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Clan progression battles placing against higher league clans

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Balance Improvements
Last season, we noticed a lot of comments saying that the matchmaking had degraded. We did some research and improved the logic of the system. In the new season, it will take a little longer to find an opponent than in the previous season, but this will allow for finding teams that are more evenly matched by rating than before.

https://worldofwarships.com/en/news/common/clan-vs-clan-season-3/#rating

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Team matchmaking will be based on your Clan's skill level, which is manifested through the League and Group your Clan occupies.

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Clan_Battles

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Thought three Gale-league clans in a row while still in Squall. Is this normal?

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2 minutes ago, Kapitan_Wuff said:

Yes, that is normal.

Thought we'd be matched against other Squalls trying to progress to Gale. Thanks for the answer.

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3 hours ago, Cruiser_StLouis said:

Thought we'd be matched against other Squalls trying to progress to Gale. Thanks for the answer.

Previous seasons we regularly saw teams two leagues above us. However, when you fight a higher ranked team you risk fewer points on a loss with the chance of earning more points on a win.

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Clan Battles will be just as bad as the last two seasons.

So many players want to enter the fray but the Gawd Awful battle schedule is non accommodating to more than you know.

Those Clans that are successful in fielding a team are only a fraction of those who would love to compete. 

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31 minutes ago, Kapitan_Wuff said:

Previous seasons we regularly saw teams two leagues above us. However, when you fight a higher ranked team you risk fewer points on a loss with the chance of earning more points on a win.

Wow that sucks!! As if I needed more things to demotivate me for CB. I never checked the teams against the board to see what I was playing. 

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8 minutes ago, CLUCH_CARGO said:

Clan Battles will be just as bad as the last two seasons.

So many players want to enter the fray but the Gawd Awful battle schedule is non accommodating to more than you know.

Those Clans that are successful in fielding a team are only a fraction of those who would love to compete. 

So true!!

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8 hours ago, STOGGYRETURNS said:

Wow that sucks!! As if I needed more things to demotivate me for CB. I never checked the teams against the board to see what I was playing. 

I think you miss understand. It actually works well, lower ranked teams while sometimes challenged with higher ranked teams get the benefit of the way the point system works. If you lose to a team that is a league or two higher than you, you will not lose many points at all, so the loss doesn't hurt you much. But when you manage to win against a 'better' team, you are reward with lots of points. Its possible to actually have a WR below 50% but still climb the ranks.

 

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1 hour ago, Kapitan_Wuff said:

I think you miss understand. It actually works well, lower ranked teams while sometimes challenged with higher ranked teams get the benefit of the way the point system works. If you lose to a team that is a league or two higher than you, you will not lose many points at all, so the loss doesn't hurt you much. But when you manage to win against a 'better' team, you are reward with lots of points. Its possible to actually have a WR below 50% but still climb the ranks.

 

So, "Low Risk High Reward," is what you're saying, if I am understanding correctly?

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11 hours ago, CLUCH_CARGO said:

Clan Battles will be just as bad as the last two seasons.

So many players want to enter the fray but the Gawd Awful battle schedule is non accommodating to more than you know.

Those Clans that are successful in fielding a team are only a fraction of those who would love to compete. 

We don't often agree but clutch is right, they should extend the window at least a bit, especially earlier on Saturday. My only guess why they don't is similar to the 10/25 NL game at Foxwoods. So few of us played at those stakes that we set days to play to get enough people, especially because for some of us it was a 1 hour drive just to get there. If we didn't communicate a working schedule, we'd all just show up at our convenience and never get a good game going.  Meaning if clan battles ran on a wider schedule, many clans might struggle with getting the necessary 7 players as some log in and others later log out.

Having a tighter window might be what's helping smaller clans more than we realize. Just a hypothesis anyway.

There also seems to be less clans playing, maybe that has something to do with the Stalingrad nerf making the grind no longer worth it or the skill gap that is preventing most clans from progressing to the upper tiers. I heard some clans were frustrated with not winning enough for it to be fun.

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1 hour ago, A_Crying_Hipster said:

There also seems to be less clans playing, maybe that has something to do with the Stalingrad nerf making the grind no longer worth it or the skill gap that is preventing most clans from progressing to the upper tiers. I heard some clans were frustrated with not winning enough for it to be fun.

Its probably the skill gap. The skill floor for CW is actually pretty high. You would expect that there would be an average smattering of clans around, but the way it works the bottom level of players have fallen out. So to get even a 50/50 win rate at the lowest tiers you have to be dedicated, and have more than average skill level players. This isn't something people expected coming from ranked or randoms. Players that consider themselves at least average at the game come off of 1/3 win ratios probably just don't want to keep going. It's a huge hit to the ego.

