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BaronVonTom

Playing Shima and Gearing with Radar in Divisions

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So with all the posts lately on dd play with radar, here is what we started doing playing in a division of 3 Shimas and the next battle a division of 2 Gearings.  We don't take the cap, we CLEAR the cap, and trust me, when you see a spread like below, you do clear the cap.   We can take the cap almost always after clearing it.  In this case, we hit the dd with 1 torp and he left in a hurry.  We took the cap and moved on to the next one.  We stay together and were able to kill a gearing with the guns of 2 shimas.    Here is the initial clearing spread and the battle results of all 3 shimas.  Nothing quite like seeing 45 torps spread out through the entire cap.  It is a beauuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuutiful sight to behold.  

unknown.png?width=973&height=548

 

unknown.png?width=973&height=548

 

We do the same thing in the Gearing with 13 or 10 mile torps:  

Wanted to show the dd players this because in my opinion, there is a way to play with radar in the game.  You just have to know, at all times, where the radar ships are and don't get over aggressive with your dd at battle start.  Both the Shima battle and the Gearing battle we won, I wasn;t killed in the first one, but was at the end of the 2nd one due to my own stupidity and over confidence.  In this Gearing battle, the other team lemming trained and that made us drool on our keyboards.....we stayed 10-12 miles back (outside of the radar range) with the 13 mile torps and just shot spreads of torps at the enemy.....I had 12 torp hits and my division member had 5 hits.  Only 2 kills this battle between us but flooding damage galore.   With the 10 mile torps, you have to be extra careful you don't get too close to those pesky radar rats. 

image.thumb.png.434770dc217e6ae09cfd558fef734e93.png

 

Bottom line guys:  Know the radar and the ranges.....and division up with your clan mates in dd's.  It is one helluva lot of fun and you can wreak total havoc once you get the hang of your strategy against the radar.  Communication within the division is KEY!  Sooooooooooooooooooo......division up with clan mates using the same dd's and let the torps FLY and the guns shoot straight!  Too many of the dd players are dying too quickly because they are over aggressive at battle start!

image.png

Edited by BaronVonTom
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Myself and a friend of mine did the 2 gearing div on land of fire a while back, went to A and held back their main push by flooding the area with torps, getting hits from those trying to make a play to grab the cap, well done it must have been a sight with all those torps, just like the good ole days of shimas.

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3 minutes ago, CriMiNaL__ said:

Myself and a friend of mine did the 2 gearing div on land of fire a while back, went to A and held back their main push by flooding the area with torps, getting hits from those trying to make a play to grab the cap, well done it must have been a sight with all those torps, just like the good ole days of shimas.

It was and is now.  Can't see it in the above post, but there were 5 total ships trying to get into b.....they quickly left and only one shows above.  It's a riot to do, but you have to be watching everything with all this radar now.  Awesome to see others doing it. 

Edited by BaronVonTom

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1 hour ago, BaronVonTom said:

So with all the posts lately on dd play with radar, here is what we started doing playing in a division of 3 Shimas and the next battle a division of 2 Gearings.  We don't take the cap, we CLEAR the cap, and trust me, when you see a spread like below, you do clear the cap.   We can take the cap almost always after clearing it.  In this case, we hit the dd with 1 torp and he left in a hurry.  We took the cap and moved on to the next one.  We stay together and were able to kill a gearing with the guns of 2 shimas.    Here is the initial clearing spread and the battle results of all 3 shimas.  Nothing quite like seeing 45 torps spread out through the entire cap.  It is a beauuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuutiful sight to behold.  

unknown.png?width=973&height=548

 

unknown.png?width=973&height=548

 

We do the same thing in the Gearing with 13 or 10 mile torps:  

"Torpedo Soup"

This is actually a very valid tactic.  I play a lot of Cruisers.  DM for instance is my favored Tier X Cruiser and when I division, she has typically been the choice for me.

 

Radar goes out only so far, and even if a Division DD drops smoke so I can enter the cap with my USN Radar Cruiser, Radar only goes so far.  There's big pro's and con's to a DD dropping smoke for a Radar Cruiser to do this, and the torpedo swarm is a good counter, even if I have Hydro running.  Just got to be careful though if it's a RU Cruiser like Chapayev, Moskva, D.Donskoi, Kronshtadt with the long range Radar, but theirs doesn't last as long.  It's the long active time possible on US & RN Cruisers that kill DDs.  The RU Cruisers tend to be spotted a long ways off also.

