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Acaibaero

I'm done with the USS Buffalo

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Dear WG:

When I heard that this ship was coming into the game I was super excited.  I loved, loved, loved my Cleveland at T6 and was stoked for what the Buffalo would do!  So much so that I went through the grind to get the Baltimore so I could get the Buffalo.   And believe it or not, I liked the Baltimore at T9.  But the Buffalo is not viable at T9 with a 13s reload.  It's just not.  When I can get the Des Moines, I will sell the Buffalo to pay for it.  Maybe I'll sell it and get the Helena instead.  Who knows!

I'm sorry WG, I really am, I wanted to love this ship.  Getting the extra turret is great and all, but not at the expense of T6/7 reload times.   Sure, If I can keep a broadside open to use all turrets it's less of an issue.  But realistically, who can do that?  Sure there are moments when it's viable but you're going to pay for being broadside or even kiting out in the open.  Heck, I can't even go bow-in without getting a citidel hit.  They can't overmatch my bow but somehow they're able to drop them in between my turrets!   The entire US CA line depends on bow-in island hugging to be successful which makes that extra turret pretty much worthless much of the time and that reload time makes any knife fight a joke. 

A 4-1 fire rate against a Des Moines or Wooooster, or even a 2-1 against a Hindenburg with those hard-hitting 203s puts the Buffalo at an extreme disadvantage.    My god even the new Harugumo (have you been watching this thing decimate ships?!) will out gun it.  Ok, that might be an exaggeration but you get my point.

Oh, but those are T10s you say!  Let's look at some others:

USS Seattle: 6.5s (3-1)

USS Cleveland: 6.5s (3-1)

USS Helena: 10s (2-1)

Chapayev: 8s (2-1) 152s!

Roon: 13s (1-1) 203s!

Hipper: 11s (2-1) 203s!

Myoko: 14s (1-2) 203s!

Mogami: 10s (2-1) 155s!

Ibuki: 15s (1-2) 203s!

Martel: 12s (2-1) 203s!

Saint-Louis: 10s (2-1) 203s!

"But, but, Acai!  It has 10.4km detection!" you say.  Pfff...  The over-abundance of radar has changed the game play (not that I'm complaining about that) and people have learned to flank to spot and then everybody and their brother focus-fires you.  Well, that's my experience anyway. YMMV. :)   That is probably the one good thing about the proliferation of radar, it has changed how people play the game!  But I digress. 

Yes, the detection is great, but not when you are out-spotted by a khabarovsk who has support, availability of hydro,or the proliferation of radar.  Look, the detection allows you to get to an island, but nothing more.  You're on your own after that.  The Des Moines and like ships can hold a position on an island because of DPM, the Buffalo cannot.   Or I can go silent while kiting and slip away.  Yep, play smart and you can escape with some health intact that is for sure, but you do that at the expense of DPM.  It's not a win-win.

It can't knife-fight, it can't be broadside, it can't kite, and it doesn't have the range or shell velocity to be a Donskoi or Moskva.  In your mind, what was the purpose of this ship?  Provide mid-range scouting and keeping the guns silent?  It seems like you designed it sit on the bench for the first half and come in and mop up late in the game. 

So soon I'll be saying good-bye to my beloved Buffalo.  If someone could post a meme of that guy walking with 1 girl and looking at the other, pls put the USS Buffalo on the current GF, and USS Helena on the other for me, that'd be great.

 

If you have some advice for me, I'm happy to take it.  If you're going to tell me to "get-good", save it and move along to another thread. 

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1 hour ago, Acaibaero said:

it can't kite

It can actually, it's much better at it than the DM, and I feel like this is the best way to play it, some open water kiting with opportunistic island usage.  I don't understand why people think they need to play the Buffalo like a DM, it has different strengths and weaknesses.  Yeah, if you can use islands to your advantage to stay unspotted then definitely do it, but Buffalo isn't as reliant on them as the DM is, and you lose a bit of firepower if this is the way you choose to play it.  You just can't let yourself get into a position where you're the focus-fire or you're at close range on most ships, and this is true of most cruisers, it isn't unique to the Buffalo.  You're also tunnel-visioned on reload and ignoring a lot of other factors.  Doing a lot of fire rate comparisons with light cruisers is a poor comparison to make. 

