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RadDisconnect

How do you play solo in Des Moines?

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I only played this ship for a bit but I'm having a really tough time. I just don't have this ship figured out and I find it really hard to win games right now, and like the Minotaur it seems to be really dependent on your team not collapsing. How do you carry in this thing, since it's rather fragile and seems to be quite sluggish. If your DDs don't help give vision control then you're in a really tough spot even with radar.

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17 minutes ago, RadDisconnect said:

I only played this ship for a bit but I'm having a really tough time. I just don't have this ship figured out and I find it really hard to win games right now, and like the Minotaur it seems to be really dependent on your team not collapsing. How do you carry in this thing, since it's rather fragile and seems to be quite sluggish. If your DDs don't help give vision control then you're in a really tough spot even with radar.

I play it the same way I do Divisioned up, try to support the caps, playing short ranges.  Secondly, finding a good spot to pour gunfire out to enemy targets.

 

If the map is something like Ocean or you're spawned in the middle or south in Okinawa, you're kind of hosed.

 

You are correct in feeling that dependency on a decent team.  All the High Tier USN Cruisers are like this, even the USN CLs.  Worcester, Cleveland, Baltimore, Des Memes, etc., they cannot do their thing if the team is collapsing, the DDs are dead or not spotting, etc.  This is in sharp contrast to, say, Zao or Hindenburg.  You can have a team of potatoes playing like sh*t, but your playstyle, personal performance can still be good to go.  Zao, Hindy for example, can still be dangerous while retreating.  Matter of fact, Zao is *especially* dangerous if she's kiting.  They can shoot at range as they run.  On the flip side, DM, Worcester, etc. with their floaty shells need to be closer to be effective.  They're also squishy, and people will quickly switch to you if they spot you in the open running away due to a collapsing team.

 

I can get Des Moines into a spot and radar a bunch of high value targets for almost a minute, and I will find myself being the only one shooting at them.  The potatoes behind me are ignoring the DDs I'm radaring that are within 9km of the team so that they can try to hit that Yamato 18km away.  Sometimes you got decent players on your team that understand what you're doing and will take advantage of your efforts, and crush those targets you radar'd.  Sometimes though...

giphy.webp

 

If you want a less team-dependent Cruiser Line, I highly suggest to stop USN Cruisers and do IJN, German, or RU instead.  Less heartache and stress that way.  I know it's late to say this after you've worked towards DM, but even with DM as my most favorite and best performing Tier X Cruiser, it has some big issues, and team dependency is one of those.

 

Play Zao, play Hindenburg, stay at 15km+ and fire away, even in open water.  In contrast to the USN Cruiser playstyle where your'e paranoid and stressing.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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The USN cruisers, and by extension the Des Moines, work best when teamed up with others. They cannot strike out on their own as easily as every other countries' cruisers.

Now, the run of the mill answer is to find the nearest tactically convenient island and hug it harder than a hippy hugs a tree while you're lobbing shells over it.

My personal answer is to roll with a battleship that is mildly aggressive and support his push. Don't hang with the passive pod of battleships at the back of the map or the suicidal battleships charging into the jaws of the enemy team.

Spoiler

Specifics:

  • Find a way to close the distant between you and the target without getting shot to pieces while you move in. You're guns have one of, if not the highest DPS, in the game, but does jack crapat long range.
  • Time you're opponents volleys so that you know when to start dodging. Like air dropped torpedoes, if you start dodging when you see them moving towards you, it's too late.
  • As much as I cracked a joke about it, island cover is still very useful, just don't camp behind one particular island all the time. Be mobile.

 

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16 hours ago, RadDisconnect said:

I only played this ship for a bit but I'm having a really tough time. I just don't have this ship figured out and I find it really hard to win games right now, and like the Minotaur it seems to be really dependent on your team not collapsing. How do you carry in this thing, since it's rather fragile and seems to be quite sluggish. If your DDs don't help give vision control then you're in a really tough spot even with radar.

Take the range module. At range you can kite slow firing BBs if you are patient and careful, meaning that you can survive for a while on Okinawa and Ocean. I abuse  range and do a lot of mid- and late-game kiting since you can fire salvo after salvo when only one ship can engage you. Practice in coop to hone your skills so you can reliably generate hits at max range. 

