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NeutralState

Concealmente Expert is THE Must Have Cpt Skill for ALL Ships

CE is essential for all class of ships?  

119 members have voted

  1. 1. CE is essential for all class of ships?

    • Yes
      47
    • No
      72

47 comments in this topic

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Just now, NeutralState said:

CE is essential for all class of ships?

I would say for about 90-95% of ships.  Khabs don't need CE for example, incoming fire and speed.

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Broadly speaking, yes. 

Detailed examination, something like 95%. Exceptions like Khab for example exist.

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When I'm in my German BBs, I don't care if I'm being noticed.  Odds are, I'm usually up in someone's grill anyways.

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It's not particularly needed on Aircraft Carriers, since they will typically be quite a ways from the battle. I do think the skill is too powerful in general though, it's nearly mandatory for almost all cases of two of four ship types.

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Brawling battleships have other things to spend the points on.  So no.

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They should buff all DDs down to the concealment expert level and just remove the damn skill. It shouldn't be around for cruisers and BBs anyways.

Only problem with that is everyone would have four free points to spend on some over-powered additional tool.

I can imagine 18-20 people per match running RPF and hearing all of the DDs howl.

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23 minutes ago, Battleship_lowa said:

It's not particularly needed on Aircraft Carriers, since they will typically be quite a ways from the battle. I do think the skill is too powerful in general though, it's nearly mandatory for almost all cases of two of four ship types.

I think part of the issue with the skill feeling too powerful/mandatory on most ships is due to WG making the larger ships get more benefit out of it. 16% for CVs, 14% for BBs, and only 12% and 10% for CAs and DDs, respectively.

It makes the skill bring some BB detection ranges down to cruiser levels, which isn't much fun for the cruisers generally. I wouldn't care if WG changed it so capital ships (BBs and CVs) only get a 10% bonus like DDs, leaving the cruisers at a 12% bonus, they kind of need it in my opinion.

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CE is preferred for all ships, but I would argue against the "essential" part.
For example, a secondary build bismarck usually can do just fine with concealment module alone.

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53 minutes ago, Prothall said:

They should buff all DDs down to the concealment expert level and just remove the damn skill. It shouldn't be around for cruisers and BBs anyways.

Only problem with that is everyone would have four free points to spend on some over-powered additional tool.

I can imagine 18-20 people per match running RPF and hearing all of the DDs howl.

Or rather than remove it, replace it with a Camouflage Expert skill which increases the dispersion of all shells aimed at the ship.  Unless the benefit was ridiculously OP, a "Camo Expert" skill would probably be more of a nice skill that competes with other skills rather than a must have skill.

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56 minutes ago, Prothall said:

They should buff all DDs down to the concealment expert level and just remove the damn skill. It shouldn't be around for cruisers and BBs anyways.

Only problem with that is everyone would have four free points to spend on some over-powered additional tool.

I can imagine 18-20 people per match running RPF and hearing all of the DDs howl.

Oh rly? Try to play Hindenburg and Moskva or any tier X bbs without CE.

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3 minutes ago, The_first_harbinger said:

Oh rly? Try to play Hindenburg and Moskva or any tier X bbs without CE.

I 100% agree, but the counter would be that now no one has CE and thus everyone is spotted sooner. In the end, it leaves you in the same spot we're in now, just at longer range.

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Every ship can benefit from it but that's a huge difference from it being a must-have. 

 

It does limit build diversity though builds are already quite limited.  At this point I could understand an argument for removing CE and just applying the benefits to all ships.  If such a massive amount of players who have at least a 10pt captain default to CE why not?  The skill tree is in need of yet another overhaul, IMO.

 

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7 minutes ago, TabbyHopkins said:

I 100% agree, but the counter would be that now no one has CE and thus everyone is spotted sooner. In the end, it leaves you in the same spot we're in now, just at longer range.

eh, I would argue that an agile cruisers with trolly armor like Zao or cruisers with smoke would be less hurt than cruisers that have flat arcs, can't camp, and needs basic concealment badly.

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2 minutes ago, The_first_harbinger said:

eh, I would argue that an agile cruisers with trolly armor like Zao or cruisers with smoke would be less hurt than cruisers that have flat arcs, can't camp, and needs basic concealment badly.

I'd argue that the Zao or Minotaur would be greatly hurt because both currently have the ability to stealth torps.  Maximum stealth is one of the tools of both the Minotaur and Zao.  It's less so for kiting cruisers.

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10 minutes ago, Business6 said:

Every ship can benefit from it but that's a huge difference from it being a must-have. 

 

It does limit build diversity though builds are already quite limited.  At this point I could understand an argument for removing CE and just applying the benefits to all ships.  If such a massive amount of players who have at least a 10pt captain default to CE why not?  The skill tree is in need of yet another overhaul, IMO.

 

Yup.  Hoping we get one with the CV rework since they'll have to overhaul CV based skills and those that interact with them anyway.

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4 minutes ago, Crucis said:

I'd argue that the Zao or Minotaur would be greatly hurt because both currently have the ability to stealth torps.  Maximum stealth is one of the tools of both the Minotaur and Zao.  It's less so for kiting cruisers.

Err...Zao and Minotaur were never know for having stealth torps as their deadliest tool in the box...
Zao recieved her notoriety even before her 12km torpedoes appeared, when she was stuck with her 8km old underwater rockets.
Torps are not what makes Zao such a nuisance. The armor and the guns are.

I only played Meme-o-turd in space battles, but I can pretty confidently say that it is still meme worthy even without any torps at all.

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4 minutes ago, The_first_harbinger said:

Err...Zao and Minotaur were never know for having stealth torps as their deadliest tool in the box...
Zao recieved her notoriety even before her 12km torpedoes appeared, when she was stuck with her 8km old underwater rockets.
Torps are not what makes Zao such a nuisance. The armor and the guns are.

I only played Meme-o-turd in space battles, but I can pretty confidently say that it is still meme worthy even without any torps at all.

I have to disagree.  Yes, with the old 8km torps, that was true.  But with the 12 km torps, the Zao can be a stealth torping beast that should not be under-estimated. 

As for the Minotaur, if you haven't played her much, then you don't have a full appreciation for the fact that a Minotaur with 10km torps and a 8.9 km concealment range can also be a deadly stealth torper.  

Yes, both ships are better known for their guns.  But I think that it's a huge mistake to overlook their ability to stealth torp.

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See, before the USN cruiser split I would have said that about 95-99% of ships NEED CE. Now? Well the average destroyer certainly needs it. A lot of cruisers can benefit from it to be sure and so can battleships. Some carriers have ECKSBAWKS HUEG spotting distance that can make it pretty darn necessary, especially if they want to live dangerously and stay close to allies for AA cover and quicker squadron reaction times. So yeah, it's a very useful skill. At the same time though, my Cleveland can't hear you telling it that CE is necessary over all the damage it's doing with IFHE. I'd mark CE as an overrated skill in a lot of cases. Only slightly overrated and definitely a must have for at least as many ships, but overrated nonetheless.

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36 minutes ago, TabbyHopkins said:

I 100% agree, but the counter would be that now no one has CE and thus everyone is spotted sooner. In the end, it leaves you in the same spot we're in now, just at longer range.

That range makes a difference in survivability. Make the sample case the extreme opposite. CE now does some crazy modifier so that DDs are now spotting each other at minimum distance and BB/Cruisers at 5 or so km. How long would a Minotaur last when spotting range is now point blank?

It matters for dispersion, shell arcs on contact, lead times, penetration, map design, consumable range, secondaries, cap point size, almost every factor in this game what distance you get spotted at.

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Massachusetts doesn't need concealment

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