 

The torp tactic however I can see run into some problems if a coordinated DD-Radar Cruiser team are persistent.  You drop the torps, clear out the Cruiser away from the cap, but he can turn back around towards the cap knowing your torps are now on a long CD.

 

However, DD-Radar Cruiser divisions are pretty uncommon.  Random DDs never support Radar Cruisers with smoke so they can actually help the DDs even more.

 

So it all works out in a twisted way.  Like some BBs throw tons of shells to solve problems (Lyon), a swarm of fish lets the other side know that they got a lot of DDs to deal with and that greatly affects what people are willing to risk against that.  What often happens is 1 DD going that way with a bunch of scared players 15km behind him.  He sees all those torps and knows he is badly outnumbered at the cap.

"F--k this," is what he's thinking, and I can't blame him.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway
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10 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

"Torpedo Soup"

This is actually a very valid tactic.  I play a lot of Cruisers.  DM for instance is my favored Tier X Cruiser and when I division, she has typically been the choice for me.

 

Radar goes out only so far, and even if a Division DD drops smoke so I can enter the cap with my USN Radar Cruiser, Radar only goes so far.  There's big pro's and con's to a DD dropping smoke for a Radar Cruiser to do this, and the torpedo swarm is a good counter, even if I have Hydro running.  Just got to be careful though if it's a RU Cruiser like Chapayev, Moskva, D.Donskoi, Kronshtadt with the long range Radar, but theirs doesn't last as long.  It's the long active time possible on US & RN Cruisers that kill DDs.  The RU Cruisers tend to be spotted a long ways off also.

 

The torp tactic however I can see run into some problems if a coordinated DD-Radar Cruiser team are persistent.  You drop the torps, clear out the Cruiser away from the cap, but he can turn back around towards the cap knowing your torps are now on a long CD.

 

However, DD-Radar Cruiser divisions are pretty uncommon.  Random DDs never support Radar Cruisers with smoke so they can actually help the DDs even more.

 

So it all works out in a twisted way.  Like some BBs throw tons of shells to solve problems (Lyon), a swarm of fish lets the other side know that they got a lot of DDs to deal with and that greatly affects what people are willing to risk against that.  What often happens is 1 DD going that way with a bunch of scared players 15km behind him.  He sees all those torps and knows he is badly outnumbered at the cap.

"F--k this," is what he's thinking, and I can't blame him.

Totally agree.....we do pay close attention at battle start to enemy divisions and what they are comprised of.  The big thing is getting the radar cruisers  and dd's out of there.  In the pic above there were actually 5 ships total just outside the cap (one a radar cruiser)....the dd in the cap that got hit with one torp spotted the torps and they all turned and ran which is why only one ship is showing.  I don't see too many cruiser/dd divisions at tier 10 during the day, maybe there are more of them at night.  Your post is a good one for all dd players to take caution with and maybe a hint that more clans should try playing radar cruiser/dd together.

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17 hours ago, BaronVonTom said:

Wanted to show the dd players this because in my opinion, there is a way to play with radar in the game.  You just have to know, at all times, where the radar ships are and don't get over aggressive with your dd at battle start. 

 I wish people would stop writing as if those of us who think all the radar is a bad idea don't know how to play it.

The issue is NOT skill. It's whether all this radar is good for game play. 

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7 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

 I wish people would stop writing as if those of us who think all the radar is a bad idea don't know how to play it.

The issue is NOT skill. It's whether all this radar is good for game play. 

You are correct. I despise what it has done to the game. 

I’m running an experiment with my YY and CM. I have radar on both. I tell my team mates I have radar, going to Cap X and be ready. 

First of all, they run each other over to provide support- going to get free shots at range on a capping red DD after all - and the other team’s radar cruisers aren’t in place in time to light me up. I then proceed to wreck the poor sod that came into cap with me and doesn’t realize for three salvos that he’s lit. I’m 8-3 doing this, with at lease one cap and one kill in each game. 

Seems like it’s this or the Khaba to survive in upper tier DD play, now. No radar or rail guns? Best go home.

I need a shower. 

