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Ensign_Cthulhu

Flamu Talks RN Destroyers (bonus Jean Bart, Prinz Eitel Friedrich).

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I think I can see what WG is driving at with this line, and I don't mind it. (Note that he's not allowed to show us gameplay, in case you were hoping.)

My concerns regarding the British DD line are at an end.  I think this is going to be the first line I'm going to be keen to take all the way to Tier 10. Captain starts at Tier 2 and goes all the way to the top.

Can't wait until he's allowed to play them for us.

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No interest in RN DDs and the 2 BBs don't look good.

Jean Bart is looking set to prove again that bad guns = bad ship.

PE Freidrich sexy! Interesting! Stealthy! Tier 6 premium = automatic no.

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Still got a long ways left till RN DDs show up on the live server, so not having too high expectations yet. I am pretty positive however, though I won't grind on release cause saturation annoys me.

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That T8 UK DD has 8 km torps. It's going to be uptiered against powerful radar, and even at T7-8 all the radar outranges its torps. 

yeah right. 

 

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So far Zero interest on those British destroyers with those builds    

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11 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

That T8 UK DD has 8 km torps. It's going to be uptiered against powerful radar, and even at T7-8 all the radar outranges its torps. 

yeah right. 

 

Concealment, guns, agility. Be where the radar is not. Use hard cover vs. radar cruisers (radar might penetrate islands but guns do not). It's going to need a skilled captain who knows exactly how to play their ship, but I think it can be done.

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Why even speculate current stats when the ships are inevitably going to change prior to final release?

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By what magic is the citadel below the water on little Freddy? Don’t have to panic about the lack of turtleback at least. :Smile_amazed:

Edited by Sparviero

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1 minute ago, Ace_04 said:

Why even speculate current stats when the ships are inevitably going to change prior to final release?

Well yes, they might change. OTOH we now have ships actually floating in port rather than just drawings and numbers, and the general flavour of the line seems evident. That's what I think Flamu was trying to show. The only thing I can see them doing now, quite frankly, is tweaking figures around the edges because we've already had one MAJOR revision (removal of speed boost) and I'm not sure we're going to get more. 

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14 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Concealment, guns, agility. Be where the radar is not. Use hard cover vs. radar cruisers (radar might penetrate islands but guns do not). It's going to need a skilled captain who knows exactly how to play their ship, but I think it can be done.

“Be where the radar is not” that’s like telling me to sail where there isn’t water. It’s a “Let then eat cake” statement.

Hang back with the BBs for the first 10 minutes of the game?

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5 minutes ago, HazardDrake said:

“Be where the radar is not” that’s like telling me to sail where there isn’t water.

Not every game is going to serve up fifty gazillion radar cruisers on the enemy team. I've been in T8 top tier matches where there was only one. 

Yes, it's going to require excruciatingly good map awareness. Yes, you're probably going to be dead with your first major mistake. Yes, your map and spawn point might dictate whether you have a humdrum game or a great one. But not all your games are going to suck.

At the end of this, I expect to be a better destroyer player through the school of hard knocks. 

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So I think that the RN DDs are going to be the very definition of DEs (Destroyer Escort) they are slower but that would transfer to better speed economically/over distance at least in the real world (most of the top speeds listed in game are more sprint speeds and could not have been maintained for an extended period of time). They were designed to be convoy escorts and protect against U-boat attacks. They will probably end up working best in groups with other ships as a slightly forward scout and fire support. They will shred any DD that comes in close to torp their allied ships while launching their own torp attacks against already engaged targets or in ambushes. They will not be able to function well on their own due to their lower speeds. They can run with allies easily but they can't out run enemies very well. They will have to be careful not to over extend as it will be harder to recover. 

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26 minutes ago, Florendo19 said:

So I think that the RN DDs are going to be the very definition of DEs (Destroyer Escort)

I think this is what WG meant when they said they would be 'defensive' destroyers. Essentially you'll have to stick close to the main fleet to screen for enemy torpedoes and maybe that odd destroyer. Problem is there's no guarantee that your team will try to dodge the torpedoes or focus on those ships you do spot. Or whether they'll actually move towards objectives with you or head for the map corners. Sadly, because of their low speed they're going to be sub-par when it comes to capping when compared to the DDs of other nations. 

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1 minute ago, Noble_Taipan said:

Sadly, because of their low speed they're going to be sub-par when it comes to capping when compared to the DDs of other nations. 

Why? Because they don't get in there first?

First ship into the cap is not always the ship that takes the cap.

3 minutes ago, Noble_Taipan said:

Problem is there's no guarantee that your team will try to dodge the torpedoes or focus on those ships you do spot.

No, there isn't, but the least you can do is try.

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8 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Why? Because they don't get in there first?

First ship into the cap is not always the ship that takes the cap.

No, I'm referring to late game situations such as where a DD can sit in an enemy cap to prevent the enemy team scoring, for one example

Edited by Noble_Taipan

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12 minutes ago, Noble_Taipan said:

No, I'm referring to late game situations such as where a DD can sit in an enemy cap to prevent the enemy team scoring, for one example

These ships are going to be stealthy with hydro; depending on which DD is sitting in the enemy cap, it might do very badly when it gets jumped by a British destroyer. The gunfire at high tiers is going to be murderous, the torpedo patterns are going to be interesting, and woe betide you if you're a tech-tree Pan-Asian or an Asashio and can't torp back.

