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RN Destroyer Preview

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Just a quick rundown of the ships and their history follow by a brief thought about the line.

 

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While I'm always up for a new line, and particularly a new DD line, I'm not sure what's going to be this DD line's defining trait.  10 km torps at tier 10 are definitely on the short ranged side.  And the 114mm guns, while amazingly fast firing, are bound to have floaty arcs and somewhat limited useful range.  And I pretty much expect that they'll require IFHE for much the same reason that the Akizuki with her 100mm guns does, unless the devs give those guns built-in IFHE.

We'll just have to see how things work out.

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I disagree that these DD's are similar to KM DD's. 

They share 1 characteristic - Hydro , and TBH the Hydro on the RN DD's is purely a defensive measure. Horrible ship spotting, so so torpedo spotting. 

Outside of that? 

- Does not have KM HP

- Does not have KM Torpedo reload

- Does not have KM AP shells

- Does not have KM gunnery velocity 

-Does not have KM speed. 

 

You state that that at higher tier they can be used for Destroyer pursuit.. However how are they supposed to pursue targets when they are effectively much slower then all their peers? 

You wanna fix that by slotting speed boost? Well you have to give up your bad hydro in order to do so. 

Now USN DD's ? Are they comparable? Yes they are.. However they are purely worse version at every single tier.

Outside of Fire chance on their guns and RPM on the upper 114mm. They don't have much compared to US DD's. 

- Worse velocity to the 5inch mk 38 

- Better fire chance  (yay) 

- Slightly better concealment at upper tiers (.1km is not much tbh) 

- Slightly better RPM ( but this is offset by the horrible velocity ) 

- Much worse torpedoes (This is a huge negative) 

- Worse AA ( No DF ) 

- Hydro is a slight positive, but really this is purely a defensive measure as offensively its very difficult to put in practice due to her low speed. 

- Bad speed vs USN DD's 

- Good HP 

- Is Daring less fat? (should be) this should help with BB AP (a slight positive atleast... ) 

 

 

What do these DD bring? Not very much, ATM these are crappy USN DD's with a crappy Hydro that can't hunt other DD's due to their speed . 

There isn't much to like here, its an inferior hybrid version of US DD's with a crappy hydro that won't help much at upper tiers ( Could be slightly better at lower tiers like haida) 

 

I would feel perfectly fine going up against a Daring in a Lo Yang. Thats how bad I feel these Destroyers are. 

 

 

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German DDs are still the masters of hydro. Their range is unmatched on any tier. The royal navy DDs are only tougher to crack and you have to stay out of their hydro range - at tier ten, that's no problem at all. Even on tier six, you have a 1km buffer. The RN DD smokes up, the german DD does not fire immediately and gets unspotted. He sneaks up slowly and spots the RN DD. Torpedos in first and then HE or AP en masse. Until the RN DD reacts, lots of HP will be gone.

however, brawling DDs are irrelevant in the current meta of four+ radars per side.

 

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They need to just make HE pen compeditive and remove IFHE as a skill. It makes the 152mm cruisers difficult to balance. Like if there was a skill for BBs that made AP do 30% more damage. 

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they don't look like pursuers/dd hunters, too slow. maybe fair cap contesters with hydro, and good(?) hp. They will have trouble escaping any determined cruisers too, with their low speed. Concealment doesn't help when caught in the headlights of radar and 35knot + cruisers. Something is missing, some info that WG is maybe retaining. Shell type for example? (will they have a special shell type as Brit CLs do?)

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1 hour ago, TF77 said:

It be nice if you can pan around more so we get a better view of the ships. In addition, it be nice if all RN DDs recieve the Haida/Perth Creeping smoke since these ships wont be getting speed boost. Also, it be nice if you can ask WG to give these ships their hydro at t3 since speed bost wont be available to them at those tiers; rendering them minaiture underarmed cruisers. Please and thank you.

Yours truly

Crokodone

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1 hour ago, Cobraclutch said:

You wanna fix that by slotting speed boost? Well you have to give up your bad hydro in order to do so.

They removed speed boost as an option.  Slow DDs with no speed boost, no thanks.  Also, the lower tier ships have really slow turret traverse (with floaty shells), and short range torps, I don't think they will even be competitive.

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don't worry

wargaming will give them the "royal navy treatment".

both previous royal navy lines were mediocre but balanced when they started development. Then, people complained, that they were not good enough and wg buffed them … and they did not stop buffing them.

both royal navy lines were major power creeps and the third kind will not be any different.

Shane that the haida will not be buffed together with their cousins.

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6 minutes ago, KaLeuWillenbrock said:

don't worry

wargaming will give them the "royal navy treatment".

both previous royal navy lines were mediocre but balanced when they started development. Then, people complained, that they were not good enough and wg buffed them … and they did not stop buffing them.

both royal navy lines were major power creeps and the third kind will not be any different.

Shane that the haida will not be buffed together with their cousins.

Haida doesn't need a buff.  Shes currently borderline OP for her tier, anything more she would be removed from sale for good ala nicola or Belfast. 

 

There is currently no tier 7 DD that can handle Haida. And most Tier 8 DD's struggle very very hard.  
 

