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Aeries1

DD XP....Seriously?

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So just had a decent Fletch game for a win.  There have been multiple threads about the lack of XP for DDs here recently doing what DDs do.  Here is another.  So if I hadn't had premium negative cash huh.

I'm sorry, but in this rediculous radar heavy meta that is all DD players get for that?  I think average damage for Fletch is about 40k.

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You didn't get any caps, or defend, which is where a lot of DD XP comes from. You also did most of your damage to ships at and bellow your Tier.

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Yep, the xp comes from hitting ships at your own tier or above … you were the high tier ship and kinda below average for what that team did xp-wise.

I know caps and spotting should help normally

Edited by Commander_367

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3 minutes ago, Madwolf05 said:

You didn't get any caps, or defend, which is where a lot of DD XP comes from. You also did most of your damage to ships at and bellow your Tier.

Other threads on this topic have proven that cap XP for DDs is garbage.  It doesn't even make a dent.  I can link if you would like.

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And yes I am fully aware after over 3 years how XP is awarded vs same tier/lower tier/upper tier ships.

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9 minutes ago, Aeries1 said:

So just had a decent Fletch game for a win.  There have been multiple threads about the lack of XP for DDs here recently doing what DDs do.  Here is another.  So if I hadn't had premium negative cash huh.

I'm sorry, but in this rediculous radar heavy meta that is all DD players get for that?  I think average damage for Fletch is about 40k.

Well XP and credits are based on % damage, tier, and other activities. No caps means lower xp and credits. Your damage was done to tier 8 BB’s meaning you got very little meaningful reward wise damage. If you would’ve done full damage and destroyed the Tashkent, you would’ve gained more XP and credits than you did for probably the KGV and Tirpitz together.

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He did about 50% damage to a pair of lower tier BB's and then did some trivial damage to two other ships.  He got no caps but did have 39k spotting damage.  He also didn't get sunk and his team won the game.  That probably should be enough to at least not lose credits even without a premium account.

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1 minute ago, Aeries1 said:

And yes I am fully aware after over 3 years how XP is awarded vs same tier/lower tier/upper tier ships.

So you understand why you were so low this game?

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Just now, Belyy_Klyk said:

So you understand why you were so low this game?

No, I understand how it works.  I could care less on the tier [edited], but doing that and helping win for the team and that's it is a slap into the face for anyone playing DDs.

This isn't some here is my best wth game.  Have great games, some not so great, but on a model built on damage done, and we all know it is, this is a shi..how for DD players.

Why even bother in this meta then?  Not that I am some sole DD player, I will play whatever, but why should anyone bother at this point with DDs?  Average damage is a whopping 36k for Fletch..

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11 minutes ago, Aeries1 said:

And yes I am fully aware after over 3 years how XP is awarded vs same tier/lower tier/upper tier ships.

So you know and now confirm that DDs get all the grief and are constantly badgered by ungrateful team mates for very little reward or recognition.

(Throw in radar and you can see why a lot of good DD players have moved on to other classes, at least temporarily)

You are the superhero that must suffer the slings and arrows of the ungrateful masses that you, and you alone must defend while living behind a mask of anonymity :)

Edited by Commander_367
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Sorry OP while you did decent damage to below tier ships all your team play metrics were low to none. It would have been much more if those stats were higher.

Also, it looks like you had already used your 1st win bonus before this battle so that's another reason your total XP was lower.

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4 minutes ago, Aeries1 said:

No, I understand how it works.  I could care less on the tier [edited], but doing that and helping win for the team and that's it is a slap into the face for anyone playing DDs.

This isn't some here is my best wth game.  Have great games, some not so great, but on a model built on damage done, and we all know it is, this is a shi..how for DD players.

Why even bother in this meta then?  Not that I am some sole DD player, I will play whatever, but why should anyone bother at this point with DDs?  Average damage is a whopping 36k for Fletch..

I’ve had a game where I came in first on my team as a Kidd with only 45k damage in a tier 10 heavy game... I hunted the DD’s and capped. The XP isn’t based on damage dealt. It is based on % damage dealt. A Yamato could deal 250k damage and end up with less XP than a tier 8 DD with 50k. It really depends on what you target.

And while capping and spitting don’t give large amounts of XP, you’d be amazed what a solid 50k spotting and a few caps can do.

Edited by Belyy_Klyk

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Christ I know how damage dealt percentage works.  If this game had been in a CA or BB would have been in the top 3 guaranteed.  I don't post much, but I am tired of sitting back silent on topics of what is legiitemately wrong with this game.  DDs are the most high risk/high reward ship in the game and whether I or anyone else is playing them well they should be rewarded for their effort, especially right now in this meta.

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Yamato averages 1660 XP.  It is a T10 ships so a lot of its damage will be against lower tier ships and yet it averages great XP.  If a Fletcher gets almost 300% of the server's average damage and gets way less XP then maybe the systems isn't working all that great. 

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23 minutes ago, Aeries1 said:

Christ I know how damage dealt percentage works.  If this game had been in a CA or BB would have been in the top 3 guaranteed.  I don't post much, but I am tired of sitting back silent on topics of what is legiitemately wrong with this game.  DDs are the most high risk/high reward ship in the game and whether I or anyone else is playing them well they should be rewarded for their effort, especially right now in this meta.

What effort? You didn't even manage to cap or defend a single point. All you did was damage farm on 2 battleships.

You only even hit an enemy destroyer once!

