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Billy2Hawks

Yes another MM rant

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Yes, I need to get this out, sorry for having to do this, but I need to get it out of my system.

If you are going to MM me into a losing game, could I just take the loss and be done with it? It is seriously a waste of my free time, to have to sit through a game that is so lopsided that there is absolutely nothing engaging or fun about. Bam, 10 minutes of my time wasted fighting a battle that my side had no hope of winning. Bam, 15 minutes gone because no one will move forward to engage or cap. Bam 2 hours wasted on battles where the teams RNG has put me into might have sank 3 of 48 - 60 ships.

There really is nothing fun about being shot up by 4 - 8 ships, half of which you can't even see to fire back at.

So now I have a choice, take a break and WASTE my premium time, or continue this fecal show and get more frustrated.

I don't want guaranteed wins. I would love to even have competitive losses,  but these are getting to be fewer and fewer. It is frustrating to have the feeling that you cannot influence a battle. It even gets to the point where I want to just park the ship and walk away and let the enemy have the kill.

I just did this in my last battle where I had 5 ships shooting at me, 3 from behind islands, 1 from smoke, and a BB that was angled against me. I was literally defenseless. I could not harm one of the ships shooting at me. How is this supposed to be fun, and why am I paying money for it?

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1 minute ago, Billy2Hawks said:

Yes, I need to get this out, sorry for having to do this, but I need to get it out of my system.

If you are going to MM me into a losing game, could I just take the loss and be done with it? It is seriously a waste of my free time, to have to sit through a game that is so lopsided that there is absolutely nothing engaging or fun about. Bam, 10 minutes of my time wasted fighting a battle that my side had no hope of winning. Bam, 15 minutes gone because no one will move forward to engage or cap. Bam 2 hours wasted on battles where the teams RNG has put me into might have sank 3 of 48 - 60 ships.

There really is nothing fun about being shot up by 4 - 8 ships, half of which you can't even see to fire back at.

So now I have a choice, take a break and WASTE my premium time, or continue this fecal show and get more frustrated.

I don't want guaranteed wins. I would love to even have competitive losses,  but these are getting to be fewer and fewer. It is frustrating to have the feeling that you cannot influence a battle. It even gets to the point where I want to just park the ship and walk away and let the enemy have the kill.

I just did this in my last battle where I had 5 ships shooting at me, 3 from behind islands, 1 from smoke, and a BB that was angled against me. I was literally defenseless. I could not harm one of the ships shooting at me. How is this supposed to be fun, and why am I paying money for it?

Nothing wrong with a good rant now and then .. good on yea !! At time MM drives my nuts also

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I definitely agree with the game feeling like a total waste of time in some matches that are just an awful experience on either side.

Conversely, if your team is 100% guaranteed to win, I feel like you should be allowed to go back to port, even if your ship is still alive.
I feel that I am being punitively punished when the last ships left alive are running into the corner and I'll never be able to deal damage to them, cap anything or do anything productive to increase my XP at all.

Currently, if you quit to port, despite playing 10min+, having all caps, the red team severely outnumbered and being a 100% guaranteed win, you will go pink for "leaving the match early".

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43 minutes ago, MrDeaf said:

I definitely agree with the game feeling like a total waste of time in some matches that are just an awful experience on either side.

Conversely, if your team is 100% guaranteed to win, I feel like you should be allowed to go back to port, even if your ship is still alive.
I feel that I am being punitively punished when the last ships left alive are running into the corner and I'll never be able to deal damage to them, cap anything or do anything productive to increase my XP at all.

Currently, if you quit to port, despite playing 10min+, having all caps, the red team severely outnumbered and being a 100% guaranteed win, you will go pink for "leaving the match early".

^^^ This too.

I have actually been in winning battle where I could not get to a place where I could do significant damage. In and goo battle with most ships below t8, I can usually do 60k + dmg. In some battles, I can't get in range fast enough and will have under 40k.