Ibuki, Saint-Louis, Roon and Donskoi are its peers, and by comparison it's in the same ballgame that they are, and it definitely is not worse than the T7 or T8 cruisers by any stretch.  The T9s are in an awkward position relative to how strong the T10 cruisers are, but that's not really their fault, that's T9 in general.  Ibuki has 15s reload with 10 guns, Buffalo has 13s reload with 12 guns, Donskoi has 12.5s reload with 12 guns (and needs IFHE because 180mm), Saint-Louis has 10s reload with 9 guns, and Roon has 11s reload with 9 guns (albeit with baked-in IFHE).

As far as skills, Expert Loader comes in really handy with it (especially if you use one of the special commanders) so you are able to opportunistically punish broadsides with the AP that you'd normally miss because of the longer reload.  If you only really bother using HE with it, you're losing out on a big strength of the ship.

 

Edited by Deviathan
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So, let's call it the Beefalo.  Part cow, part buffalo.  Loafs around like a cow, hits like a wild buffalo.

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26k more & the DM will be mine and the Buffalo just a bad memory.  Every time I play it, I keep wishing I had the T9 Baltimore back!

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11 minutes ago, jason199506 said:

what's all the three minus one/one minus two? 

 

My understanding is he is trying to claim that those ships fire at a rate of 2 to 1 or 3 to 1.  Obviously, this is a gross exaggeration to illustrate his point since none of those ships are even close to that.

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30 minutes ago, Deviathan said:

As far as skills, Expert Loader comes in really handy with it (especially if you use one of the special commanders) so you are able to opportunistically punish broadsides with the AP that you'd normally miss because of the longer reload.

How 'bout switching ammo on every salvo to cut reload time in half?

 

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Just now, iDuckman said:

How 'bout switching ammo on every salvo to cut reload time in half?

 

I like to call this the Disco Buffalo.  Now I just need to figure out how to load AP in half of my guns and HE in the other half at the same time.

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1 hour ago, Acaibaero said:

In your mind, what was the purpose of this ship? 

To prove the inferiority of Capitalism comrade!

I've driven Buff in several Randoms and she didn't seem bad to me. Hell, I do better with Buffalo than I do with Des Moines.

Edited by ReddNekk

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57 minutes ago, real_icebeast said:

My understanding is he is trying to claim that those ships fire at a rate of 2 to 1 or 3 to 1.  Obviously, this is a gross exaggeration to illustrate his point since none of those ships are even close to that.

Ya'll have good points.  Kiting can be good or bad.  You can successfully kite against another player - for a while anyway.  But if someone else sees you, they'll take a poke at you from across the map!  

Regarding fire rates.   You're correct, it is the fire rate comparisons.  For example, the des moines can fire 4 times for every 1 salvo of the Buffalo.  Not sure how that's a gross exaggeration.  It's math.  Are you saying that the Des Moines cannot fire 4 salvos in 13 seconds? 

 

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1 hour ago, Shadowrigger1 said:

Don't list the Seattle,  it's another T9 Pile of Feces  on par with the Buffalo.

most of the ships he listed arent even viable comparisons considering they arent 203mm guns, with the exception of the st louis, charles martel and roon. Other than those few, the ships he listed arnet even good.

 

the first real laugh i had was him favoring the Ibuki, meanwhile its the worst t9 CA in game.

OP has no idea what hes on about. he hasnt played a single game in any of the ships he listed except the ARP myoko, and hes only got 7 battles in that. He has literally no clue how any of those ships play.