The reason you got so little XP was because XP is based on % damage done to an enemy ship. BBs are good for farming big damage numbers, but are terrible if you want XP.

Edited by Cruiser_StLouis
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At least you didn’t get performance like that in something like a Taiho, CV rewards are worse than DD rewards...

I have been 3rd or 2nd after doing almost twice that much in Hindy and Roon, with a DD at the top, why, because of aggressive DD hunting and cap contesting, with spotting mixed in. 

If you truly understand damage mechanics, then you should understand why you got poorly rewarded (you did what amounted to about 155% damage and some change to lower tier ships). Servicing cost is identical for all ships at that tier IIRC, so taking no caps, doing little spotting damage (this mechanic is frustrating/underpowered, but fair), and taking virtually no potential damage doesn’t net you lots of credits. 

EDIT: IIRC, spotting damage is only given if you are the only ship able to see the enemy ship (if they hadn’t fired?), I have gotten the same position on the scoreboard for triple the spotting damage due to damage mostly on lower tier BBs in CVs and Leningrad alike. 

An attitude of improvement helps too, when I used to think the system was biased or my luck bad, I didn’t improve much, when I had the attitude that all defeats were my fault, at least partially, I improved dramatically (even if I that wasn’t the case, but that isn’t important).

Edited by GabeTheDespot
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9 minutes ago, Cruiser_StLouis said:

What effort? You didn't even manage to cap or defend a single point. All you did was damage farm on 2 battleships.

You only even hit an enemy destroyer once!

The reason you got so little XP was because XP is based on % damage done to an enemy ship. BBs are good for farming big damage numbers, but are terrible if you want XP.

Bingo!

I'm hard pressed to believe that caps don't matter much for XP.  Regardless, CA_StLouis, you're spot on about XP and enemy DDs.  The best way to earn good XP in a DD is capping, spotting, and engaging enemy DDs.  Hell, engaging enemy DDs is great for cruisers as well.  I was just in a tier 10 battle in my Cleveland, and ended up 2nd on the team in base XP, despite only doing 71k damage + 2 kills.  Why?  Because 27k of my 71k damage was to 2 enemy DDs that I killed, a Z-23 and a Shimmy.  The shimmy fired all of his torps at me at shortish range and I evaded them all, mostly due to dumb luck, because he'd fired them at me when I was static, but I'd started moving before I saw the torps and was easily able to avoid them.  And because we were up near the A10 corner on the Atlantic map, he was boxed in, so I radared him at about 7 km and proceeded to massacre him.  And the Z-23 wasn't much different.  

Anyways, the lesson is that doing heavy damage to enemy DDs is great for the XP, because each HP of damage represents a lot greater percentage of their overall HP total.

 

41 minutes ago, Aeries1 said:

Christ I know how damage dealt percentage works.  If this game had been in a CA or BB would have been in the top 3 guaranteed.  I don't post much, but I am tired of sitting back silent on topics of what is legitimately wrong with this game.  DDs are the most high risk/high reward ship in the game and whether I or anyone else is playing them well they should be rewarded for their effort, especially right now in this meta.

If you know how the damage dealt percentage thing works, why aren't you hunting enemy DDs when you're in an excellent counter-DD destroyer?  Arguably, in a DD, this is one of the benefits of contending for caps.  You know that's usually where you'll find most DDs, other than the hardcore Russian gunboats.

But if you spend your entire battle hunting the big game and not capping or engaging in counter DD work, it's a much harder up hill climb to earn great XP.  It's not really the job of most DDs to be massive general damage dealers.  That's what cruisers and battleships do.  The DDs' job is a little different.

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Capping gives next to no xp. Spotting gives exactly zero xp.

Wargaming refuses to say whether this is as intended or a bug.

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You're in a Tier 9 and a majority of your damage is against lower tiers.

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33 minutes ago, J30_Reinhardt said:

You're in a Tier 9 and a majority of your damage is against lower tiers.

But the example of Yamato brought up a few posts ago...

 

1 hour ago, Slimeball91 said:

Yamato averages 1660 XP.  It is a T10 ships so a lot of its damage will be against lower tier ships and yet it averages great XP.  If a Fletcher gets almost 300% of the server's average damage and gets way less XP then maybe the systems isn't working all that great. 

...invalidates your argument, J30_Reinhardt.

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2 hours ago, Aeries1 said:

Other threads on this topic have proven that cap XP for DDs is garbage.  It doesn't even make a dent.  I can link if you would like.

Sorry, but you are incorrect. Don't believe me, that's fine, try it out yourself. For 2 games, one game go all damage, another cap and damage, then compare.

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Basically all the damage was off low-value targets, damage farming off BBs lower tier than you are not going to pay out well. And you have no caps or defends.

If you want XP then your gonna have to have better games.

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1 hour ago, Lensar said:

Capping gives next to no xp. Spotting gives exactly zero xp.

Wargaming refuses to say whether this is as intended or a bug.

Then this should be changed.  Of course, wasn't it this way (i.e. good XP for capping) before some players complained that it was too easy for DDs to get good XP in ranked battles, so WG nerfed capping XP?

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19 minutes ago, Crucis said:

Then this should be changed.  Of course, wasn't it this way (i.e. good XP for capping) before some players complained that it was too easy for DDs to get good XP in ranked battles, so WG nerfed capping XP?

"That's gotta hurt."  - WoT

 

On a side note, that's absolutely correct. I was around then and I can verify that that was what happened.

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