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I wonder how long before WoWS/WG determines you can no longer div two of the same ship type... hmm.... :cap_hmm:

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2 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

I wonder how long before WoWS/WG determines you can no longer div two of the same ship type... hmm.... :cap_hmm:

Funny you should mention that.  We had heard they were doing away with the 3 shima allowance (I dont recall where we heard that).  Apparently, that was just a rumor because it is still allowed.  3 Haida's is also quite fun at tier 7.

 

 

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43 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

 I wish people would stop writing as if those of us who think all the radar is a bad idea don't know how to play it.

The issue is NOT skill. It's whether all this radar is good for game play. 

I totally agree with you on the radar, way too much of it and more new ships will have it?  Eventually, too many ships will have it and dd's will go into the trash can.  For now, have to find ways around it.

Edited by BaronVonTom

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2 hours ago, BaronVonTom said:

Bottom line guys:  Know the radar and the ranges

This ^ and also the duration.

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it takes 3 shimas to kill one gearing. even after one torp hits it. 

 

..and there's nothing wrong with shima some say. lulz. 

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2 hours ago, BaronVonTom said:

Totally agree.....we do pay close attention at battle start to enemy divisions and what they are comprised of.  The big thing is getting the radar cruisers  and dd's out of there.  In the pic above there were actually 5 ships total just outside the cap (one a radar cruiser)....the dd in the cap that got hit with one torp spotted the torps and they all turned and ran which is why only one ship is showing.  I don't see too many cruiser/dd divisions at tier 10 during the day, maybe there are more of them at night.  Your post is a good one for all dd players to take caution with and maybe a hint that more clans should try playing radar cruiser/dd together.

For us the most effective division was BB-DD-Radar Cruiser.  The BB keeps Cruisers honest, but the DD & Radar Cruiser need to work more tightly.  But Radar Cruiser + 2 DDs is a strong one.  I had the pleasure yesterday of doing my Worcester with Gearing + Z-52 in a Division.  The combinations out there are scary.  The counter are long range torps like Gearing and Shimakaze that flood the caps.  I mentioned that already, as well as the problem that the Radar Cruiser comes back again.  But then it can become a game of wills.  Gearing and Shimakaze can keep dropping torps out of radar range to cover the caps.  That's easy.  Just flood the areas past the edge of the cap with torps.  Even with Hydro running on my DM, Worcester, or old IX Baltimore, it's not a comfortable feeling dealing with torps on a mass scale.  If I position aggressively inside the cap, even DM / Worcester / Minotaur Radar can just reach the edge.  Any further to get Radar well past the other cap edge is extremely risky, and not even Div DDs want to risk going too far out there to drop smoke for me.

 

Anyways, the typical DD + Radar Cruiser game at a cap is almost always effective enough in typical Randoms, especially when there's no opposing coordination, few DDs.  It's typically 1-2 uncoordinated, undivisioned DDs at best, with no support of their own (LOL their own Radar Cruisers are 15km away with the BBs), and we always drive them off no problem.  We kill a DD if lucky.  But if the opposition is coordinated for cap contesting, then things definitely get interesting.

 

But as you said, it's uncommon for such things.  You are more likely to find BB x3, Long Range Cruiser like Hindy x2 + 1 DD, or even a Triple DD Division before you see Radar Cruiser + DD mix.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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3 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Random DDs never support Radar Cruisers with smoke so they can actually help the DDs even more.

That's something I need to add to the list of things I need to start doing.

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Claims to have found a way to play DDs around all the radar.

Posts a game with a single enemy radar.

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The problem i have flooding caps with torps in random is the team, as in more often than not we end up going for three caps. Probably my fault though as I do not charge or speed boost into caps these days. Radar/hydro/planes tend to make it unprofitable for my ship. Also, initial load time means you have to wait for the torps to load. Boost to cap and guess what? "No torps aren't ready yet sir... another 30 seconds..."

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9 hours ago, grumpymunky said:

Claims to have found a way to play DDs around all the radar.

Posts a game with a single enemy radar.

Did you know there are some torpedoes that actually exceed Radar range?  It boggles the mind.

 

Let's say you got 3 Worcesters working the edge of that cap.  How is their Radar going to stop the torpedo wall from Gearing, Shimakaze that can drop outside their Radar range, to clear the cap?  It's not like they're about to run out of torpedoes, either.

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