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Just now, Cobraclutch said:

Haida doesn't need a buff.  Shes currently borderline OP for her tier, anything more she would be removed from sale for good ala nicola or Belfast. 

 

There is currently no tier 7 DD that can handle Haida. And most Tier 8 DD's struggle very very hard.  
 

haida OP?

sure … she is an anti-DD-DD. gadja, maass, Leningrad and z-39 can at least make her trade so much damage, that an encounter is not wanted by the haida.

at least on EU, there are few haidas around and mostly good to very good players play her. 

she is not op - she only has two things, that are good concealment and HE alpha. The rest is either mediocre, meh or bad. 

if you eat her torpedoes, you were not paying attention. If you get gunned down by her, you picked the wrong fight. If she burns you down, you managed your consumables wrong. If she catches you off guard in your smoke and hydro's you, you are an idiot.

plain and simple.

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8 minutes ago, Cobraclutch said:

Haida doesn't need a buff.  Shes currently borderline OP for her tier, anything more she would be removed from sale for good ala nicola or Belfast. 

 

There is currently no tier 7 DD that can handle Haida. And most Tier 8 DD's struggle very very hard.  
 

Did I hear gun down a Haida with a Kagero? Challenge accepted.

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3 minutes ago, KaLeuWillenbrock said:

don't worry

wargaming will give them the "royal navy treatment".

both previous royal navy lines were mediocre but balanced when they started development. Then, people complained, that they were not good enough and wg buffed them … and they did not stop buffing them.

both royal navy lines were major power creeps and the third kind will not be any different.

Shane that the haida will not be buffed together with their cousins.

Salty much?

The RN BB line development started with Conqueror having radar and 100m dispersion at 28km range. What we ended up with wasn't nice but wasn't OP, and was nerfed nonetheless. Lion is unremarkable. Monarch is bad. KGV is one dimensional. Queen Elizabeth is one of the worst performing T6 battleships, if not the worst. Cruisers wise Emerald is legendary in her awfulness. Leander and Fiji are great. Edinburgh is ok. Neptune is abysmal. Minotaur is ok but T10 is very competitive and she doesn't get much CB play for some reason (not buffed enough?).

Haida is different, probably over tiered, but balanced.

 

In general so far these ships look pretty poor to me, with some exceptions - Daring's 5.7km stealth for instance is good, but her other trades are poor. Far worse torpedoes than Gearing, 35kt vs. 38.9 with boost, requires IFHE to function.

Smaller guns are meant to be a disadvantage, but with the IJN gunboats getting 1/4 HE pen... ok. The mechanic was pretty silly in either case.

 

I'm generally glad about most of the selections, Icarus is a ship with a good history and choosing the I-class with the modern bridge design compared to Gallant was a good move and helps visually distinguish them. Similarly using Jervis, the leader of the JKN's was solid, and she has some little features too. Really Gadjah should get her historic lattice mast which would help further distinguish tripod-mast Jervis. Going with Acasta as the T5 was sensible - the Scharnhorst/Gneisenau connection, but the 'Interwar Standards' didn't change much so she's just a Gallant with soft stats set to '3'. Lightning is a good name choice IMO as well, strong name, short history - not many of the L&M class really stand out as they mostly completed later in the war.

Jutland's a good choice of name for the Battle class. The convention should be that she'd be Aisne - but who's heard of that? Daring had to be the T10 if they wanted a built one and it's a good name, good logo, good motto - Splendide Audax.

 

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6 minutes ago, KaLeuWillenbrock said:

conqueror not op.

 

i stopped reading right there.

Put Conq against a good Yamato player, and watch the 16 k salvos blap the Conq. Until that super heal comes in that is. But Conq isn’t OP. It is just stupidly easy to play and farm damage with.

Edited by Dictonary

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5 minutes ago, KaLeuWillenbrock said:

conqueror not op.

 

i stopped reading right there.

It isn't.  The only people who think it is are idiots who look at the damage numbers and nothing else.  Are you one of those idiots?

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I am long awaiting for them, but some of the actual British built DDs in game (HAida, Gallant) are difficult to get to and need a captain with a lot of points.

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37 minutes ago, Dictonary said:

Did I hear gun down a Haida with a Kagero? Challenge accepted.

Bring it ;) Ive eaten them alive for breakfast multiple times now, sure I can fit one more in my stomach :P 

No but seriously, this ship allows you to be competitive vs any DD in her tier range.. Sure you may not win every single fight. But as a skilled DD player, you can outplay almost any tier DD outside of a few exceptions (Z-46 & Z-32 can be problematic due to the hydro) 

42 minutes ago, KaLeuWillenbrock said:

haida OP?

sure … she is an anti-DD-DD. gadja, maass, Leningrad and z-39 can at least make her trade so much damage, that an encounter is not wanted by the haida.

at least on EU, there are few haidas around and mostly good to very good players play her. 

she is not op - she only has two things, that are good concealment and HE alpha. The rest is either mediocre, meh or bad. 

if you eat her torpedoes, you were not paying attention. If you get gunned down by her, you picked the wrong fight. If she burns you down, you managed your consumables wrong. If she catches you off guard in your smoke and hydro's you, you are an idiot.

plain and simple.

