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Komrade_Rylo

Massachusetts with vs without manual secondaries

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So after 74 battles with Massachusetts I have come to the conclusion that manual secondaries+IFHE+AFT is the best build period for Massachusetts. The buff to the accuracy is far more useful than having both sides able to shoot from my experience. With manual secondaries you have damage potential close to a t10 bb while being a t8 bb when within your secondary range and it's far superior to having secondaries occasionally hit on both sides of the ship. 

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Yup.  Its that way with every ship that benefits from it,  the buff to accuracy is just too good to pass up.  I suggest manual secondaries before IFHE as well,  I took IFHE on my Alsace then respecced to manual secondaries just to see and while the shots that DO hit with IFHE hit harder,  they are so inaccurate that it's just not worth the time.

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1 minute ago, Palladia said:

Yup.  Its that way with every ship that benefits from it,  the buff to accuracy is just too good to pass up.  I suggest manual secondaries before IFHE as well,  I took IFHE on my Alsace then respecced to manual secondaries just to see and while the shots that DO hit with IFHE hit harder,  they are so inaccurate that it's just not worth the time.

 

I boosted halsey to a 19 pointer since this ship gets double strikes and confederate so often

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1 minute ago, Humility925 said:

What is IFHE? AFT?

Inertia fuse for high explosive shells, increases the penetration of HE rounds by 30% but decreases fire chance.  Advanced Firing Training,  increases the range on secondaries and AA by 20%.  

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2 minutes ago, Palladia said:

Inertia fuse for high explosive shells, increases the penetration of HE rounds by 30% but decreases fire chance.  Advanced Firing Training,  increases the range on secondaries and AA by 20%.  

They are commander skills.

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Ok, thank you, but I am not sure gave up fire chance is worth it,

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Just now, Humility925 said:

Ok, thank you, but I am not sure gave up fire chance is worth it,

 

it's worth it and fire flags counteract losing 1% fire chance on your secondaries

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3 minutes ago, Humility925 said:

Ok, thank you, but I am not sure gave up fire chance is worth it,

Oh it is absolutely worth it.  It makes your hit rating go from around ten percent to between twenty and thirty percent.  The doubled number of hits more than makes up for the loss of 1% fire chance.

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4 minutes ago, Palladia said:

Oh it is absolutely worth it.  It makes your hit rating go from around ten percent to between twenty and thirty percent.  The doubled number of hits more than makes up for the loss of 1% fire chance.

IFHE doesn't affect your hit rate....

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Just now, Komrade_Rylo said:

IFHE doesn't affect your hit rate....

Ehehehe,  sorry,  I got like two hours of sleep last night.  I meant to say that the 30% increased penetration more than makes up for the loss of 1% fire chance.  It lets you deal reliable damage to CA's and BB's.

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25 minutes ago, Humility925 said:

Ok, thank you, but I am not sure gave up fire chance is worth it,

You only lose 1% fire chance in exchange for being able to penetrate 27mm of armor instead of only penetrating 20mm. There is a pile of armor that the Massachusetts sees that is 25mm and is not able to be penetrated without IFHE. Guaranteed damage instead of a small rng roll for endable, easily repaired damage is hugely advantageous

Edited by Ducky_shot

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29 minutes ago, Humility925 said:

Ok, thank you, but I am not sure gave up fire chance is worth it,

Fire damage is negligible.  I actually did a data collection experiment s couple weeks ago to determine the best build for Massachusetts.  The OP is correct.

One side discovery I made is that secondary fires are generally worth only about a couple thousand damage each, and in average you only get a couple fires per game.   Fire damage is not worth worrying about.

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17 minutes ago, TheDreadnought said:

Fire damage is negligible.  I actually did a data collection experiment s couple weeks ago to determine the best build for Massachusetts.  The OP is correct.

One side discovery I made is that secondary fires are generally worth only about a couple thousand damage each, and in average you only get a couple fires per game.   Fire damage is not worth worrying about.

a couple hits with ifhe on 25 mm armor in the time the fire would likely last more than outweighs the fire damage. Plus you still have some fire chance regardless

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To add onto this,  you start seeing ships that those secondaries can't easily penetrate without additional help around T8 and up as well.  My Bismarck got 120 hits in on a broadside Saint-Loius last night for a whopping 2700 damage.  No IFHE.  