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3 hours ago, Sou1forge said:

Its probably the skill gap. The skill floor for CW is actually pretty high. You would expect that there would be an average smattering of clans around, but the way it works the bottom level of players have fallen out. So to get even a 50/50 win rate at the lowest tiers you have to be dedicated, and have more than average skill level players. This isn't something people expected coming from ranked or randoms. Players that consider themselves at least average at the game come off of 1/3 win ratios probably just don't want to keep going. It's a huge hit to the ego.

Sou1forge gets it and shockingly enough Crying_Hipster sounds like he is coming around. Kodos!!  Although I go the other way with the time schedule issue. I think It should start at 4:30PM EST and run until 3:00AM EST. Currently it starts at 4:30PST PM and end at 8:30PM PST which sucks. It is the NA server not the East Coast server. I honest don't think the majority even know or care the Stalingrad is there. All they care about is winning enough or at all to make it not be a massive waste of time to participate. 


With people getting deleted so easily in randoms these days I imagine every one in unranked clans expects clan battles to be 100 fold worse. So why would they play it? Everyone needs a loser to be a winner. You can't be a winner if someone doesn't lose. So how do you get people who know they are going to lose to participate so other clans can level up the CB tiers? 
 

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7 hours ago, Kapitan_Wuff said:

I think you miss understand. It actually works well, lower ranked teams while sometimes challenged with higher ranked teams get the benefit of the way the point system works. If you lose to a team that is a league or two higher than you, you will not lose many points at all, so the loss doesn't hurt you much. But when you manage to win against a 'better' team, you are reward with lots of points. Its possible to actually have a WR below 50% but still climb the ranks.

 

How is it low risk when your Squall 3 with 0 points and just want to win but get matched against tiers higher then Squall? (I have no example just a theoretical situation at the min) But I know it has happened because we lost our first game and gained points for losing "okish" to people way better then us. 

Every lose hurts us because we have only won 1 time out of 13 tries across 2 nights and my clan members want nothing to do with it now. I get what your saying in theory but it only helps people who are prepared and sets up the lessor to be that much more worse off and less likely to get a win or a reward.

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@STOGGYRETURNS

Clan Battles is a whole different beast than anything else in this game. Even good players in randoms/ranked have to adapt to CBs. So a new team has a uphill battle to learn how to play together and adjust to CBs. But CBs has become my favorite game mode by far.

If you would like a little help message me on discord and I can see what I can do to help y'all get some wins.

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9 minutes ago, Kapitan_Wuff said:

@STOGGYRETURNS

Clan Battles is a whole different beast than anything else in this game. Even good players in randoms/ranked have to adapt to CBs. So a new team has a uphill battle to learn how to play together and adjust to CBs. But CBs has become my favorite game mode by far.

If you would like a little help message me on discord and I can see what I can do to help y'all get some wins.

We did leaps and bounds better then this in past sessions. I wish there was something that could be done but thank you for the offer.  You could guarantee them steel on a platter at this point and they still wouldn't care. As far as they are concerned they don't care about Flints and Blacks because as so many have said it wasn't made for the likes of us. So unless you got motivation, time, and a reason to play hiding under your hat I think we are finished with CB. 

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5 hours ago, STOGGYRETURNS said:

We did leaps and bounds better then this in past sessions. I wish there was something that could be done but thank you for the offer.  You could guarantee them steel on a platter at this point and they still wouldn't care. As far as they are concerned they don't care about Flints and Blacks because as so many have said it wasn't made for the likes of us. So unless you got motivation, time, and a reason to play hiding under your hat I think we are finished with CB. 

Which is unfortunate. If its a trend like I expect it is then without a good increase in new players CWs days are numbered. 

Overall it's symptomatic of a larger issue. Players get to a certain level and convince themselves they can't do better. Then if they hit a losing streak or something like CW that tells them they need to do better to win they give up. The logic goes: I'm X good. I need to be Y good to do Z. Being Y good is impossible or nearly impossible for me because (insert reason here). Therefore I won't do Z.

The better solution would be to reevaluate that. A lot of people put that Y value too high. A lot of people convince themselves for flawed reasons that they can't be that good, and make excuses like "you need to live and breath ships to play CW". 

To all those not ready for CW, don't give up. You don't really have to be a god at ships to win. If you can maintain a decent win ratio, and hit ships, then its possible. You will have to put in some effort. Not a ton, you don't have to be able to call every strategy. Instead find out what you are trying to do in your ship that isn't working. If you are playing Des Moines, and can't quite stay alive long enough, reevaluate how you play rocks. Try pushing at times you normally wouldn't. Try staying back times you normally would. You know, try things. Figure out what works REALLY, and then try and apply that. If your caller doesn't understand offer to show them in a practice battle afterwards. If you can master this kind of thinking you WILL get better. You WILL be ready for CW the next time it comes along. Until then focus on not letting a few loses ruin learning to win.

