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NeutralState

Seattle's Avg Winrate is Ridongkulusly High

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The combination of hydro, radar, def AA, and fast guns makes Seattle an objective bully and late game clean up expert.

 

Avg win rate of the ship is slightly more than 54%, only Russian bias is higher in win rate in the same tier.

 

All these complains, guess the ship won't get buffs.

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I'd say give it time. Typically its always the more experienced players that get the new ships first which will artificially increase the avg. WR for some time. The only real complaint I hear is the firing angles, but that's about it. 

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Stats on new ships are always skewed.  Everyone thought the Budyonny was OP when it first came out.

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2 hours ago, NeutralState said:

The combination of hydro, radar, def AA, and fast guns makes Seattle an objective bully and late game clean up expert.

 

Avg win rate of the ship is slightly more than 54%, only Russian bias is higher in win rate in the same tier.

 

All these complains, guess the ship won't get buffs.

Is this the same Seattle no one i know had anything good to say about? I've heard more good thing's about Buffalo. Starting with 203's over whatever garbage system Seattle is running that is a downgrade from Cleveland. I'm dreading picking Seattle up. Researched it but daunted by its reputation is as a hurdle before Des Memes so haven't added it to my port yet.

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18 hours ago, NeutralState said:

The combination of hydro, radar, def AA, and fast guns makes Seattle an objective bully and late game clean up expert.

 

Avg win rate of the ship is slightly more than 54%, only Russian bias is higher in win rate in the same tier.

 

All these complains, guess the ship won't get buffs.

I expect that Seattle is being played by (1) experienced players who are (2) divisioned. I wish WOWS Stats and Numbers broke out the numbers by solo/divved so we could find her solo win rate.  If you look at the genuinely better Saint-Louis she does more damage than Seattle (and has better guns and also torps) but has a 2% lower win rate. 

image.thumb.png.d73248142cead0aee131732ad0e54683.png

 

Edited by Taichunger

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4 hours ago, NeutralState said:

The combination of hydro, radar, def AA, and fast guns makes Seattle an objective bully and late game clean up expert.

 

Avg win rate of the ship is slightly more than 54%, only Russian bias is higher in win rate in the same tier.

 

All these complains, guess the ship won't get buffs.

Why should it get buffs? If its competitive from a numbers perspective what else should they be really doing?

It's still early days, but hope of a buff with the ship having a 54%WR probably lowers those chances significantly.

These ships are more different Atlantas and that ship can be absolutely nasty in deft hands. 

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Eh, I give it a couple more weeks before I get one and manage to tank the ship's win percentage. :Smile-_tongue:

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4 hours ago, Grand_Viceroy_Zhou_Ziyu said:

Helena's is also very high at 55%, but I see it going down and I think it will settle at around 52%, 1% lower than Fiji.

Helena is broken in the right hands.  They literally put a Mogami at tier VII and said go bully.

Edited by Kongo_Pride
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1. The ship is what, maybe 2 weeks old? Mostly elite players have it/those that played new Cleveland to death.

2. In that same vain, as of this post, Seattle has just over 26k battles, "Russian Bias" (what I've seen of them more like "Russian citadel farm"), has 43k, and deals more damage and frags more ships, and that the "newest" non USN split cruiser, Saint-Louis, has almost 5 times as many battles. 

3. It was practically designed around the current meta, which gives it a slight edge for now

4. Most people had captains trained for this split, of at least 14 points. Which means most have IFHE, and are taking advantage of the fact that while Wargaming eventually updated fires and all on DD's and cruisers, because there was a sudden uptick in damage now that HE was penning even more reliably, the same has never been done for BB's or CV's (hell they are still making CV's worse against fires), so they've been farming more damage, especially cause that "rate of fire" is the same as Cleveland's, but max dispersion on top hull of Seattle is 125m, Cleveland is 141m .

 