Even in the battles where it is a rollover win, I feel kind of bad, because it really isn't a GG, and someone suffers through the same frustration I have.

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I think everyone has had those matches; you start the match, get into a close battle with a couple of team mates vs some of the reds, you beat the local bad guys, look up, and you and the guys on your team that you were battling with are the only ones left while there are still 8 reds looking for you.

Where are my scuttling charges when I need them?

These are never fun, though it is always a challenge to buck the odds and just go for it.And they aren't all that bad until you get like a dozen in a row and they fill up your entire night. But, hey ... ya pays yer quarter and ya takes yer chances!

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When I used to play World of Tanks, I noticed when you used one of those xp boost consumables with the time limit or whatever they are called, I would go the entire hour with maybe two wins so I quit using them.

Anymore I just go back to port when we are down 5 or more kills. This game isn't gonna troll me out of my free time anymore.

Edited by Rabbitt81

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:cap_popcorn:

Cant go wrong without a good knowledge of game mechanics.

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I am stunned that there hasn't been the usual glib, contrarian responses.  There is a reason why this thread keeps coming up, again and again.  OP, keep the faith.  I hope the devs listen and institute some type of skill bases system.

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Blowout matches, whether wins or losses, simply aren't fun for either side. Whether you're on the green team or the red team, the match ending so quickly means you'll likely not have much of a chance to rack up damage and kills, because the battle may as well be decided when you've just started flexing your muscles. When I see a match where the enemy team is running away rather than pushing aggressively into my team, I know I'll have a bad time. Recently I'm finding myself not only criticizing my team's lack of coordination and general cowardice / passiveness, but I've been telling the reds to stop running away and hiding in the back, because that doesn't win matches. This is all with the assumption that not only the players on my team, but also the players on the enemy team are serious about the game and want to do their best, but it seems that I'm always "humbled" by the casual / carefree attitudes of most players who don't learn, don't want to do decently, don't read the forums etc.

   It's not a good feeling when you've only managed 40-50k damage not because you died early or you lack familiarity with the ship, but because either your team or the enemy team just melted too darn quickly, leaving you with little chance to make any meaningful contribution. It's agonizing to have strings of bad allied teams, it's also agony to have strings of enemy teams that melt before you.

Edited by Grand_Viceroy_Zhou_Ziyu
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11 minutes ago, driedjello said:

I am stunned that there hasn't been the usual glib, contrarian responses.  There is a reason why this thread keeps coming up, again and again.  OP, keep the faith.  I hope the devs listen and institute some type of skill bases system.

So am I. Give it time...lol. Based on what I have seen in the developer diaries, it is the biggest problem being reported by the community and development team recognizes it’s a problem. They just haven’t adequately addressed it. 

Edited by USNA_76
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Tonight was extraordinarily lopsided without a single good game in ...7? 8? Or so before i just kicked back and wrapped up with a popular online card game and a movie streaming service.

Hopefully I’ll be in the clear for at least a month or two.

Edited by BenSinkin

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I just don't understand a game that can track countless pieces of statistical data in your profile and yet the MM for the game can't take any of this into account for a balanced match other than the ship class and tier. It just seems lazy for the purpose of getting you into a game how much faster? Does anybody really know how long it would take to form a match with say similar win rates or some other performance value?  My foil hat side thinks the company psychologist has shown them this would lower the bottom line somehow by removing frustration and therefor the motivation to get (buy) the next thing that will help you win.  It's getting almost as bad as WOT for the fun value.

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3 hours ago, Billy2Hawks said:

Yes, I need to get this out, sorry for having to do this, but I need to get it out of my system.

If you are going to MM me into a losing game, could I just take the loss and be done with it? It is seriously a waste of my free time, to have to sit through a game that is so lopsided that there is absolutely nothing engaging or fun about. Bam, 10 minutes of my time wasted fighting a battle that my side had no hope of winning. Bam, 15 minutes gone because no one will move forward to engage or cap. Bam 2 hours wasted on battles where the teams RNG has put me into might have sank 3 of 48 - 60 ships.