How do you pick the wrong fight when you effectively get outspotted by her ?  She can dictate any engagement with ease. 

I stand by what I said, her tier best DPM, creeping smoke, hydro, concealment and 3rd best tier HP make her the premier DD hunter at Tier 7. 

I play her aggressive and currently rock a 60% + w/r in her over 26 GP,  the frontal gun layout allows you to minimize your profile to extreme levels while maintaining 75% of your gun power, something only the GM can do at tier 7. 

You can keep thinking Haida is weak or mehboat. And I'll just keep on rolling and melting faces while I 420blazeit around caps blowing up Destroyers with my maple syrup laced HE shells. 

Speed is good

HP is great

DPM is god tier 

Concealment is god tier 

AA is bad

Torps are meh 

Maneuvering is Meh 

I'll gladly take the first 4  over the last 3.

 

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23 minutes ago, Helstrem said:

It isn't.  The only people who think it is are idiots who look at the damage numbers and nothing else.  Are you one of those idiots?

No. 

i look at its concealment and the capabilities to choose who to fight. A conqueror is a yamatos worst nightmare, because the raw HE damage counters the yamatos biggest strong point - the ability to overmatch bows.

concealment, zombie-heal (rightfully nerfed) insane HE alpha, can be played like a flanking cruiser, high fire chance. it outspots every other DD and even a lot of cruisers. If the conqueror is played more like a cruiser, the BB is in serious trouble.

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Just now, KaLeuWillenbrock said:

No. 

i look at its concealment and the capabilities to choose who to fight. A conqueror is a yamatos worst nightmare, because the raw HE damage counters the yamatos biggest strong point - the ability to overmatch bows.

concealment, zombie-heal (rightfully nerfed) insane HE alpha, can be played like a flanking cruiser, high fire chance. it outspots every other DD and even a lot of cruisers. If the conqueror is played more like a cruiser, the BB is in serious trouble.

And yet it has the lowest win rate of Tier X BBs.  Why do you think that is?

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2 minutes ago, Cobraclutch said:

Bring it ;) Ive eaten them alive for breakfast multiple times now, sure I can fit one more in my stomach :P 

No but seriously, this ship allows you to be competitive vs any DD in her tier range.. Sure you may not win every single fight. But as a skilled DD player, you can outplay almost any tier DD outside of a few exceptions (Z-46 & Z-32 can be problematic due to the hydro) 

How do you pick the wrong fight when you effectively get outspotted by her ?  She can dictate any engagement with ease. 

I stand by what I said, her tier best DPM, creeping smoke, hydro, concealment and 3rd best tier HP make her the premier DD hunter at Tier 7. 

I play her aggressive and currently rock a 60% + w/r in her over 26 GP,  the frontal gun layout allows you to minimize your profile to extreme levels while maintaining 75% of your gun power, something only the GM can do at tier 7. 

You can keep thinking Haida is weak or mehboat. And I'll just keep on rolling and melting faces while I 420blazeit around caps blowing up Destroyers with my maple syrup laced HE shells. 

Speed is good

HP is great

DPM is god tier 

Concealment is god tier 

AA is bad

Torps are meh 

Maneuvering is Meh 

I'll gladly take the first 4  over the last 3.

 

you pick the wrong fight, because you charged into the enemy without knowing where the haida is.

if you are an IJN DD you have to play it a bit more on the safe side. How do you play with radar around? Do you charge into the cap or do you play a bit more passive? I would go for passive. 

the haida turns like a brick and she is relatively slow. Once she is spotted, she eats damage like a german DD. 

her theoretical HE dmp is great but you can't use the aft turret without showing broadside or losing distance. That reduces jer practical dpm by 1/3.

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1 hour ago, Crokodone said:

It be nice if you can pan around more so we get a better view of the ships. In addition, it be nice if all RN DDs recieve the Haida/Perth Creeping smoke since these ships wont be getting speed boost. Also, it be nice if you can ask WG to give these ships their hydro at t3 since speed bost wont be available to them at those tiers; rendering them minaiture underarmed cruisers. Please and thank you.

Yours truly

Crokodone

I have Haida and I detest that creeping smoke. If your DD needs to pop smoke to escape and reposition that creeping smoke will not allow you to do that. There's a smoke cloud following you around which shows the Reds where you are and where you're going. It advertises the DD's position, something that no sane DDriver wants. IMHO, it's a bad idea equipping DDs with creeping smoke. I'd prefer that Perth and HungHe didn't have it either, just regular RN type smoke.

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1 hour ago, mofton said:

 

Jutland's a good choice of name for the Battle class. The convention should be that she'd be Aisne - but who's heard of that?

Or Dunkirk. I'd probably take Dunkirk over Jutland, if WG actually made the T9 DD historical. Jutland doesn't inspire that much to me, considering I'd rather have the ships that fought at Jutland.

(Laid down or commissioned first would hopefully be what is chosen, a la the rest of the line except Acasta. Given the choice of Aisne or Dunkirk, I think Dunkirk takes it for most.).

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