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Sinboto

Minekaze sucks

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I've never been in a ship I've at the very least didn't come to like after grinding her through, even past izumo, but I really don't like this thing. 

Kamikaze for life. :cap_like:

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Its got good stealth  but the torps are so slow,  I play it mainly coop and a rare occasion in random.

I did not own back in its glory days but I believe it was a monster sadly its a shadow of its former self.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, tm63au said:

Its got good stealth  but the torps are so slow,  I play it mainly coop and a rare occasion in random.

I did not own back in its glory days but I believe it was a monster sadly its a shadow of its former self.

 

 

The Kamikaze R I have is more or less what she was before in other words: better 

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The Minekaze is little different from what she was previously.  Sure, torps are a bit slower but the ship is still a beast.  

 

To compensate for the slower torps the Minekaze has a faster reload by 5 seconds (which is more than 10% faster).

 

The Minekaze is also more nimble, sporting a 2.1 rudder shift as compared to the Kamikaze/Fujin 2.9.

 

The Minekaze is an excellent ship.  Played to her strengths she is quite the handful to deal with.  I would not say she is inferior to the Kamikaze or the Fujin.  That would be unjust.

 

Sab

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46 minutes ago, Sinboto said:

The Kamikaze R I have is more or less what she was before in other words: better 

Minekaze also used to have 10km torps and was a monster at T5.

Now she just lives in the shadow of the OP Kamikaze/Kamikaze R/Fujin triplets, a shell of her former self.

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51 minutes ago, Sabene said:

The Minekaze is an excellent ship.  Played to her strengths she is quite the handful to deal with.  I would not say she is inferior to the Kamikaze or the Fujin.  That would be unjust.

The ship stats show Minekaze is nowhere near as good as the Kamikaze sisters. At one point is was as good or better with its higher speed but those days are long gone. It isn't the worst Tier 5 DD but the nerfs did drop it into mediocrity. There is also a lot more competition for best T5 DD with more lines and power creep. The just-as-stealthy abomination Okhotnik didn't exist during Minekazes glory days.

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The Okho is a log waiting to be torped.  Easily seen and unable to get out of the way.  Taking a Minekaze up against an Okho just isn't fair to the Okho.

55 minutes ago, Sabot_100 said:

The ship stats show Minekaze is nowhere near as good as the Kamikaze sisters.

To what ship  stats are you referring?  Sure, Kami has a wee bit more health.  And torps do hit harder.  But Aa is a non issue.  Artillery should not be an issue.

I am not saying the Minekaze is BETTER than the Kamikaze or Fujin.  I just disagree with OP that the Minekaze is a poor ship.  It is not.  It is darn dangerous.  It has its strengths.

If OP is having issues with the Minekaze it is not the ship....it is the driver.

Sab

Edited by Sabene

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1 hour ago, Sabene said:

To what ship  stats are you referring?  Sure, Kami has a wee bit more health.  And torps do hit harder.  But Aa is a non issue.  Artillery should not be an issue.

I am not saying the Minekaze is BETTER than the Kamikaze or Fujin. 

You seemed to claim that the Minekaze was as good as (not inferior) the Kamikaze sisters. I believe it is decidedly inferior as the Kamis are top performers for their tier and the Minekaze is a middle of the pack performer at best. Most T5 DDs are inferior to the Kamis (based on the stats, your results may vary). Just remembering fondly the good old days when the Minekaze was as good the Kamis and how much it has fallen.

It still should be possible to do well in a Minekaze if you play to its strengths. I assume the OP isn't playing to those strengths/isn't clicking with the stealth torpedo boat playstyle. It isn't for everybody.

As a side note, I liked playing the post-nerf Minekaze better than the Mutsuki but actually did better in the Muts. Don't play either anymore, I have a Fujin.

Edited by Sabot_100

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2 hours ago, Sabene said:

The Okho is a log waiting to be torped.  Easily seen and unable to get out of the way.  Taking a Minekaze up against an Okho just isn't fair to the Okho.

To what ship  stats are you referring?  Sure, Kami has a wee bit more health.  And torps do hit harder.  But Aa is a non issue.  Artillery should not be an issue.

I am not saying the Minekaze is BETTER than the Kamikaze or Fujin.  I just disagree with OP that the Minekaze is a poor ship.  It is not.  It is darn dangerous.  It has its strengths.

If OP is having issues with the Minekaze it is not the ship....it is the driver.

Sab

I've done well with torpedo destroyers in the past, I've also had horrible matches where I've died without hitting a single torp. 

You have your opinions as I have mine, though I'd prefer you didn't make passive aggressive insults that's the internet for you. 

I do think the Minekaze is poor for a few reasons, compared to her same tier DD counterparts IJN or otherwise, that hasn't changed. 

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I'm actually of the opinion that the modern Mutsuki is better than the Minekaze.  Which is a complete reversal of the way things used to be.

It's a bit weird, because it all boils down to the torps, since everything is pretty much a wash in terms of all other stats.