There really is nothing fun about being shot up by 4 - 8 ships, half of which you can't even see to fire back at.

So now I have a choice, take a break and WASTE my premium time, or continue this fecal show and get more frustrated.

I don't want guaranteed wins. I would love to even have competitive losses,  but these are getting to be fewer and fewer. It is frustrating to have the feeling that you cannot influence a battle. It even gets to the point where I want to just park the ship and walk away and let the enemy have the kill.

I just did this in my last battle where I had 5 ships shooting at me, 3 from behind islands, 1 from smoke, and a BB that was angled against me. I was literally defenseless. I could not harm one of the ships shooting at me. How is this supposed to be fun, and why am I paying money for it?

 

34 minutes ago, Punisher_One said:

I just don't understand a game that can track countless pieces of statistical data in your profile and yet the MM for the game can't take any of this into account for a balanced match other than the ship class and tier. It just seems lazy for the purpose of getting you into a game how much faster? Does anybody really know how long it would take to form a match with say similar win rates or some other performance value?  My foil hat side thinks the company psychologist has shown them this would lower the bottom line somehow by removing frustration and therefor the motivation to get (buy) the next thing that will help you win.  It's getting almost as bad as WOT for the fun value.

There are two Major  Beefs I have with MM System 1st are the people who just sit back and expect a win where they put in minimal effort 2nd is where your sent in with ships two ranks higher than yours  one rank I can see n live with  two?   No :etc_swear::etc_red_button:  Way  :Smile-angry::Smile_facepalm: I know if WG  put in the effort they could fix this therefore it is deliberate on they're part and there's only two reasons  I can see why this would be working this was,    One  giving the higher tier ships something easy to chew on.   Two  A Handicap something one side (the one with more skill OR determination/will to win)could utilize to overcome the other side and since in most case's the only thing the lower tier ship's can do is try to stay out of sight and or out of the way:Smile_sad::cap_rambo:

Edited by shadowsrmine

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Sorry - MM does not put together a team to lose - just can't happen.  In any game there will be lopsided wins and losses purely by statistics.  Blowouts WILL happen even with 'skill' based MM.  You can see that in professional games as well - football ( biggest blowouts ion Supoer Bowl history:  https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/02/05/biggest-blowouts-super-bowl-history ) , baseball ( World sweries blowouts:  https://www.sportingcharts.com/articles/mlb/biggest-game-7-blowouts-in-world-series-history.aspx ) , racing, tennis etc...  Sports like baseball and football use the regular season games to decides who are  the best teams - based on skill and yet - blowouts happen; even after a 100+ game season for baseball).  And yes - people still can't define 'skill' for WoWs  but they will bring it up like it will solve the worlds problems.

Edited by CylonRed
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3 hours ago, Grand_Viceroy_Zhou_Ziyu said:

Blowout matches, whether wins or losses, simply aren't fun for either side.

But they are much better than camp-a-thons...(where 1 team has A cap & the other has C...& we're good w/that) where you end up getting the same XP for a 20 minute match because everybody camped until the end of the game w/all DDs on both sides hugging the edges of the maps white line torp spamming...& rather than continuing to spot a ship (& any others they may have been spotting) for the team after spamming it they immediately fire on the ship (I'm guessing in an attempt to set it on fire so it uses it's DC before the torps get there rather than waiting for the torp hits to set it on fire) causing target to immediately turn off the white line...& then smoking to go undetected after firing thus losing the spot(s).

Of course a lot of times this happens because nobody advanced to help support the DDs at the start.

Of course when this happens you can't get the cruisers to go out & spot or they will get annihilated (excluding that Brit CL that will go forward just enough to spot a ship that immediately disappears because the Brit cruiser smokes after firing at it).

tl/dr: At least they are back to port quicker.