Range also enables you to engage ships from behind islands long before they can flank or push you. Be patient about choosing when to shoot and when to remain silent, and when you poke out to fire immediately reverse, because you can be cit with even a little bow showing. Always pay attention and begin relocating long before the push arrives.

But once you're flanked, you're easy meat. Bow on will save you for a while....

Basic problem with the DM, like all US cruisers, is the anemic engine. So unrealistic......

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18 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Play Zao, play Hindenburg, stay at 15km+ and fire away, even in open water.  In contrast to the USN Cruiser playstyle where your'e paranoid and stressing.

Except; (forgetting for a moment I dislike high tier games themselves...)

They’re magical paper napkins, which i despise.

They’re popular ships, which I consistently never seem to do well with.

Highest related to those I have right now are Aoba and Yorck, and I’ve been in since Sept ‘15.

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44 minutes ago, RadDisconnect said:

Should I take propulsion mod over rudder?

I wouldn't recommend it. Propulsion mod 2 only affects how fast the ship accelerates from 0 to 6 or -6 knots. It's not bad, per se, but I've tried both and I didn't really notice much of a difference with or without PM2. Steering gears mod 2 is more likely to help you out in a nasty situation.

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I out perform every single one of my tier 10s in every stat on my Des Moines. Yet it has the worst win rate of them all...

This is why;

Spoiler

shot-18_07.19_00_18.57-0102.thumb.jpg.46fc767aab5376a434c9f1136b610f85.jpg

They really need to address ships that are too team dependent or stop counting losses if you finish top of the team... Especially with how bad there MM is at balancing teams.

Edited by Stand_Alone97

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There are a couple of basic ways you can play a Des Moines.

1. The short range, high DPM, close support ship.  The DM can be very effective in this role and can influence battles if played well.  You have to work your angles and abuse terrain to the max, so as not to expose yourself to the entire enemy team.

2. The long range kiter.  Playing the DM this way may not make you popular with some teams who expect you to have radar and to be up front using it.  The long range kiting DM will often exchange radar for the spotter plane, abuse terrain as much as possible, and try to HE spam any BB in its range.  While your shell flight times are long, the floaty arcs mean that you will be lobbing shells over many islands that other kiting cruisers could only dream of doing.  I expect that a skilled kiter can do a lot of damage this way, but I'm not so sure that you will have the same ability to strongly influence battles that you'd have as a close range support ship.

 

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I experimented heavily during space battles to see if their was another way to play des Moines.

Nope. Unless you are willing to bet on poor aim from the red team.

You must hug islands for cover while dealing your damage. You must be well supported, because their is no protection from a rush (like torps would provide). You can fire from smoke at your own risk, of getting blind shot deleted.

Good DPM, with either HE or AP. Solid AA. And (arguably) strong consumables, means that taking damage is its weakness.

Many videos available to show play style, but i have only rarely seen anyone able to influence game solo.

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realize that 1 on 1, DM is the strongest TX cruiser 

 

then go and abuse other cruisers

 

 

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3 minutes ago, jason199506 said:

realize that 1 on 1, DM is the strongest TX cruiser 

 

then go and abuse other cruisers

 

 

 

nope. Salem strongest 1 on 1 cruiser

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22 minutes ago, Komrade_Rylo said:

 

nope. Salem strongest 1 on 1 cruiser

oops........

but consider that i only saw a grand total of 1 salem in random battle ever since ST ended..........

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Just now, jason199506 said:

oops........

but consider that i only saw a grand total of 1 salem in random battle ever since ST ended..........

 

i'm getting it instead of stalingrad once i have enough spare steel to stack on top of my coal

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Shocked this wasn't posted.

 

 

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8 hours ago, jason199506 said:

realize that 1 on 1, DM is the strongest TX cruiser 

 

then go and abuse other cruisers

 

 

It's rarely just a 1v1 in randoms and at longer ranges it's easier to dodge shots from a DM.

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playing the DM is all about using map awareness and finding the key points on the map.  If you can get into a spot where your team is there to back you up, you become the anchor in that area.  You use your radar to zone people out and use your AA to keep CVs away.  DMs do not do well in open water or being out flanked.   Using Smokes, or islands to creep your way up is a good way to move around the map.  There really isn't anything in the game that likes being close to a DM.  If you know how to use that special AP, you can make even  BBs hate life. 

