads can duke it out...

 

Spoiler

cnW6HPI.jpg

 

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1 hour ago, db4100 said:

I totally disagree with what you wrote.  NO, the USN will not suffer without the strafes.  The problem is only having one fighter squadron while the IJN and Enterprise has two.  One to engage you, and the other to strafe you.  I got owned by this technique.  The worse [edited]kicking I got was from another CV player using strafe using 2 separate fighter squadrons (of course with the +1 from "air superiority" skill).  I held my own vs CVs with only one fighter squadron.  The intricate strafing weave is a sight to behold and deadly.  I can't master that using satellite internet.....not possible.  I don't think I could master the strafe with high speed internet either. 

I agree with this I just always fall into the strafing weave and so far I cant figure out what I can do about this I wish the USN CV had the same number of fighter squads as the CV's they face it would be interesting to see if that tweak would make any difference

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1 hour ago, db4100 said:

I totally disagree with what you wrote.  NO, the USN will not suffer without the strafes.  The problem is only having one fighter squadron while the IJN and Enterprise has two.  One to engage you, and the other to strafe you.  I got owned by this technique.  The worse [edited]kicking I got was from another CV player using strafe using 2 separate fighter squadrons (of course with the +1 from "air superiority" skill).  I held my own vs CVs with only one fighter squadron.  The intricate strafing weave is a sight to behold and deadly.  I can't master that using satellite internet.....not possible.  I don't think I could master the strafe with high speed internet either. 

So you say the problem is US CV only having 1 fighter squad and US CV won't suffer without strafe but then you go and complain about having 1 fighter squad when facing 2 squads, that is the reason US CV need strafe to compete with IJN CV and the amount of squads they have. You take away strafe US CV will suffer as they won't be able to compete with other CVs so taking strafe away will nerf US CV big time and buff IJN CV. US CV need a 2nd fighter squad to remove stafe it's the only way to balance it out by taking away strafe.

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Without strafe, tiers 6-8 become a sniper's paradise.

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Thanks to this post, I now know why when I try to strafe, it rarely works: my internet connection. The higher the tier, the less success I have.  It explains a lot. It took many games, but I can hold my own at T6-7 against most opponents, T8 is so-so, but T9-10 was so discouraging in any of the game modes, I no longer want to play them. I set up strafes against the other player, only to see zero results. I watch the planes shoot them and nothing happens, while their planes drop my planes even when I juke, lock and strafe,  or change paths. I thought they had some new modual or buff I didn't have. Internet lag would explain all of the problems I have and explains many of the complaints I read. The higher tier games take much more bandwidth, causing delays, even by microseconds, that affect how the game plays.

I only have a DSL connection, the only choice I have. it's starting to make since why I find high tier games so  frustrating- it's not the "GET GUD" crap I keep hearing, I do pretty well at T4-8 games I play, but the internet connection/speeds I have to deal with. So many times I am scratching my head wondering why the Torp spread hits nothing while I see it go right by the ship aimed or my shell go right thru the target I shot at with no effect, or "just missed".

Looks like I have a choice to make, leave or stay at lower tiers as that's all my situation(computer, internet connection, location) can handle.

Thank you for this enlightening thread.

 

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There are many problems with CV's, I really don't think you can say strafing is the main issue, imo, far from it. Strafing merely highlights a skill discrepancy between two players, not the reason why CV's, in their current state, don't fit in this game. WG has really dug themselves a deep hole here, they have been saying "CV Rework" and "Year of the CV" since 2016, all we got was minor tweaks. They need a way to make CV play fun and engaging, not how WG defines it though, and be balanced within the game. I am awaiting what they come up with, but honestly, I don't know if WG has the capabilities to figure it out, not trying to be hyper-negative but I really question their balancing abilities.

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Why not Remove strafe but add additional fighter squads and fighters in hangers.

 

For example::

If a IJN carrier has 2 squads of 4 now , give  her 3 squads of 4

If US carrier has 1 squad of 6, give her 2 squads of 6

 

Without strafe a increase fighters will create a playstyle of chess  giving more direct air cover to ships.

 

I do believe they should also allow fighters to be able to disengage  fighter combat to attack torp and bombers, with a huge penalty to defense. Allowing  air cover to properly protect ships.

I also think strafe should be change to attackk ships not planes to destroy AA mounts, secondary mount and torp tubes.