Edited by IfYouSeeKhaos

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2 hours ago, Punisher_One said:

I just don't understand a game that can track countless pieces of statistical data in your profile and yet the MM for the game can't take any of this into account for a balanced match other than the ship class and tier. It just seems lazy for the purpose of getting you into a game how much faster? Does anybody really know how long it would take to form a match with say similar win rates or some other performance value?  My foil hat side thinks the company psychologist has shown them this would lower the bottom line somehow by removing frustration and therefor the motivation to get (buy) the next thing that will help you win.  It's getting almost as bad as WOT for the fun value.

Thought a lot about this as I compare the ranked system in Warcraft to Wows. I think the problem is that it takes 24 players to field a team and Wows has to fight putting a game together quickly against waiting till the number of equally skilled players are in que to field the team. Then throw in a purple player playing a new ship for the first time.. how would he be rated......so many variables it would be impossible to accurately judge all 24 players.

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Too bad you never seem to know which games are going to be complete stomps until after a few minutes into the game. Though sometimes you just know based on where the team goes on the Mini-Map.

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1 minute ago, Kevik70 said:

Too bad you never seem to know which games are going to be complete stomps until after a few minutes into the game. Though sometimes you just know based on where the team goes on the Mini-Map.

Me in chat: pls don't lemming to A.

No  response, nobody turns. 

Welp, time to yolo.

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18 hours ago, Billy2Hawks said:

I just did this in my last battle where I had 5 ships shooting at me, 3 from behind islands, 1 from smoke, and a BB that was angled against me. I was literally defenseless. I could not harm one of the ships shooting at me. How is this supposed to be fun, and why am I paying money for it?

Sometimes, the other guy does something right. Other times, it's 5 people.

We've all been there- and sometimes the difference of hitting left rudder or right rudder at the beginning of the battle can be the butterfly effect that results in a landslide victory or loss... or a knife fight to the end and a draw.

Take the rant for what it is- you've gotten it out of your system. Get back on the horse, go in and watch as things start to come around as it's "your turn" to be on the good team now. Literally. OWN the mistakes you made that contributed to the loss- don't just write them off as everyone else's fault. Do a little better each time so you're prepared to influence the battle when that's even possible. 

This is totally subjective, but I know if I'm in a string of wins that I'll have a string of losses sooner than later. I know once I'm in a string of losses it's just a matter of time before I get into the mish mash of win lose and then I'll have some glorious massive damage games and hero status leaderboard wins before descending again into the depths of futility.  

Edited by _ENO_

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16 hours ago, driedjello said:

I am stunned that there hasn't been the usual glib, contrarian responses.  There is a reason why this thread keeps coming up, again and again.  OP, keep the faith.  I hope the devs listen and institute some type of skill bases system.

sadly, skill based MM does jack squat, because I have played a game that had it and it literally did jack squat to stop steamrolls from happening.

IMO, to stop steamrolls from happening, there would have to be a game mechanic like respawns or adding in additional players/bots to the losing team as reinforcement.

Edited by MrDeaf

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13 hours ago, CylonRed said:

Sorry - MM does not put together a team to lose - just can't happen.  In any game there will be lopsided wins and losses purely by statistics.  Blowouts WILL happen even with 'skill' based MM.  You can see that in professional games as well - football ( biggest blowouts ion Supoer Bowl history:  https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/02/05/biggest-blowouts-super-bowl-history ) , baseball ( World sweries blowouts:  https://www.sportingcharts.com/articles/mlb/biggest-game-7-blowouts-in-world-series-history.aspx ) , racing, tennis etc...  Sports like baseball and football use the regular season games to decides who are  the best teams - based on skill and yet - blowouts happen; even after a 100+ game season for baseball).  And yes - people still can't define 'skill' for WoWs  but they will bring it up like it will solve the worlds problems.