We shall just have to see what happens in testing. I have a fair idea already of what we might see, and who is or is not going to like them. It will be interesting to see if I am proved right.

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23 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Why? Because they don't get in there first?

First ship into the cap is not always the ship that takes the cap.

No, there isn't, but the least you can do is try.

but for the brit, its a one way trip. 

with that speed, getting out will be an endeavor.

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i would buy jean at tier8,but at tier9 it became a gimmick ship with a parameter that is extremely situational(AA).

the tier6 german BB looks great,nowadays i think that buying tier6 and 7 is better than buying tier8 nowadays.

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56 minutes ago, Florendo19 said:

They will probably end up working best in groups with other ships as a slightly forward scout and fire support.

This is a role that doesn't really exist in the game because no one wants to play that way.  You won't get much damage, and you won't cap, so you won't get any XP.  And its usually really boring. 

24 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Why? Because they don't get in there first?

First ship into the cap is not always the ship that takes the cap.

You're right, with radar dominated games there is no need to speed to your death.  However, if you happen to be a low radar count game then speed boosting to the cap in an effort to get there first, and before the enemy can properly support their DDs is a valid strategy.  That's not going to happen with the RN DDs.  You can only move up slow, and with a plenty of backup.

I see two really big problems with these DDs.  First, the low tier DDs have very slow turret rotation without the benefit of railguns like Russian bias ships.  With the shells being super floaty with bad turret rotation, I don't think these DDs will even be competitive. 

The issue with the high tier DDs and their speed.  The game has gone full radar to take away DD's concealment.  DDs only have speed left, and now WG is taking that too.  No thanks.  These ships also need IFHE, not a big problem given you get good reload.  Its still a limitation on builds. 

Fix the low tier turret rotation, and give these ships speed boost and they would be decent ships.  

 

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14 minutes ago, Slimeball91 said:

This is a role that doesn't really exist in the game because no one wants to play that way.  You won't get much damage, and you won't cap, so you won't get any XP.  And its usually really boring. 

No its really not. They tried to do the same thing with AA builds saying that some ships would be able to serve as AA escorts. Escorts are not true fleet combatants and the whole game is about fleet actions. They are almost purely defensive and no DD captain in this game at least will want to play a defensive game. I get that they are trying to give RN DDs a "flavor" but it does need to be tweaked in order for it to work in game. Good thing they are still testing it. I look forward to trying the finished product

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3 hours ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

I think I can see what WG is driving at with this line, and I don't mind it.

 

Tell that to jpn dd captains.

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3 hours ago, exray0 said:

 Freidrich sexy! Interesting! Stealthy! Tier 6 premium = automatic no.

The moment you understand this is a new Cesare you will change your opinion.

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The low tiers look rather poor, which is especially disappointing as many of them already have similar ships in game. Jervis and Icarus in particular look very unappealing at this point.

The Lightning I'm not sure on, the concealment is good but it really doesn't fit the 'meta' and while you can probably leverage it there's a point where it's 200% more effort for 20% better results.

The Jutland makes a series of trades with Fletcher, although Flamu was impressed by the main gun reload, Fletcher's is better, in fact DPM is 175k for Jutland, but not that far behind at 162k for Fletcher. If Fletcher spends the 3 points Jutland has to waste on IFHE on BFT the Fletcher has more output. Jutland really wins on fires/minute which is tricky to utilize and smoke-shooting in radar-land. Jutland has a good concealment edge which cannot be overstated, but 9.9km radar doesn't care if you have 5.5 or 5.8km concealment.

The 10km torps are ok, but 120s reload, 62kt to 10km vs. Fletcher's 106s reload, 66kt to 10.5km is just worse. 1.3km torpedo detection for the RN ship is slightly better than the 1.4km of the Fletcher, but the 15,533 damage is significantly less than the 19,033 of the Fletcher, especially if you plant one in a DD which seemed to be the idea of the line.

Daring does look interesting, not a great torpedo boat, great concealment but oh so slow. The hydro, we'll have to wait and see. The DPM is insane even with IFHE as is the fire chance - 7% with IFHE x 144 RPM vs. 5% x 120 RPM for Gearing, if you can get into smoke and get some sustained fire downrange you'll be quite the firebug.

 

I don't really like the direction the line is going in, 35kt Daring's going to 'hunt' the Shima which speed boosts to 42kt? Ok. I like speed boost for the acceleration, not just the speed, it's one of the fun things about destroyers, combining what WG seem to want us to think is good smoke plus lesser ability to bail from it? Can the RN DD even reach caps to contest them before the other DD's have capped them!? (they can but it's a disadvantage). If you want to 'screen' a fleet you have to get ahead of it, and you have a scant advantage over friendly battleships compared to most.

At low tiers hydro for speedboost isn't even a flavor as they simply don't get either. I guess after putting out the USN CL with 12 consumables each, WG think our credit wallets need a break?

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Daka Daka

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