I love and hate strafe. Even if you know how to use it properly. Its a dumb mechanic,  one split sec of lag or missed strafe and you will pay the rest of the match. Its to stressful and doesn't lead to fun gameplay.  

 

Also what would happen if they removed strafe but allowed you to release all your fighters at once having multi squads out, but  say they added fuel to the mechanic where  you have 5-10 min of fuel to each squad.  

Edited by OppressorUnion

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19 hours ago, db4100 said:

It has been while since I played CVs, now I remember why I quit them for a while.....STRAFING.  Hey WG, not everyone has fast internet connections, and with the strafing the fastest connection speed wins.  With strafing you turn a strategy CV game into a game of quick reflexes that is similar to the old Nintendo fighting game.  The age of the average player of World of Warships is in the 40s?  So, how is this mechanic easy for the young at heart?   I enjoy playing CVs until I run into an expert strafer that flattens my air force in a blink of an eye.  With strafing the skill gap is waaaay to big between those whom can strafe well vs. whom who can't.  Another point against strafing....how in the [edited] is strafing a common world war two tactic?  The only strafing mentioned historically is in old war footage and picture in history books where the planes strafed surface targets.  WG, you already got rid of strafing at the lower levels.....hmmm.

WG, you want to fix aircraft carriers?  Get rid of strafing.  

Not to be a [edited], but if your internet is bad enough where you can't have the basic APM to activate a channel skill on a game where units have a severe delay time due to the pathing mechanics, then that means you should NOT be playing multiplayer PVP games at all. 

YOu shouldn't play Starcraft, Quake, any MOBA or FPSs for that matter. 

 

NOW, if you said that the WoWS engine is sluggish AF and hardly easily responsive with it's clunky mechanics and that causes Strafe jousting to be mitigated to an RNG of engine related issues? Sure, I'd get it.

But in the words of the Age of Empire 2 taunt?

 

"Sure, blame it on your ISP"

Edited by Nurhaal

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If you take strafing out, then whomever has the most fighter squadrons wins... and can torp/bomb with impunity.

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Getting rid of strafing would just give us old problems back, and IJN fighters are all faster than the USN now I think, so it would be worse.

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'Strafing' was the worst mechanic invented in the game. As others have said, it becomes an instant 'I win' button for the person with the better internet connection. 

And, heck, it really has no historical basis (probably why they used the term 'strafing' - because there isn't any real military term for this GAME mechanic) - - I mean seriously, when did you hear about carrier fighters all lining up and flying in a straight line holding down their triggers until most of their ammo was gone - - then  landing and doing the same thing over and over again? I think someone at WG missed the concept of dogfighting altogether….

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4 minutes ago, Madwolf05 said:

Getting rid of strafing would just give us old problems back, and IJN fighters are all faster than the USN now I think, so it would be worse.

For sure. But there's NO keeping strafe. No one likes it and WG has finally agreed that it is unfun and difficult to use, and super, SUPER OP in the right hands, while in the wrong ones, it's only useful for accidentally shooting down allied planes that were trying to attack the enemy planes that escaped the bad player's poorly timed strafe.

Edited by legoboy0401

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3 minutes ago, capncrunch21 said:

'Strafing' was the worst mechanic invented in the game. As others have said, it becomes an instant 'I win' button for the person with the better internet connection. 

And, heck, it really has no historical basis (probably why they used the term 'strafing' - because there isn't any real military term for this GAME mechanic) - - I mean seriously, when did you hear about carrier fighters all lining up and flying in a straight line holding down their triggers until most of their ammo was gone - - then  landing and doing the same thing over and over again? I think someone at WG missed the concept of dogfighting altogether….

Also, when faced with someone who knows what they are doing and is excellent at micro-management(a female, maybe?:cap_hmm:) it's just bait, fail to take the bait, bait by the other player, you fail to take the bait, bait player 1, player 1 doesn't take the bait, player 1 baits player 2, player 2 fails to take the bait ad infinitum until one player makes a mistake/gets unlucky/gets lag etc.

 

CV players be like:

 

dodged-your-bait-27681098.png

 

I'm sorry, but that's just not my idea of fun. That gets stale and frustrating all too fast. This is why I don't play Tier VI+ CVs except in co-op against bots who don't strafe well.

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