 

2 hours ago, Acaibaero said:

it can't kite,

 

1 hour ago, Deviathan said:

It can actually, it's much better at it than the DM, and I feel like this is the best way to play it, some open water kiting with opportunistic island usage.  I don't understand why people think they need to play the Buffalo like a DM, it has different strengths and weaknesses.  Yeah, if you can use islands to your advantage to stay unspotted then definitely do it, but Buffalo isn't as reliant on them as the DM is, and you lose a bit of firepower if this is the way you choose to play it.  You just can't let yourself get into a position where you're the focus-fire or you're at close range on most ships, and this is true of most cruisers, it isn't unique to the Buffalo.  You're also tunnel-visioned on reload and ignoring a lot of other factors.  Doing a lot of fire rate comparisons with light cruisers is a poor comparison to make. 

Ibuki, Saint-Louis, Roon and Donskoi are its peers, and by comparison it's in the same ballgame that they are, and it definitely is not worse than the T7 or T8 cruisers by any stretch.  The T9s are in an awkward position relative to how strong the T10 cruisers are, but that's not really their fault, that's T9 in general.  Ibuki has 15s reload with 10 guns, Buffalo has 13s reload with 12 guns, Donskoi has 12.5s reload with 12 guns (and needs IFHE because 180mm), Saint-Louis has 10s reload with 9 guns, and Roon has 11s reload with 9 guns (albeit with baked-in IFHE).

As far as skills, Expert Loader comes in really handy with it (especially if you use one of the special commanders) so you are able to opportunistically punish broadsides with the AP that you'd normally miss because of the longer reload.  If you only really bother using HE with it, you're losing out on a big strength of the ship.

 

this guy has it right.

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36 minutes ago, Acaibaero said:

Ya'll have good points.  Kiting can be good or bad.  You can successfully kite against another player - for a while anyway.  But if someone else sees you, they'll take a poke at you from across the map!  

Regarding fire rates.   You're correct, it is the fire rate comparisons.  For example, the des moines can fire 4 times for every 1 salvo of the Buffalo.  Not sure how that's a gross exaggeration.  It's math.  Are you saying that the Des Moines cannot fire 4 salvos in 13 seconds? 

 

5.5*4=13?????????

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Buffalo is one of the best T9 cruisers. A great ship and keeper.

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12 minutes ago, Aiser50 said:

Buffalo is one of the best T9 cruisers. A great ship and keeper.

Rofl it blows

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26 minutes ago, Hanger_18 said:

OP has no idea what hes on about. he hasnt played a single game in any of the ships he listed except the ARP myoko, and hes only got 7 battles in that. He has literally no clue how any of those ships play.

  Uh, yes, I have.  I have both the Russian and US cruiser lines so instead of rushing to my stats to try to shame me, and doing a poor job of it, why not add some constructive criticism to your post.  I get that I don't know it all and can get some stats wrong.  At least Deviathan's post can correct me in a manner that is helpful.  Get over yourself. 

Reading comprehension is your friend.  I'm not comparing playing styles, I'm comparing rates of fire and I'm trying pretty hard to figure out how to make this thing successful and haven't had luck island camping, knifing, and only limited success kiting.  

And Jason's right, I got the Des Moines reload time wrong (not sure why I was thinking 4s but whatever), but the point still stands - it out DPMs you in a huge way. 

If you want to be in the forums, don't look for opportunities ridicule and shame people, show them where they're wrong and offer some advice.  If you don't understand my point, which I can understand, then ask me to clarify.  Don't jump to your own wrong conclusion and try to berate me.  Trying to show how superior you are can sometimes make you look like the fool you're trying to make someone else out to be.  It's a gaming community not a highschool.  Head back to WoT if you want to be caustic.

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1 hour ago, Acaibaero said:

Ya'll have good points.  Kiting can be good or bad.  You can successfully kite against another player - for a while anyway.  But if someone else sees you, they'll take a poke at you from across the map!  