One difference with Sports and WoWs, is that in Sports, you don't lose players during the match, unless they commit an egregious foul or require medical attention.

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Hmmm....    so, you're at a 52% win rate, and most of those games likely didn't come as what would be considered a "great battle", with equal points going to the 0:00 buzzer.      Maybe 5% of those wins are like that.     So a majority of your win rate is likely due to your green team steam-rolling the reds.

Are you dissatisfied with those wins as you are with the losses?

There are some that say MM uses algorithms to purposely keep us at around a 50% win rate.     There's a lot of folks above 50% WR that would disagree.

My opinion is that MM may play a slight role in lopsidedness - it's exaggerated with placing divisions.    But I can't blame MM too much when there's human nature at play.   If it's a random mix of players, I can expect there's gonna be some good players and some potatoes on my team.   My hope is that the team maker put more potatoes on the red team.     I can also point to that human nature springing to life when the player positioner puts us on the map.   Where I start usually determines my course of action.    And.... I hate it when it puts me out in BFE, by myself, way on the edge.     I assume the red train is coming.    I can run to the main group to leave the flank unattended, or I can march forward, hold my ground, and pray to RNGesus that my team will push as I hold off the hounds.

And, like in your example, you do just that.   It sucks to have five people shooting at you.   BUT, you are taking five ships' worth of guns off your teammates.   Kiting and having half the red team targeting you is a noble effort.   It just gets frustrating when your team cannot deliver.    For me, thinking I'm stalling the reds usually gives the game some purpose..... well, at least until I see the team counter, and our fleet has already lost five ships... and my priority target still shows five ships aiming at my butt.

It happens.   I hope your experience gets better.   Sail true, Skipper!

 

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21 minutes ago, MrDeaf said:

One difference with Sports and WoWs, is that in Sports, you don't lose players during the match, unless they commit an egregious foul or require medical attention.

Not how that makes any real difference.  The examples are clear that skill based games where in the World Series or Super Bowl, generally the top 5 overall teams play and they have proven their skill that year, and blow outs can, will, and do occur - it is a natural part of statistics. 

Edited by CylonRed

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51 minutes ago, DiddleDum said:

Are you dissatisfied with those wins as you are with the losses?

 

18 hours ago, Billy2Hawks said:

I don't want guaranteed wins. I would love to even have competitive losses,  but these are getting to be fewer and fewer. It is frustrating to have the feeling that you cannot influence a battle. It even gets to the point where I want to just park the ship and walk away and let the enemy have the kill.

Yes, I actually am not really satisfied with steam rolled wins as well. Why? Because some times I don't even really get to engage the enemy, and can spend 10 minutes trying to get to the action only to get a few shots off before the game is done.

It also really sucks because now I am partaking in making someone else just as frustrated.

I have worked really hard at improving my tactics and damage dealing to try to improve my win rate. Unfortunately that only goes so far. I cannot honestly take on 5 - 12 other players and expect to carry the game. Especially if those players have any actual skill.

1 hour ago, DiddleDum said:

And, like in your example, you do just that.   It sucks to have five people shooting at you.   BUT, you are taking five ships' worth of guns off your teammates.   Kiting and having half the red team targeting you is a noble effort.   It just gets frustrating when your team cannot deliver.    For me, thinking I'm stalling the reds usually gives the game some purpose..... well, at least until I see the team counter, and our fleet has already lost five ships... and my priority target still shows five ships aiming at my butt.

I have done this as well. I will and have gladly taken agro to let my team try to pour damage on to the enemy team. I do try to find a silver lining, but it still does not make a steam rolled victory any less frustrating, especially when they happen in streaks.

Now, this has not been nearly as bad as WOT for the XBox, where I would find myself bottom tier and unable to do any damage to enemy tanks. I gave up that game with about 70 days of premium left when I went several nights in a row of this happening about every game.

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