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No CE on a BB...yeah, no. Just learn to shoot and stop trying to make secondaries a thing. They're secondary for a reason.

Edited by awildseaking
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3 minutes ago, awildseaking said:

No CE on a BB...yeah, no. Just learn to shoot and stop trying to make secondaries a thing. They're secondary for a reason.

 

Dank memes secondaries

 

5b4ed03d1e666_Screenshot_20180718-0127472.thumb.png.ddf562ffbf4afe157356835a4d7d9277.png

 

No dank secondaries

 

5b4ed04331ba4_Screenshot_20180718-0127342.thumb.png.4f8c9a9b006b43f8afdc1461defb1b81.png

 

 

 

6YToyEF.thumb.png.5ac5b1b2b712ec7824c78fb42574b1c7.png

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20 minutes ago, Komrade_Rylo said:

 

Dank memes secondaries

 

5b4ed03d1e666_Screenshot_20180718-0127472.thumb.png.ddf562ffbf4afe157356835a4d7d9277.png

 

No dank secondaries

 

5b4ed04331ba4_Screenshot_20180718-0127342.thumb.png.4f8c9a9b006b43f8afdc1461defb1b81.png

 

 

 

6YToyEF.thumb.png.5ac5b1b2b712ec7824c78fb42574b1c7.png

He's stuck in that min/max mindset where you HAVE to have certain skills.  Don't worry about it.

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Very similar to mine except I take Concealment over Inertial. Do you find getting into range to do secondary battles difficult without Concealment? Since Mass does have an incredibly small 1km or so buffer between detection and secondary range with it.

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28 minutes ago, Battleship_lowa said:

Very similar to mine except I take Concealment over Inertial. Do you find getting into range to do secondary battles difficult without Concealment? Since Mass does have an incredibly small 1km or so buffer between detection and secondary range with it.

 

I just yolo into the enemy, tank 2 million potential, then win

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4 hours ago, Komrade_Rylo said:

 

Dank memes secondaries

 

5b4ed03d1e666_Screenshot_20180718-0127472.thumb.png.ddf562ffbf4afe157356835a4d7d9277.png

 

No dank secondaries

 

5b4ed04331ba4_Screenshot_20180718-0127342.thumb.png.4f8c9a9b006b43f8afdc1461defb1b81.png

 

 

 

6YToyEF.thumb.png.5ac5b1b2b712ec7824c78fb42574b1c7.png

That's not good, they might going nerf this awesome ship if they see this. I certainly don't want they nerf and make ship no longer good. Hidden from them.

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On the topic of Mass secondaries, but different:

Not calling foul, or nerf, or anything but...it seems that the secondaries are firing slower. I took Mass into coop last night to test the diffs with MFCFS and replacing SGM2 with DC2. I was sailing next to an Alabama and I got the distinct impression the secondaries on that 'bama were firing faster than mine. Running BFT+AFT+MFCSA on my Mass. Admittedly, I hadent played her for several days, but it seemed the guns fired slowly and it took longer for them to engage AFTER i took MFCSA . I suppose it could be the lack of sleep or a connection issue but again, I got the distinct impression that 'bama was out-secondary-ing me. I fully realize I could totally be out to lunch here.

Thoughts?

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6 hours ago, awildseaking said:

No CE on a BB...yeah, no. Just learn to shoot and stop trying to make secondaries a thing. They're secondary for a reason.

Running Massachusetts without all three Tier 4 secondary skills?

No.

FYI - CE is only useful to a battleship that engages from medium to long range and spends time not shooting, like NC.

It’s a complete waste of 4 skill points on a secondary focused brawler.

But hey... when you get Massachusetts (because you obviously don’t have one now) PLEASE take CE instead.  

We need some people to suck with this ship so it doesn’t get stealth nerfed for the rest of us.

Thanks!

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8 hours ago, TheDreadnought said:

Running Massachusetts without all three Tier 4 secondary skills?

No.

FYI - CE is only useful to a battleship that engages from medium to long range and spends time not shooting, like NC.

It’s a complete waste of 4 skill points on a secondary focused brawler.