Regarding fire rates.   You're correct, it is the fire rate comparisons.  For example, the des moines can fire 4 times for every 1 salvo of the Buffalo.  Not sure how that's a gross exaggeration.  It's math.  Are you saying that the Des Moines cannot fire 4 salvos in 13 seconds? 

 

You argue that Hipper's 11s is 2:1, when clearly 13:11.  13:11 is not close to 2:1.  Similarly, you argue that Cleveland is 3:1 with 6.5s reload when it is clearly 2:1.  These are the exaggerations I'm referring to.

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2 hours ago, iDuckman said:

How 'bout switching ammo on every salvo to cut reload time in half?

 

what? You don't get the ammo switching reload bonus if you shoot the shells.

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4 hours ago, Acaibaero said:

Dear WG:

When I heard that this ship was coming into the game I was super excited.  I loved, loved, loved my Cleveland at T6 and was stoked for what the Buffalo would do!  So much so that I went through the grind to get the Baltimore so I could get the Buffalo.   And believe it or not, I liked the Baltimore at T9.  But the Buffalo is not viable at T9 with a 13s reload.  It's just not.  When I can get the Des Moines, I will sell the Buffalo to pay for it.  Maybe I'll sell it and get the Helena instead.  Who knows!

I'm sorry WG, I really am, I wanted to love this ship.  Getting the extra turret is great and all, but not at the expense of T6/7 reload times.   Sure, If I can keep a broadside open to use all turrets it's less of an issue.  But realistically, who can do that?  Sure there are moments when it's viable but you're going to pay for being broadside or even kiting out in the open.  Heck, I can't even go bow-in without getting a citidel hit.  They can't overmatch my bow but somehow they're able to drop them in between my turrets!   The entire US CA line depends on bow-in island hugging to be successful which makes that extra turret pretty much worthless much of the time and that reload time makes any knife fight a joke. 

A 4-1 fire rate against a Des Moines or Wooooster, or even a 2-1 against a Hindenburg with those hard-hitting 203s puts the Buffalo at an extreme disadvantage.    My god even the new Harugumo (have you been watching this thing decimate ships?!) will out gun it.  Ok, that might be an exaggeration but you get my point.

Oh, but those are T10s you say!  Let's look at some others:

USS Seattle: 6.5s (3-1)

USS Cleveland: 6.5s (3-1)

USS Helena: 10s (2-1)

Chapayev: 8s (2-1) 152s!

Roon: 13s (1-1) 203s!

Hipper: 11s (2-1) 203s!

Myoko: 14s (1-2) 203s!

Mogami: 10s (2-1) 155s!

Ibuki: 15s (1-2) 203s!

Martel: 12s (2-1) 203s!

Saint-Louis: 10s (2-1) 203s!

"But, but, Acai!  It has 10.4km detection!" you say.  Pfff...  The over-abundance of radar has changed the game play (not that I'm complaining about that) and people have learned to flank to spot and then everybody and their brother focus-fires you.  Well, that's my experience anyway. YMMV. :)   That is probably the one good thing about the proliferation of radar, it has changed how people play the game!  But I digress. 

Yes, the detection is great, but not when you are out-spotted by a khabarovsk who has support, availability of hydro,or the proliferation of radar.  Look, the detection allows you to get to an island, but nothing more.  You're on your own after that.  The Des Moines and like ships can hold a position on an island because of DPM, the Buffalo cannot.   Or I can go silent while kiting and slip away.  Yep, play smart and you can escape with some health intact that is for sure, but you do that at the expense of DPM.  It's not a win-win.

It can't knife-fight, it can't be broadside, it can't kite, and it doesn't have the range or shell velocity to be a Donskoi or Moskva.  In your mind, what was the purpose of this ship?  Provide mid-range scouting and keeping the guns silent?  It seems like you designed it sit on the bench for the first half and come in and mop up late in the game. 

