Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
USSRichardNixon

Duke of York vs Lyon

32 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

53
[W-P-E]
Members
467 posts

I really love to keep Lyon but I don't want to waste another captain on it. I have Duke of York doing similar job. 

Do you keep Lyon even when you have Duke of York?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,187
[SYN]
[SYN]
Members
6,799 posts
10,299 battles
3 minutes ago, USSRichardNixon said:

I really love to keep Lyon but I don't want to waste another captain on it. I have Duke of York doing similar job. 

Do you keep Lyon even when you have Duke of York?

Lyon's one of the few ships I've ever kept. I kept her for the Hermes op, and because I went with a silly full-secondaries build which is occasionally amusing elsewhere.

Duke of York does a job I'm not that interested in having done - poor HE spamming T7 battleship.

Edited by mofton

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,784
[WOLF3]
Members
16,048 posts
14,440 battles

Lyon justifies her existence due to 2 reasons.  First and foremost are her 16 guns which is unique.  No other BB has that many guns  Only 2 CLs come that close, Helena and Mogami-155, and they're shooting 152 & 155mm guns respectively.  Outside Lyon herself, in BB Country, 12 is the max amount of guns we see.  The second thing she does well in, is in AA if specced for it.  Only AA Gneisenau is equal to her in Battleship AA in Tier VII.  Server stats-wise, she's also doing very well of the Tech Tree VII BBs.  Only KGV is doing better.

 

The better question is to justify DOY's existence when the superior KGV is around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22,858
[HINON]
Supertester
19,189 posts
12,700 battles

Lyon is a monster of a ship and fun to drive. Duke of York is a turd, weaker than its free tech-tree counterpart and the only reason I'm keeping her around is because of the ice camouflage, but I never drive her.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,501
[INTEL]
Members
6,659 posts
25,690 battles

Lyon always!

What? You do not like to have 16 guns?

If you do not like to have 16 guns, then maybe 16 tons?

 

 

Edited by alexf24
  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,968
[SYN]
Members
14,441 posts
10,418 battles

lol wut?

Why would you keep DoY over Lyon?

If it was KGV vs Lyon, then it's debatable, but DoY? Really?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33
[NET]
Beta Testers
457 posts
3,816 battles

i seal club err i mean platoon with a clanmate that has a lyon aslo. we focus fire with 32 shells flying and the results are awsome. sometimes i fling HE while he shoots AP. the HE is very strong, usually hit for 6-7k damage and almost always starts a fire. shes also one bb i dont mind being up tiered in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,953
[ARGSY]
Members
6,239 posts
4,207 battles

How does KGV compete with Lyon when she has six fewer barrels and only slightly larger calibre guns? Not doubting you, just curious to know, since I have Lyon and am working towards KGV.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,784
[WOLF3]
Members
16,048 posts
14,440 battles

If Lyon manages multi-hit AP salvos against a DD, "It's dead, Jim."  Given 16 shells flying, it's a realistic threat for DDs.

 

The 16 gun salvo is also potentially very devastating to Cruisers.  Cruisers try to live off the idea that BBs will tend to miss with their 6, 8, 9 gun salvos.  12 gun BBs like Montana, Fuso, etc. who send lots of shells flying is a big concern to Cruisers, because the chances of a hit occurring jump up, simply due to the extra dice rolls that come with the extra guns.  Lyon rolls the dice SIXTEEN TIMES to try and get hits.  One of the most satisfying things with Lyon is sending those 16 shells flying, you KNOW the aim is right the moment you fired, and the dispersion actually looks decent.  Whoever is on the receiving end is going to have a sh*tty day real soon.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
568
[KP]
Members
2,066 posts
18,769 battles
17 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Lyon justifies her existence due to 2 reasons.  First and foremost are her 16 guns which is unique.  No other BB has that many guns  Only 2 CLs come that close, Helena and Mogami-155, and they're shooting 152 & 155mm guns respectively.  Outside Lyon herself, in BB Country, 12 is the max amount of guns we see.  The second thing she does well in, is in AA if specced for it.  Only AA Gneisenau is equal to her in Battleship AA in Tier VII.  Server stats-wise, she's also doing very well of the Tech Tree VII BBs.  Only KGV is doing better.