The issue I typically hear about with Seattle is range, because she has less range than her predecessor which, in fairness, is kind of stupid.  And this is why just looking at numbers, especially a single number, is never enough to balance a game or call for changes, you have to know WHY numbers are the way they are. Too many people, and I think even Wargaming are guilty of this, look at a super small picture based on Winrate typically, and not the other stats, or even if they do, don't look at why other stats are the way they are. Midway is a perfect example post the dumb USN only revamp. They gave it back the broken 2,2,2 setup, and naturally, it was wrecking everything. Only difference being it now had AP bombs and the TB's  were capped at 8. Problem is USN fighters have always been and still are overpowered, unless the other CV can  abuse the locking system with exit strafe and the broken strafe system itself. Sure tier 10 AA can really mess up those TB's, but tier 8? not so much. And the AP bombs while sure, over pen DD's and light cruisers, and only normal pen some BB's if they aren't bounced, have crazy accuracy and can delete ships. And even the over pens/normal ones can do heavy damage. Fighters it would make sense to actually address that long addressed issue, nerf USN DPS, maybe raise IJN's a little, maybe biuff USN ammo. All things that lowering the tier effectively did, however, DFE skill basically cancels out the DPS nerf, the HP difference is minimal making the buff of IJN DPS vs USN hp near pointless, and basically, just acted as a buff to ammo. And that wasn't accounted for in the planned change. Even after this change, it was found that Hak was losing planes too fast in longer, drawn out battles, which, yes, partially this was the whole debacle that is fighter balance, however, it was just as much the fact AA has been buffed to insane levels, and Hak has always had a good deal lower reload ratio than Midway. So, to try and change that and maybe lower damage, they go to nerf Midway, instead of fix the two actual problems - 1 that 2 USN TB groups are OP and 2 that Hak has too few reserves. 3 if you count AP bomb damage is way too high given it's accuracy, game play, and the fact when you consider both max damage numbers are for citadel hits, and the last time I saw an HE bomb hit a citadel other than maybe GZ is when DD's still had them, way too high historically when you consider that the HE bomb in game has I think it was 3.5x the amount of explosives as the AP bomb being used but does  only about 25% more damage. But, there was an issue that 2,1,3, and that USN AS setups in general, were "ineffective and just to troll", just as USN strike while able to damage ships, lacked air cover. Simple answer, looking at the big picture, the numbers, and everything - Nerf USN fighter DPS, buff USN DB HP and increase accuracy of HE DB's a bit, bring AP bombs as an option but max out around 3-4k damage per hit to the citadel, and rework the "strike" loadouts to the current loadouts, except Midway that would have the 2,1,3 with now enhanced DB's. But whoever developed that re-balanced, and the changes to Midway since it was altered in it - only looked at a small picture.

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2 hours ago, Kongo_Pride said:

Helena is broken in the right hands.  They literally put a Mogami at tier VII and said go bully.

I'm finding a Helena/ Fiji Division to be the optimal set up. With 15rounds flying through the air most bow tanking battleships will eventually turn leaving way more juicy broadsides for Fiji AP. 

The fighter of the Helena really works well for when your peaking your ship in and out of Fiji smoke. I won't lie I Div'd to get my 80% win rate in Helena she is a beast in a Division. 9 Krakens in 41 battles I don't ever remember having a streak like this with a brand new ship, not even Belfast.

:)

Cheers

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Average player WR playing the Seattle right now is probably >55%, it might well be that corrected for playerbase Seattle is underperforming

Myself I played a small sample of games with good WR (mostly due to the vagaries of matchmaking) and I still think it's trash.

 

Even if it's not trash, the combination of firing angles, poor traverse and poor range made my 17 games overall unenjoyable and I'm glad I dropped the 100k FXP for Worcester. Seattle's about as ergonomic as a bed of nails.

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8 hours ago, NeutralState said:

The combination of hydro, radar, def AA, and fast guns makes Seattle an objective bully and late game clean up expert.

 

Avg win rate of the ship is slightly more than 54%, only Russian bias is higher in win rate in the same tier.

 

All these complains, guess the ship won't get buffs.

It isn't a pleasant ship to play. Bad gun angles make it feel like you are fighting with the ship rather than fighting in it, but that doesn't mean it needs buffs. I was doing surprisingly well in it even though I didn't enjoy playing it at all and I free xped out of it as soon as I could. You can make the ship work if you earned all the lessons the Cleveland taught you.

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I still think of Seattle as the Red Headed Step Child of High Tier USN CLs.

 

Cleveland does everything Seattle does, and does it 1 tier lower and is stealthier.

Worcester is better than Seattle in everything.

 

Of course, Seattle is not the only Tier IX ship to be like this.  Even Roon, which I consider very good, suffers this.

 

That max gun range with the "upgraded" Seattle-B Hull is LOL worthy!  How did this make it to Live?  STs, what gives?

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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Seattle's WR is heavily inflated because I don't have one yet. When I finally get one that WR will fall off precipitously.

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9 hours ago, NeutralState said:

The combination of hydro, radar, def AA, and fast guns makes Seattle an objective bully and late game clean up expert.

 

Avg win rate of the ship is slightly more than 54%, only Russian bias is higher in win rate in the same tier.

 

All these complains, guess the ship won't get buffs.

And here everyone is calling the ship trash. ROFL. Its not trash.

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3 hours ago, WanderingGhost said:

1. The ship is what, maybe 2 weeks old? Mostly elite players have it/those that played new Cleveland to death.

2. In that same vain, as of this post, Seattle has just over 26k battles, "Russian Bias" (what I've seen of them more like "Russian citadel farm"), has 43k, and deals more damage and frags more ships, and that the "newest" non USN split cruiser, Saint-Louis, has almost 5 times as many battles. 