So soon I'll be saying good-bye to my beloved Buffalo.  If someone could post a meme of that guy walking with 1 girl and looking at the other, pls put the USS Buffalo on the current GF, and USS Helena on the other for me, that'd be great.

 

If you have some advice for me, I'm happy to take it.  If you're going to tell me to "get-good", save it and move along to another thread. 

I agree with you in principle about Buffalo. It is a strange ship that doesn't play like the rest of the US CA line after Pensacola.  I think it is a sound ship on T9. It can outmuscle all of its competitors especially with the US autobounce angles and the SHS shells, but it has to pay for that by showing more side than any other USN CA after Pensacola. That's just payment for a T10 CA alpha strike on T9.T10s, however,  are just flat out better. I agree with you again that once you have DM, there is really no reason to keep Buffalo. DM is a straight-up upgrade across the board. I've had DM for ages. When Buffalo came out I tried it. The alpha strikes are fun, but I can't think of a reason to use this over DM especially since they tend to see the same opponents. A lot of that is the problem of T9. Nothing special happens on that tier - no ranked or clan that I am aware of. It really just exists because you need a 9 before 10, and most of the paper designs there are just stepping stones to T10 in the game. Izumo is pointless when you get to Yamato. Ibuki, Seattle, Roon, FdG, etc. are all in the same boat (pun intended). It's not a problem unique to Buffalo. 

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3 hours ago, Shadowrigger1 said:

Don't list the Seattle,  it's another T9 Pile of Feces  on par with the Buffalo.

That's insulting the buffalo. Seattle is far far worse than buffalo could ever hope to be. Buffallo's only real issue is DPM. Seattle has far worse issues. And then there is the shitpile that is Ibuki. Buffalo cant compare to the sheer level of bad that Seattle and Ibuki bring to the table.

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41 minutes ago, real_icebeast said:

You argue that Hipper's 11s is 2:1, when clearly 13:11. 

And Hipper has 2 fewer guns...

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4 minutes ago, ryuukei8569 said:

That's insulting the buffalo. Seattle is far far worse than buffalo could ever hope to be. Buffallo's only real issue is DPM. Seattle has far worse issues. And then there is the shitpile that is Ibuki. Buffalo cant compare to the sheer level of bad that Seattle and Ibuki bring to the table.

I stand in shame for my blasphemy !..  Booofalooo   is the steamy pile you have After a night of dining in a 5 star restaurant.      Seattle is after Taco Bell, and Ibuki..  That's the pile of turd after you've eaten the Boofattle turd.

Edited by Shadowrigger1
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50 minutes ago, Acaibaero said:

 

  Uh, yes, I have.  I have both the Russian and US cruiser lines so instead of rushing to my stats to try to shame me, and doing a poor job of it, why not add some constructive criticism to your post.  I get that I don't know it all and can get some stats wrong.  At least Deviathan's post can correct me in a manner that is helpful.  Get over yourself. 

Reading comprehension is your friend.  I'm not comparing playing styles, I'm comparing rates of fire and I'm trying pretty hard to figure out how to make this thing successful and haven't had luck island camping, knifing, and only limited success kiting.  

And Jason's right, I got the Des Moines reload time wrong (not sure why I was thinking 4s but whatever), but the point still stands - it out DPMs you in a huge way. 

If you want to be in the forums, don't look for opportunities ridicule and shame people, show them where they're wrong and offer some advice.  If you don't understand my point, which I can understand, then ask me to clarify.  Don't jump to your own wrong conclusion and try to berate me.  Trying to show how superior you are can sometimes make you look like the fool you're trying to make someone else out to be.  It's a gaming community not a highschool.  Head back to WoT if you want to be caustic.

i didnt stat shame you if i wanted to do that id point out some low WR ship or something...

 

but if you for a moment think the Ibuki is better because of the reload time, thats a red flag.

if you compare the reload to ships that have different caliber guns, thats a red flag.

If you compare it to a line of ships that you've never even touched, thats a red flag.

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