 

The better question is to justify DOY's existence when the superior KGV is around.

I sold the Lyon but kept the Lion. 16 guns doesn't mean Sh if I only have a 21% hit rate. That's just not good enough. It's by far my lowest hit rate of not just BB's but all ships. If it doesn't reward good aim which Lyon doesn't it's not worth keeping.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,784
[WOLF3]
Members
16,048 posts
14,440 battles
6 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

How does KGV compete with Lyon when she has six fewer barrels and only slightly larger calibre guns? Not doubting you, just curious to know, since I have Lyon and am working towards KGV.

KGV's gunnery is still good to go.  It simply doesn't have the mass of fire Lyon does, but it's more than enough to get the job done.

 

What does KGV have that Lyon doesn't?

Concealment.

RN BB HE is "Universal."

 

I will say this.  Lyon is much more dangerous to Destroyers and Cruisers than KGV will ever be due to the 16 shells flying, but Lyon starts struggling when her piddly AP has to contend with BB Armor of higher tier Battleships.  That's where KGV's RN BB HE just laughs.  This became very apparent to me when I took KGV and Lyon and find myself in a Tier IX match with the much heavier armor found there.  You'll even find certain CAs that will bounce Lyon's AP.  But RN BBs don't care about armor.  Iowa, Missouri, Alsace, or any of those 27mm bow CAs, all look the same to KGV's HE shells, as if she was firing at a New York.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3,377
[HINON]
Members
9,013 posts
8 minutes ago, IronMike11B4O said:

I sold the Lyon but kept the Lion. 16 guns doesn't mean Sh if I only have a 21% hit rate. That's just not good enough. It's by far my lowest hit rate of not just BB's but all ships. If it doesn't reward good aim which Lyon doesn't it's not worth keeping.

 

Sure it does if you use those guns to hit ships that matter. I found myself firing more at DDs with this bb which reduced its accuracy but upped my winrate in her. Still managed to average over 80k damage per game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4,784
[WOLF3]
Members
16,048 posts
14,440 battles
8 minutes ago, IronMike11B4O said:

I sold the Lyon but kept the Lion. 16 guns doesn't mean Sh if I only have a 21% hit rate. That's just not good enough. It's by far my lowest hit rate of not just BB's but all ships. If it doesn't reward good aim which Lyon doesn't it's not worth keeping.

Git gud?

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,953
[ARGSY]
Members
6,239 posts
4,207 battles
14 minutes ago, IronMike11B4O said:

I sold the Lyon but kept the Lion. 16 guns doesn't mean Sh if I only have a 21% hit rate. That's just not good enough. It's by far my lowest hit rate of not just BB's but all ships. If it doesn't reward good aim which Lyon doesn't it's not worth keeping.

I'm sure that at some stage during development, they assigned the Lyon the Yubari's accuracy mod, just to see what would happen, and spent a vodka-and-borscht fuelled night mining Dev Strikes. And then when it all wore off, they looked at the wreckage and realised that if this ship's dispersion wasn't nerfed to hell, she'd become the hellspawn child of Belfast and Nikolai I.

And you know what would happen then. And you cannot do that to a tech-tree ship.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
238
[SF-3]
Members
1,506 posts
8,101 battles
51 minutes ago, Lert said:

Lyon is a monster of a ship and fun to drive. Duke of York is a turd, weaker than its free tech-tree counterpart and the only reason I'm keeping her around is because of the ice camouflage, but I never drive her.

My thoughts exactly. I love the Lyon, actually very fun to play. The DOY is hot garbage imo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,968
[SYN]
Members
14,441 posts
10,418 battles
46 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

How does KGV compete with Lyon when she has six fewer barrels and only slightly larger calibre guns? Not doubting you, just curious to know, since I have Lyon and am working towards KGV.

because HE of lol that penetrates even 57mm Musashi armor.

