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Herr_Reitz

Another Your Nutz Herr_Reitz thread - Match Making

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I am into the five digit game count now. I've heard and read it all regarding match making. It's just purely random. Pure coincidence. I even remember how some folks describe it as the odds changing due to the loss of a ship. All makes sense. All sounds reasonable. Mathematics, everything logical, sure - good explanations. 

Suppose for a moment you got totally surprised by a red ship, got nuked out of the game. At the exact same time the same type/class ship also gets nuked. Both teams, simultaneously, are down the same ship. Now you stay in the game so you can follow the ship play. And what do you see when it's been a day or two of loss after loss?

You see your team mates doing things even dumber than what you did to get nuked early. Not just one player but a bunch of players. Today, in multiple games on different maps, I saw three to five ships drive north so far as to take themselves out of the battle. Not one game, not two games but at least three. What's the odds of similar play style across three different matches and maps? 

So do you suppose there are any values we don't know about that assist in building teams for random battles? I'm truly curious. It's as if when I'm off my game, so is everyone else on the team. We, as a group, are all off our game. We look like headless chickens running amok or pebbles rolling downhill towards the boulders, hoping to damage them. 

I'd also like to know - when the really good players are on a team, what do you say to your team mates to encourage them towards victory. Yes, I'm being serious. 

Finally - I'd like to know why nobody has yet create a "WoWS Masters series". You know, the experts, the unicums if you like, get together, put together all their techniques, tips and knowledge in an easy to understand format. I'm hoping we could all learn how to get "off the rail" of the downside teams and perhaps carry harder if needed. 

PS: I'm hopeful this stays friendly and civil - thanks! 

tiafyc

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There's no way to escape the 8 out of 12 men loser teams vs the 8 out of 12 men pros from dover, I'm wondering does Karma have any roll in it? Does online purchases have any roll in it? I have witnessed what seemed to be some really rigged matches that seemed to "benefit" the elite well-known players in this game. Stacked teams for a duck shoot. I don't know how it works matchmaker wise, but I have a testimony something seems a little shady in some of the matches.

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1 minute ago, StudebacherHoch said:

Does online purchases have any roll in it?

Get the tinfoil hat off your head. This is not that sort of game, and you are skirting close to a libel lawsuit (or possibly the deletion of your account) if you keep on making that accusation.

2 minutes ago, StudebacherHoch said:

I have witnessed what seemed to be some really rigged matches that seemed to "benefit" the elite well-known players in this game. Stacked teams for a duck shoot.

The elite players win BECAUSE they're elite, because they're good enough to butcher almost anyone else you send up against them. I've seen high-ranked battles between two unicum teams end in a one-sided slaughter. This game is not rigged. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Get the tinfoil hat off your head. This is not that sort of game, and you are skirting close to a libel lawsuit (or possibly the deletion of your account) if you keep on making that accusation.

The elite players win BECAUSE they're elite, because they're good enough to butcher almost anyone else you send up against them. I've seen high-ranked battles between two unicum teams end in a one-sided slaughter. This game is not rigged. 

 

When I am constantly inflicted with being in matches where I am outclassed two tiers in my ships as well as matched to the 8 players that never played the game before (how they got their tier 7 ships is beyond me) only to be matched against top tiered unicums for a wonderful slaughterfest, makes a person wonder, wouldn't you begin to wonder? Also, if these are the type of matches (slaughterfests) the unicums participate in regularly, are they really all that good? or is it the balance of the match that's skewed?

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2 minutes ago, StudebacherHoch said:

When I am constantly inflicted with being in matches where I am outclassed two tiers in my ships

That's life in anything above Tier 4; deal with it.

6 minutes ago, StudebacherHoch said:

to the 8 players that never played the game before (how they got their tier 7 ships is beyond me)

That's so gross an exaggeration as almost to constitute a lie.

 

4 minutes ago, StudebacherHoch said:

are they really all that good?

Yes, because that's the definition of unicum. Mind you, even having one of them on your own team in their ship of choice does not guarantee victory. Been there, seen that.

 

You strike me as the sort of person who blames everything around them for their loss EXCEPT THEMSELVES.

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10 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

I am into the five digit game count now. I've heard and read it all regarding match making. It's just purely random. Pure coincidence. I even remember how some folks describe it as the odds changing due to the loss of a ship. All makes sense. All sounds reasonable. Mathematics, everything logical, sure - good explanations. 

Suppose for a moment you got totally surprised by a red ship, got nuked out of the game. At the exact same time the same type/class ship also gets nuked. Both teams, simultaneously, are down the same ship. Now you stay in the game so you can follow the ship play. And what do you see when it's been a day or two of loss after loss?

You see your team mates doing things even dumber than what you did to get nuked early. Not just one player but a bunch of players. Today, in multiple games on different maps, I saw three to five ships drive north so far as to take themselves out of the battle. Not one game, not two games but at least three. What's the odds of similar play style across three different matches and maps? 

So do you suppose there are any values we don't know about that assist in building teams for random battles? I'm truly curious. It's as if when I'm off my game, so is everyone else on the team. We, as a group, are all off our game. We look like headless chickens running amok or pebbles rolling downhill towards the boulders, hoping to damage them. 

I'd also like to know - when the really good players are on a team, what do you say to your team mates to encourage them towards victory. Yes, I'm being serious. 

