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Gneisenau013

Ready Room Wednesdays - Supporting Fire

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*pictured: 40mm Bofors gun crew from USS Hornet at battlestations*

Do you provide adequate gunfire support for your destroyer screen?

Destroyers' primary mission is for scouting and securing objectives. Though some of them have adequate gunnery, their armor and weapons are no match for the heavy guns of cruisers and battleships.

They rely on the Fleet's cruisers, battleships, aircraft, and fellow destroyers to help them complete their mission and stay afloat to keep up the fight with the enemy.

When your destroyer is calling for help, can you lay down effective fire to keep them alive?

"There never is a convenient place to fight a war when the other man starts it." - Arleigh Burke, US Navy

#readyroomwednesday

#anchorsaweigh

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I think the trick is to be positioned in a way to provide that support, and the DD to have an out.

In a Cruiser it can be difficult to push up behind a DD too close in an open water cap because if the opposing DD spots you, and it will if it's going to the same cap, you're going to take major damage before you can retreat. If there is cover though, and you can get behind it, you can really aid your own DD in tipping a fight in his favor through just a few hits on a DD, or by just making the pressure so high they perform worse against your DD.

For a BB you need to be close enough to backup your Cruisers, and take some shots without being shot at by an overwhelming number of teams. This takes careful positioning, and knowing when to turn and get the heck out of dodge to repair back up all the way, and get back in the action. Knowing when to turn and pull back comes from experience, but if you're in a BB it is vitally important to playing your ship to consider your large HP pool + potential HP pool of your repairs, as a resource to be used to help win the battle.

 

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Support supports support in supporting support in supporting support that supports support

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The issues with providing with support is that:

 

1. The DD attempting to cap runs out, making you now the sole target.

2. The pounding you take until you can rotate out of danger is considerable.

Lighting up the DD with radar is useless unless there are other ships that can train guns on the illuminated target.

 

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I support my Destroyers sometimes alone, and sometimes with the team, we win the battle a lot more often, when it is the second way.

Edited by Sovereigndawg
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PSA: Supporting fire cannot save the destroyer from its own captain's mistakes. Don't know how many times a day I hear somebody complain about not getting support when they literally run into a cap and get broadside torped in smoke.

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I think I support most of my DD's in every ship I play in one simple quote by Willis Augustus Lee.   "Stand aside, I'm coming through"

Lots of times I feel the best way to support My Destroyers is to bring the focus onto myself and take the fight into my own hands.

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4 minutes ago, Edgecase said:

PSA: Supporting fire cannot save the destroyer from its own captain's mistakes. Don't know how many times a day I hear somebody complain about not getting support when they literally run into a cap and get broadside torped in smoke.

This is exactly right. So many DDs basically YOLO by running into the cap without giving the rest of the team time to get in position to provide good supporting fire. 

For myself I always keep my guns trained on the CAP when a DD enters it to provide counter DD fire. However I am usually in a CA so dont always have the range to provide counter CA/BB fire if they shoot at our DD. 

40 minutes ago, Vangm94 said:

Support supports support in supporting support in supporting support that supports support

We supporters support this message of support. 

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Speaking as a destroyer player, most cruisers and battleships seem more interested in hiding behind islands and waiting for me to do everything, than in actually helping me do it.

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1 hour ago, KiyoSenkan said:

Speaking as a destroyer player, most cruisers and battleships seem more interested in hiding behind islands and waiting for me to do everything, than in actually helping me do it.

I'm going to have to agree with this.

Although I have seen the case where CA's and BB's were in position to support a DD, but the DD refused to move into the cap, or spot the enemy DD.

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3 minutes ago, Chrighen said:

I'm going to have to agree with this.

Although I have seen the case where CA's and BB's were in position to support a DD, but the DD refused to move into the cap, or spot the enemy DD.

I can support with a DD, I cannot support a DD unless he is part of my division/clan. Unless that random player is good at communication, I am unlikely to support a DD because I have no clue what he will do. I can follow one and watch him hide behind islands while my own ship is put on fire because I cannot see the enemy. As a DD, I will make a smoke wall for you to give you some cover and I will stay in front of that wall for as long as I can to give you eyes on the enemy. 

As a CV, my eyes are your eyes. My Dive Bombers will find the enemy for you and they will shadow them. So no matter how much concealment, AA, or smoke, you will always have eyes on them for as long as my Dive Bombers can stay. I will sink the DDs as fast as I can because I know they are a huge danger to my BBs.

With DDs and CVs, I prefer to support because they won't get as much support as they should have.

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1 minute ago, Vangm94 said:

I can support with a DD, I cannot support a DD unless he is part of my division/clan. Unless that random player is good at communication, I am unlikely to support a DD because I have no clue what he will do. I can follow one and watch him hide behind islands while my own ship is put on fire because I cannot see the enemy. As a DD, I will make a smoke wall for you to give you some cover and I will stay in front of that wall for as long as I can to give you eyes on the enemy. 

Part of it is also one or neither party is willing to communicate. I think some people may just be afraid to try and shoot at a DD. I can't count the times I've been told by a BB that their salvo isn't worth wasting on a DD.

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3 minutes ago, Chrighen said:

Part of it is also one or neither party is willing to communicate. I think some people may just be afraid to try and shoot at a DD. I can't count the times I've been told by a BB that their salvo isn't worth wasting on a DD.