Where as Lyon's HE is average at best and its AP still cannot overmatch 25mm plating, meaning you have to try and punish broadsides.

Edited by MrDeaf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,953
[ARGSY]
Members
6,239 posts
4,207 battles
3 minutes ago, MrDeaf said:

because HE of lol that penetrates even 57mm Musashi armor.

Where as Lyon's HE is average at best and its AP still cannot overmatch 25mm plating, meaning you have to try and punish broadsides.

Someone needs to sit down one day and do a very clear video detailing the interactions and differences surrounding overmatch and autobounce. I understand the overmatch mechanic to mean "penetrates this armour at any angle regardless of effective angled thickness" (due to a greater equivalent path through angled plate), but I know some newer players who hadn't done a lot of theoretical reading would struggle to understand why battleship shells struggle in any way against only an inch of bow plate when they will punch straight through many times more side or belt armour on the broadside.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
279
[LHG]
Members
1,193 posts
4,953 battles

The Duke needs some sort of buff to be worth taking out over the free KGV. AA and hydro are niche advantages that together aren't worth the loss in durability and rate of fire. I'd personally love an accuracy buff, so that the Duke remains a ship that must play more conservatively than the KGV but more rewarding for doing so.

 

Lyon takes the Fusou/NM shotgun mentality to the next level, and it works. The third-in-class AA is a nice bonus. I bought the permacamo for her and will keep her even after getting Richie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Members
1,834 posts
17,617 battles
28 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

KGV's gunnery is still good to go.  It simply doesn't have the mass of fire Lyon does, but it's more than enough to get the job done.

 

What does KGV have that Lyon doesn't?

Concealment.

RN BB HE is "Universal."

 

I will say this.  Lyon is much more dangerous to Destroyers and Cruisers than KGV will ever be due to the 16 shells flying, but Lyon starts struggling when her piddly AP has to contend with BB Armor of higher tier Battleships.  That's where KGV's RN BB HE just laughs.  This became very apparent to me when I took KGV and Lyon and find myself in a Tier IX match with the much heavier armor found there.  You'll even find certain CAs that will bounce Lyon's AP.  But RN BBs don't care about armor.  Iowa, Missouri, Alsace, or any of those 27mm bow CAs, all look the same to KGV's HE shells, as if she was firing at a New York.

Lyon has HE too...the fire chance/shell may not be as high but the 16 chances of fire/volley makes up for it.

I don't have Lyon yet...but was on the opposing team when 3 of them were divved together spamming 48 round HE volleys. My Moltov was the 1st victim (I was looking out for them but got engaged w/a DD & they got the 1st volley from stealth right over the island I was trying to talk this DD behind so we could "consummate our engagement" is secrecy if you know what I mean)...it wasn't fun...but it sure was funny watching how quickly they consummated our entire team.

Nothing has enough fire protection against that...not even T9s (they may not be getting pen damage w/their HE shells...but they sure wear the DC out real fast).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,901
[CNO]
[CNO]
Members
3,837 posts
13,050 battles
3 hours ago, USSRichardNixon said:

I really love to keep Lyon but I don't want to waste another captain on it. I have Duke of York doing similar job. 

Do you keep Lyon even when you have Duke of York?

DoY is premium; it can take any captain.  Nothing wasted here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6
[-BSS-]
[-BSS-]
Members
48 posts
6,552 battles

I had some good games in the Lyon but I just don't like her turret layout so I sold it. The DoY was free and historically interesting so I kept it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42
[AXANR]
Beta Testers, In AlfaTesters
263 posts
11,146 battles
4 hours ago, USSRichardNixon said:

I really love to keep Lyon but I don't want to waste another captain on it. I have Duke of York doing similar job. 

Do you keep Lyon even when you have Duke of York?

Yup!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×