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I play DM solo. I don't normally have division-mates. You really have to pick and choose your cover and range and anticipate where your team is going. If your team collapses on you, you are screwed if you didn't anticipate it happening in time. The big thing DM taught me is know when to fire and know when not to fire. Do not shoot (and make yourself detected) over open water unless you can make those shots count - meaning you can  significantly damage (in a permanent way) or kill something, and you can survive the return fire for at least 15 seconds. That's realistically about the time you have for an enemy cruiser or BB to realize you are there, traverse their guns, and open fire, before you fade out. (I don't really care about DDs targeting me in DM.) The longer you take to shoot at something to kill it or damage it significantly, the more you extend that time window you have to be able to survive the return fire.

If you can shoot from cover, that essentially  negates that 15 second window, but you must be very situationally aware. DMs acceleration is the single worst aspect of the ship IMHO. She is VERY slow getting up to speed for a ship that spends a lot of time stationary. You MUST have good situational awareness and sense when you team is collapsing and leaving you exposed and get out of there. Most of the time you can see this happening if you pay attention.  If you don't see it happening in time, and there is a BB with 16" guns or larger, you will die. 

DM is not as fragile a CA as people make it out to be. It can take a lot of abuse if angled well, but it becomes  fragile if you angle badly. You can usually survive a salvo or 2 from a BB if you are presenting a small profile. If you have too big a profile, BBs and CAs will end you in a pass (but that is true for all CAs). Also know which BBs can't pen you through the bow with AP - Alsace, Richy and Gassy can't. Biz and Tirp can't. Monarch can't but it is almost always slinging HE anyway. If they are coming at you close with them bow-on and rake their superstructures. The flatter the trajectory of their rounds, the better off you are. You want them hitting your bow not your sides or deck. You can pretty much tank them all day long that way although you may start losing turrets. Even if they go HE you'll out DPs them. Any other BB at close range you have basically 2-4 of their broadsides to live, period. Use good situational awareness so you don't end up in positions like that. That's the only defense you have. 

 

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I have been experimenting with dropping radar and going with a long range build with the spotter plane - there are so many radar ships around that the team can take the hit and dds still need to assume you have it... DM and Moskva are the two t10 cas I have the most trouble with solo, and I've never divisioned. 

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The Des Moines (and for T10 in general) there is the poor play, the average play, the good play, and the great/unicum play.

I'll start at the top.  Map awareness, match awareness, and positioning.  This is the realm of the unicum player, which I am not.  The great Des Moines players know the maps, know where to position, and know how to put the hurt down.  It requires work.  Knowledge.  Practice.  Skill.  This is too much work for me, and most other players...so lets go to the good players.

Good play is more about general rules.  Look for cover.  Don't get outflanked.  It's a dumbed down version of the unicum approach.  You have map awareness and positioning, just not as refined as those who really 'know the map".  Discover these concepts and the good life awaits.  Not the unicum life...but good (for most) is good enough...and fun too.

Average play.  Those who are just there to drive around and shoot, but have otherwise decent skills sets.  These players are pure "seat of the pants" players and often discover what works at any particular time based on the fact they are still alive to continue to pursue the strategy or tactic they have adopted for the game.

Poor play.  The same as average, except with a player who doesn't have an otherwise decent skill set.  

 

I like to think of my play as somewhere between average and good.  That hits my sweet spot for fun.   

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15 hours ago, RadDisconnect said:

I only played this ship for a bit but I'm having a really tough time. I just don't have this ship figured out and I find it really hard to win games right now, and like the Minotaur it seems to be really dependent on your team not collapsing. How do you carry in this thing, since it's rather fragile and seems to be quite sluggish. If your DDs don't help give vision control then you're in a really tough spot even with radar.

Two secret tips no one will tell you. I took them from the best player in the game, Cat on Board.

1) ignore your back guns, pretend you don't have them, so many des Moines players try to get all three turrets firing they leave their big fat bellies open to get jellied. Stay as thin as possible at all times.

2) RPF, you ambush, you don't get ambushed.

 

thank me later.

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