This is part of the reason I am willing to expose myself and be a decoy, in both DDs and CVs. DDs and CVs are both relatively easy to sink so I know they will want to shoot at me. One ship shooting at me is one less at my allies. I will always tell BBs, whether I am on the receiving end or not, to stop shooting me and to shoot at something they can hit. When I play Richelieu and there is a DD or a CA behind me, I will ignore them and let my Secondaries deal with them. It is not worth turning to shoot a target that I will probably miss at and instead focus on what ship is in front of me. I will always tell my allies to stop shooting or sailing against the enemy CV because it is a waste of time. Stop chasing it. I use the term "run-and-gun". Don't chase the CV (or any other ship), focus on your objective while shooting it. But I know that a majority of players will chase it.

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The problem with supporting DDs is it seems like there are 2 kinds of DD drivers. Those who really dont need your help at all (though they welcome it) and those who think they dont need your help & YOLO or rush the cap fire shots & hide behind an island being no help at all. 

I have gotten in the habit of telling DDs when we start a match to NOT fire their guns. Just get out in front & spot & wait until mid game when they can get theirs.  

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2 minutes ago, Vangm94 said:

This is part of the reason I am willing to expose myself and be a decoy, in both DDs and CVs. DDs and CVs are both relatively easy to sink so I know they will want to shoot at me. One ship shooting at me is one less at my allies. I will always tell BBs, whether I am on the receiving end or not, to stop shooting me and to shoot at something they can hit. When I play Richelieu and there is a DD or a CA behind me, I will ignore them and let my Secondaries deal with them. It is not worth turning to shoot a target that I will probably miss at and instead focus on what ship is in front of me. I will always tell my allies to stop shooting or sailing against the enemy CV because it is a waste of time. Stop chasing it. I use the term "run-and-gun". Don't chase the CV (or any other ship), focus on your objective while shooting it. But I know that a majority of players will chase it.

To a point I agree, don't chase ships. But the longer a DD stays alive, the more dangerous they get. If I have to use 2 salvos in a BB to ensure that the torpedo threat from that ship is gone, I do so. That allows my DD's to have an easier time spotting and torping the enemy team.

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1 minute ago, Chrighen said:

To a point I agree, don't chase ships. But the longer a DD stays alive, the more dangerous they get. If I have to use 2 salvos in a BB to ensure that the torpedo threat from that ship is gone, I do so. That allows my DD's to have an easier time spotting and torping the enemy team.

If the DD is close enough to me and my guns are already facing him, take the shot. Watching the guns turn a full 180 on the other hand... that is a different story.

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1 minute ago, Vangm94 said:

If the DD is close enough to me and my guns are already facing him, take the shot. Watching the guns turn a full 180 on the other hand... that is a different story.

If they are within torp range, I'm already trying to evade the torps they could have fired. By doing that I can usually get at least the front or back turrets in the general direction of the DD pretty quickly.

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7 minutes ago, Chrighen said:

If they are within torp range, I'm already trying to evade the torps they could have fired. By doing that I can usually get at least the front or back turrets in the general direction of the DD pretty quickly.

But my Asashio and Shimakaze are shooting from 20km away and my Fubuki is shooting from less than 6km away :fish_happy: If the DD is already seen, the DD already screwed up. I will typically runaway til my concealment returns to normal before turning around and going for a run. I will usually bait any player if I can get them to chase me. It's pretty amusing when I do though. Travel at 1/4 speed, shoot once, he looks at me, wait 20 seconds, dodge once or twice, repeat.

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2 minutes ago, Vangm94 said:

But my Asashio and Shimakaze are shooting from 20km away and my Fubuki is shooting from less than 6km away :fish_happy: If the DD is already seen, the DD already screwed up. I will typically runaway til my concealment returns to normal before turning around and going for a run. I will usually bait any player if I can get them to chase me. It's pretty amusing when I do though. Travel at 1/4 speed, shoot once, he looks at me, wait 20 seconds, dodge once or twice, repeat.

You're not wrong. But if a DD is seen and doesn't drop off before I can get a volley off, in either a CA or BB, I end up taking a significant portion of their health. Also playing DD's primarily, I would never chase a DD down, unless I was A) CA with Radar and Hydro, or B) in a gunboat DD.

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3 minutes ago, Chrighen said:

You're not wrong. But if a DD is seen and doesn't drop off before I can get a volley off, in either a CA or BB, I end up taking a significant portion of their health. Also playing DD's primarily, I would never chase a DD down, unless I was A) CA with Radar and Hydro, or B) in a gunboat DD.

:cap_fainting:You win

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I've been playing a lot of T8 IJN DD and CA's to finally finish a 19 pt CPT.....  I find that there are very few CPT's that seriously will "support" a DD......  At the first salvo in return, usually from another lone enemy DD, the friendly CA's and BB's run to cover leaving you alone...............and then, the enemy uses radar and you die without a single returned fire round from the ships "supporting" you !   Every day....all day....same thing.  "Support Kargero" :  bang  :  where'd everyone go?  :  Oh crap...RADAR......next match. 

Support is and means that the asset in contact "gets support until the mission is accomplished or the asset disengages..."  Their call.......  But, it takes guts to call for support and it takes 100% commitment to provide it....  We don't see this very often in the "pick-up" random games....  I would suspect because there aren't that many combat arms veterans that really understand the concept of calling for fire (support) and then, actually controlling them....

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I generally try to push up close enough to help a DD as long as it appears they are not rushing headlong to their death. Here's an example, in the first few minutes of this match.

But really it sorta depends on whether there is any cover, who else is around, and the overall threat level. A DD captain who insists on pushing in against overwhelming odds can only expect so much, right?

Respects,

Am

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In Ranked, I try to shoot at enemy destroyers that have been spotted even in the early stages of battle. While difficult to hit at long range, they turn when they see an incoming salvo of battleship AP. That can give some space for the friendly DD to re-position or push an objective that they previously couldn't with an enemy DD in the area.

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