3. It was practically designed around the current meta, which gives it a slight edge for now

4. Most people had captains trained for this split, of at least 14 points. Which means most have IFHE, and are taking advantage of the fact that while Wargaming eventually updated fires and all on DD's and cruisers, because there was a sudden uptick in damage now that HE was penning even more reliably, the same has never been done for BB's or CV's (hell they are still making CV's worse against fires), so they've been farming more damage, especially cause that "rate of fire" is the same as Cleveland's, but max dispersion on top hull of Seattle is 125m, Cleveland is 141m .

 

The issue I typically hear about with Seattle is range, because she has less range than her predecessor which, in fairness, is kind of stupid.  And this is why just looking at numbers, especially a single number, is never enough to balance a game or call for changes, you have to know WHY numbers are the way they are. Too many people, and I think even Wargaming are guilty of this, look at a super small picture based on Winrate typically, and not the other stats, or even if they do, don't look at why other stats are the way they are. Midway is a perfect example post the dumb USN only revamp. They gave it back the broken 2,2,2 setup, and naturally, it was wrecking everything. Only difference being it now had AP bombs and the TB's  were capped at 8. Problem is USN fighters have always been and still are overpowered, unless the other CV can  abuse the locking system with exit strafe and the broken strafe system itself. Sure tier 10 AA can really mess up those TB's, but tier 8? not so much. And the AP bombs while sure, over pen DD's and light cruisers, and only normal pen some BB's if they aren't bounced, have crazy accuracy and can delete ships. And even the over pens/normal ones can do heavy damage. Fighters it would make sense to actually address that long addressed issue, nerf USN DPS, maybe raise IJN's a little, maybe biuff USN ammo. All things that lowering the tier effectively did, however, DFE skill basically cancels out the DPS nerf, the HP difference is minimal making the buff of IJN DPS vs USN hp near pointless, and basically, just acted as a buff to ammo. And that wasn't accounted for in the planned change. Even after this change, it was found that Hak was losing planes too fast in longer, drawn out battles, which, yes, partially this was the whole debacle that is fighter balance, however, it was just as much the fact AA has been buffed to insane levels, and Hak has always had a good deal lower reload ratio than Midway. So, to try and change that and maybe lower damage, they go to nerf Midway, instead of fix the two actual problems - 1 that 2 USN TB groups are OP and 2 that Hak has too few reserves. 3 if you count AP bomb damage is way too high given it's accuracy, game play, and the fact when you consider both max damage numbers are for citadel hits, and the last time I saw an HE bomb hit a citadel other than maybe GZ is when DD's still had them, way too high historically when you consider that the HE bomb in game has I think it was 3.5x the amount of explosives as the AP bomb being used but does  only about 25% more damage. But, there was an issue that 2,1,3, and that USN AS setups in general, were "ineffective and just to troll", just as USN strike while able to damage ships, lacked air cover. Simple answer, looking at the big picture, the numbers, and everything - Nerf USN fighter DPS, buff USN DB HP and increase accuracy of HE DB's a bit, bring AP bombs as an option but max out around 3-4k damage per hit to the citadel, and rework the "strike" loadouts to the current loadouts, except Midway that would have the 2,1,3 with now enhanced DB's. But whoever developed that re-balanced, and the changes to Midway since it was altered in it - only looked at a small picture.

You've brought up a very valid point, pre trained captain. I also want to add that the CL line was release coincide with events that provide players with exp boost and consumables. So Seattle as a whole probably played fewer games as a stock ship. What I want to see is average win rate of players that uses premium time + exp boost vs those who don't. A pre trained captain and exp boost to skip over stock config quickly, both increases the baseline performance of the ship by quite a bit.

Edited by NeutralState

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It's an entirely different story between a Seattle with IFHE and a Seattle without it.

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8 hours ago, NeutralState said:

You've brought up a very valid point, pre trained captain. I also want to add that the CL line was release coincide with events that provide players with exp boost and consumables. So Seattle as a whole probably played fewer games as a stock ship. What I want to see is average win rate of players that uses premium time + exp boost vs those who don't. A pre trained captain and exp boost to skip over stock config quickly, both increases the baseline performance of the ship by quite a bit.

I don't have Seattle, But I have Cleveland (which was a stock grind again) and while I'e been kinda killing it Baltimore, Cleveland I'm at 44% when server average of the new one is over 51%, and I have premium and flags that sped it up. And I had a captain ready to go. Sure, it can help to get out of a stock grind faster but, but if you still struggle, get bad teams, or just don't jive with the play style, still gonna be worse even with premium flags to make the ship better faster. In my case a mixture of all the above because for some reason I'm not dialed in on accuracy the way I was, I'm not great with the island hiding style and well, even when I'm having good games I've had times where no one is even trying to cap and well, you can imagine how THAT goes.

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