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5 hours ago, Sou1forge said:

Which is unfortunate. If its a trend like I expect it is then without a good increase in new players CWs days are numbered. 

Overall it's symptomatic of a larger issue. Players get to a certain level and convince themselves they can't do better. Then if they hit a losing streak or something like CW that tells them they need to do better to win they give up. The logic goes: I'm X good. I need to be Y good to do Z. Being Y good is impossible or nearly impossible for me because (insert reason here). Therefore I won't do Z.

 

Your not wrong. It's called a logical evaluation of time spent. I come from EVE so that is all I do. I am hard wired to evaluate risk and rewards.

 

5 hours ago, Sou1forge said:

To all those not ready for CW, don't give up. You don't really have to be a god at ships to win. If you can maintain a decent win ratio, and hit ships, then its possible. You will have to put in some effort. Not a ton, you don't have to be able to call every strategy. Instead find out what you are trying to do in your ship that isn't working. If you are playing Des Moines, and can't quite stay alive long enough, reevaluate how you play rocks. Try pushing at times you normally wouldn't. Try staying back times you normally would. You know, try things. Figure out what works REALLY, and then try and apply that. If your caller doesn't understand offer to show them in a practice battle afterwards. If you can master this kind of thinking you WILL get better. You WILL be ready for CW the next time it comes along. Until then focus on not letting a few loses ruin learning to win.

It isn't so much about quiting it's about organizing adults who simply don't believe there is anything fun or rewarding about it to do something they view as a waste of time, coin, and morale. Convincing them to get root canals would be easier then asking them to take time from their families, work, and free time to lose and not have fun.

I think your right and Clan Wars days are numbered. It has always been a S**T show of an idea since tanks when it was about battling for territory. Ranked wasn't a lot better. When the rewards became stupid flags instead of signals I stop playing it because it then becomes not worth the time. You get matches with peoples alts who may or may not play because they are helping a friend on the red team win because they attempted to 123 battle onto the same team.

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Typically players like me in collector mode couldn't give a crap about our stats and only play to collect that next free ship or FXP ship. Obviously a collector wants all the tier Xs. The majority of my efforts go to collecting camos and signals, and waiting for more premium giveaways when I am not working a campaign. On those days and the days when we get 100% or 200% xp for first wins. I only play for the first win and rotate thru every ship with stars looking to generate those fat fxp and cxp outcomes. A reason why I get so upset about Tirpitz changes on this forum is it was my go to all day fxp ship because of its 100% fxp perma camo.  I think most people from the beginning like me are all about the "why". As in "Why do I still play?". Me personally it is because I have such a low opinion of gaming development across the map right now. "I got no where to go!" (Officer and a Gentleman joke)  Ships for me is a partial relive of being a child with $1 grocery store battleship packs in the bathtubs, sinks, and puddles and all the Battlestations and Pacific Theater of Operations games I played for likely an unhealthy amount of time :)

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i think this is perfectly fine

you are trying to cross from squall to gale, so fighting either squall or gale seems reasonable to me

 

i was one of the people sending in comment about bad MM last season, reason being during our BO5 from gale to storm, we ran into NADO who was already in typhoon

that is what they fixed i think

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I myself gave up on CW .

I am not a bad player , but not a great player either , somewhere in the middle .

Also I am not a shot caller . I need the leader to be precise and detailed in what they need me to do .

Give me the orders and i will carry them out to the best of my ability .

I play mainly solo , i rarely even Div with anyone .

So i need to practice with the " team "  a lot to make it work for me .

And there is where my main issue is . with work and RL  i just don't have the time to dedicate to training , practice and not to mention the CW scheduling can be hard to meet .

I left the game for almost a year , came back last season for CW . got disenfranchised again , and now a rarely even play . 

Maybe a battle here and there , then log out.

 

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Don't forget that there is A and B squads as well and the clan rating that you see is the rating of the highest rated squad.  One squad could be hurricane and the other squall.  The hurricane squad will see hurricane and typhoon, the squall squad will see squall and gale.  

 

That said it seems that the way MM works is when you are in a league you mostly see teams from that league, however can see teams up or down 1 league, but mostly in the highest or lowest brackets respectfully.   When in promotion series it seems that you will see mostly teams from the league above or even 2 above.   So when in squall promo for gale you will see gale and storm.   Not sure how demotion series works yet.

Edited by SyndicatedINC
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3 hours ago, jason199506 said:

i think this is perfectly fine

you are trying to cross from squall to gale, so fighting either squall or gale seems reasonable to me

 

i was one of the people sending in comment about bad MM last season, reason being during our BO5 from gale to storm, we ran into NADO who was already in typhoon

that is what they fixed i think

This omg, so much this. I remember in the first season we were in storm and 7 of 10 games were against Typhoon teams, with the likes of K, ZR, OPG, etc... it was horrible. This season seems better though.

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