I think it has to do with these issues:

  1. The Kami and Mutsuki have 40% more damage from the torps that hit. You'd be surprised how often that matters a BIG DEAL. There's a whole lot of stuff that requires 2 hits from a Minekaze's torps to finish, where a single Kami/Mutsu torp kills.
  2. As a function of #1, you have to land more torps with the Minekaze.  That's not easy to do. You're certainly NOT landing 40% more to make up the difference in damage.
  3. All three have different reaction times:  Minekaze has the slowest torps, but the stealthiest, while Kami has the middle of highest speed and slightly worse stealth, and Mutsu has the middle speed but worst stealth.  Consequently, the Kami has the least reaction time for opponents for all of them, and the Mutsu/Mine are pretty much even.
  4. The higher speed of the Mutsu/Kami torpedoes (57 vs 63 vs 68) really, really makes a different in time-to-target.  TTT is a huge deal, because long TTT gives plenty of opportunity to spot the torps far away from their target, and it gives the target much less time to make one of those unplanned course changes (causing a miss).   Kami torps are 20% faster than the Minekaze. That's HUGE.   Even the Mutsu's are 10% faster.
  5. Reload time on the Kami and Minekaze are essentially equal.  Mustu's is about 66% worse (courtesy of the triple vs double launcher). Whether you like the 3x or 2x launcher is up to you and your playstyle.
  6. The Mutsu has the extra 1km of torpedo range, vs its cousins. When you're playing on T7 maps, that makes an enormously large difference. For T4or T5 battles, it's pretty irrelevant, and for T6, it's a modest advantage, if that.

The torpedoes on the Kami are VASTLY superior to that of the Minekaze, in practical use - far faster time-to-target, much harder hitting, and equal or less  reaction time. I happen to like the extra 1km on the Mutsu's torps, because it lends itself to far more tactical flexibility - if you don't have CE (and many T5 players aren't going to yet have a 10-point captain), the 0.8km stealth torp window on the Minekaze is not sufficient to avoid getting regularly spotted.  The Minekaze's ability to shove out torps quickly is much less useful when you can't score many more hits with them (I tend to average 1 more torp hit/game in the Mine vs Mutsu), and you have to risk your boat's life every time just to make a torp run, and the per-hit damage is noticeably less.

 

Much of the ship stat dominance of the Kami over the Mutsu/Minekaze has to do with the type of player:  Kamis have people with almost 3 years of experience driving them, and pretty much all of them have a bare minimum of a 15 point captain on them (and most I'd bet have  a 19-pointer).  Both of those combine to providing a massive advantage.

For instance, I'm releveling my Minekaze now (this is a respin account).  I have an 8-point captain on it.  I fought 3 battles yesterday against a Kami or Fujin. I'm actually a VERY good IJN player, and the Kami/Fujin totally owned my [edited]every single game. There was simply nothing I could do - no strategy, no trick, nothing that I could do to avoid being spotted and stealth torped by the Kami. It was like a Ali-Foreman fight where Foreman had a broken arm and amputated leg.  Not fun or funny in the least.

 

The reality is, that both the Mine and Mutsu, like pretty much all of the IJN DD line, need a lot of buffs to get them back into real competitive status.  The Kami's torps are what most IJN torps really should look like:  hard-hitting (though maybe lower damage than some of the T7+ ones come with), with lower detection and faster speeds.  Honestly, I think all IJN torps on tech-tree ships should get a 10% buff to concealment, a +5 knot speed boost, and a 15% damage REDUCTION.  That would let them land more torps, more reliably, while avoiding overwhelming opponents with huge damage each hit.

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2 hours ago, Sinboto said:

You have your opinions as I have mine, though I'd prefer you didn't make passive aggressive insults that's the internet for you. 

Sinboto, you started this thread by saying the Minekaze "sucks".  It does not, in my opinion.  It has its differences from Kami/Fujin but it decidedly does not "suck".

I stated that if you were having such issues then you should not berate the ship but look at yourself and how you drive the ship.  If you want to call that passive aggressive then you may but I assure you it is pretty straight language.  The ship is fine.  How you operate it is the question.

 

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2 hours ago, Sabene said:

Sinboto, you started this thread by saying the Minekaze "sucks".  It does not, in my opinion.  It has its differences from Kami/Fujin but it decidedly does not "suck".

I stated that if you were having such issues then you should not berate the ship but look at yourself and how you drive the ship.  If you want to call that passive aggressive then you may but I assure you it is pretty straight language.  The ship is fine.  How you operate it is the question.

 

No, it does not. The problem with Minekaze is that she is in the gunboat line, but remains mostly a torper, with no real gun power to speak of.

 

T-22, on the other hand, is the bad one at Tier V, and that has to do with the fact that she, too, is supposed to be a Hybrid gunboat/torpedoboat, but has utterly useless guns, terrible concealment and only okay torps. She's also large/easy to hit.  She has all of the weaknesses of the torpedoboats before her in the line, and all of the weaknesses of the Hybrids after her in the line, but none of their strengths. Even her torpedo reload is decidedly unimpressive.

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