But hey... when you get Massachusetts (because you obviously don’t have one now) PLEASE take CE instead.  

We need some people to suck with this ship so it doesn’t get stealth nerfed for the rest of us.

Thanks!

CE/FP/BoS is useful on any ship that doesn't want to get fire spammed to death, push, or kite, ie the three most important things you need to worry about with any BB (or most ships for that matter). But go ahead, tell me about that 20k secondary damage you did that a BB healed off because it came from fires.

Just like the idiots who play high tier KM BB (double idiots who secondary spec), getting spotted from the moon means you'll never get close enough to use those fabled secondaries. No CE means 14.5km conceal for the Mass. Go ahead and make that work against a team with half a brain when you're getting HE spammed from 20km out and can't disengage.

You might want to git gud before you start telling others how to play.

15 hours ago, Komrade_Rylo said:

Dank memes secondaries

 

5b4ed03d1e666_Screenshot_20180718-0127472.thumb.png.ddf562ffbf4afe157356835a4d7d9277.png

 

No dank secondaries

 

5b4ed04331ba4_Screenshot_20180718-0127342.thumb.png.4f8c9a9b006b43f8afdc1461defb1b81.png

Huh, it's almost like...new ships that are played by fewer people...do better...really boggles my noggin! I guess NCal is a piece of crap now since it's one of the worst performing T8 BB! Monarch and Roma OP, pls nerf WG bigger numbers means meta changed.

Also, lmbo at 29% solo. Afraid that you won't look so tough on your own? It's almost like...3 ship unicum divs...make any piece of craplook good. Fun fact: when you stop comparing apples to oranges, your Bama and Mass stats are basically the same. Go play a few hundred more under the same circumstances and get back to me then.

Edited by awildseaking
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5 hours ago, awildseaking said:

CE/FP/BoS is useful on any ship that doesn't want to get fire spammed to death, push, or kite, ie the three most important things you need to worry about with any BB (or most ships for that matter). But go ahead, tell me about that 20k secondary damage you did that a BB healed off because it came from fires.

Just like the idiots who play high tier KM BB (double idiots who secondary spec), getting spotted from the moon means you'll never get close enough to use those fabled secondaries. No CE means 14.5km conceal for the Mass. Go ahead and make that work against a team with half a brain when you're getting HE spammed from 20km out and can't disengage.

You might want to git gud before you start telling others how to play.

Huh, it's almost like...new ships that are played by fewer people...do better...really boggles my noggin! I guess NCal is a piece of crap now since it's one of the worst performing T8 BB! Monarch and Roma OP, pls nerf WG bigger numbers means meta changed.

Also, lmbo at 29% solo. Afraid that you won't look so tough on your own? It's almost like...3 ship unicum divs...make any piece of craplook good. Fun fact: when you stop comparing apples to oranges, your Bama and Mass stats are basically the same. Go play a few hundred more under the same circumstances and get back to me then.

If anyone here needs to “git gud” it’s you.

 

Spoiler

image.png

That's my record with Massachusetts. . . . entirely solo.  64% W/R with 90k average damage.

That's better than your solo record with any battleship you own. . .  of any tier. . . .  that has at least 25 battles in it.

Your Missouri (a tier higher) does 2k more average damage. . . but is TWELVE POINTS lower on win rate.  That means you just hide and farm damage in your Missouri to the detriment of your team.  Meanwhile, I'm a tier lower, at the front of the battle line, doing about the same damage, and winning.

In short. . . if you're not being carried by your division mates. . .you suck.

You clearly have no idea what your are talking about when it comes to battleship play, so pipe down and listen to your betters.

I'll point out that you brought up stats, not me.   Do your homework before you open your mouth next time.

Finally, quit blathering stupidities about fire spam and CE.  Clearly one of us knows how to play against fire spammers and one of us does not.  Try not to blow a gasket thinking about it.

Fyi - 40% of that 90k average damage I am doing comes from secondary shell damage.   Another 10% comes from secondary fires.   If you knew the first thing about secondary focused battleships you’d know that secondary fires are negligible and not worth worrying about.

But I know you won’t listen.   You’ll just keep bleating out wrong information that “you heard from someone” but have no actual experience with....like a retarded sheep.

 

 

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