Finally - I'd like to know why nobody has yet create a "WoWS Masters series". You know, the experts, the unicums if you like, get together, put together all their techniques, tips and knowledge in an easy to understand format. I'm hoping we could all learn how to get "off the rail" of the downside teams and perhaps carry harder if needed. 

PS: I'm hopeful this stays friendly and civil - thanks! 

tiafyc

OK... first let me get comfortable.

tinfoilhat.jpg

 

That's better.  Now for the last month or so I have noticed a trend in my results and it is at a point where I can reliably predict the outcome of a game before I even hit the "Battle" button.  That trend is that, over the course of my average number of games played per night/day, I will finish at 50% win rate.  And for the last two weeks, with an average of 6-8 games per night during the week and 12-14 on the weekends, this has happened every single session.  Which would be fine except for the fact that I was at 52% win rate and am now rapidly approaching 51%, with 50% in clear sight on the horizon.

So seven days ago I started tracking the players on each team by their Win Rates and the results were depressingly predicable. In battles won our average win rate would be +2 to +4 over the average of the enemy team.  In lost battles  -2 to -4 in average win rate.  Again... the consistency is what struck me.   Go up 2 battles, go down 2, go up 1, go down 1... lather rinse repeat and the team make ups were impressively consistent..

Consistency is the opposite of randomness and there is notable consistency in not only the team line ups but also in the results.  I'm not talking 60, 70 or 80%... I am talking 100%.

if (and I say IF) MM is designed to force player, as best it can, to a 50/50  win/loss ratio there are obviously ways to defeat it.  Divisioning, Seal Clubbing,  playing nothing but OP ships and, most importantly, the fact that some people are incredibly good at this game are all things an algorithm probably couldn't deal with (yet). And the opposite is also true.  True potatoes, the "I just wanna blow ships up crowd" and the "It's just a game" contingent would be almost impossible to drag up to 50%, but they are the fodder that this type of MM would draw upon to level out the truly talented players.  For an average (and soon to be below average) player it would be very easy to stack the deck to assure, over the long run, they hover around a 50% win rate.

Or maybe I just suck at this.  Always a possibility.

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8 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

That's life in anything above Tier 4; deal with it.

That's so gross an exaggeration as almost to constitute a lie.

 

Yes, because that's the definition of unicum. Mind you, even having one of them on your own team in their ship of choice does not guarantee victory. Been there, seen that.

 

You strike me as the sort of person who blames everything around them for their loss EXCEPT THEMSELVES.

I own my loses, I'm far from a good player, I just like to feel I have a balanced playing field to play on, and sometimes it doesn't feel that balanced, and you don't appear to be very well balanced, I think you've taken this conversation way too personally, are you responsible for the match making, am I getting you into some kind of trouble with your boss?

Edited by StudebacherHoch
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41 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

I'd also like to know - when the really good players are on a team, what do you say to your team mates to encourage them towards victory. Yes, I'm being serious. 

i dont.

i do what i can do and let team roll the rest

point to take home probably is dont die too early. if you arent there, there is no one to carry the team

unless i see on MMM that there's an enemy unicum, i never trade 1 for 1, it's never worth it(unless extreme circumstances), if i survive i could possibly take down more than 1 enemy

so you dying early sounds like the problem to me

 

Quote

Finally - I'd like to know why nobody has yet create a "WoWS Masters series". You know, the experts, the unicums if you like, get together, put together all their techniques, tips and knowledge in an easy to understand format. I'm hoping we could all learn how to get "off the rail" of the downside teams and perhaps carry harder if needed. 

1 truth has always been out there, just always disregarded as "coward/island camping/not working together as a team"

2 ive been trying to teach some of my clan mates recently, and i find it so hard to summerize everything

things to do vary too much depending on the situation you're in, and the only way to learn this is probably by spamming battles

"last time i did this things didnt end well, probably should do something different this time" <- building up of those moments makes up my improvement

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17 hours ago, JCC45 said:

if (and I say IF) MM is designed to force player, as best it can, to a 50/50  win/loss ratio there are obviously ways to defeat it.  Divisioning, Seal Clubbing,  playing nothing but OP ships and, most importantly, the fact that some people are incredibly good at this game are all things an algorithm probably couldn't deal with (yet). And the opposite is also true.  True potatoes, the "I just wanna blow ships up crowd" and the "It's just a game" contingent would be almost impossible to drag up to 50%, but they are the fodder that this type of MM would draw upon to level out the truly talented players.  For an average (and soon to be below average) player it would be very easy to stack the deck to assure, over the long run, they hover around a 50% win rate.

I remember reading somewhere that essentially confirmed this, that MM does its best to keep you at an even 50/50-I'd link it if I could remember where. TBH it's kind of freaking annoying. I'm no 'SUPER L33T HARDCORE UBER PRO' player, but I've done/do my reading on how to play the new ships I get, I try (and usually fail, since I end up on a lot of 'don't give a [edited]' teams) to coordinate tactics; but I try, and when I DO get the odd team that coordinates-which also allows me to properly attempt do my job for the ship I'm in-THAT'S when I have fun, THAT'S when I have my best matches stats wise, even if I end up on the losing team. I don't even care if we get rekt as a team, so long as we TRIED, you know? That's all that matters to me, is the attempt is made, and just making the attempt is usually enough to prevent getting owned like that. I feel like they need to subdivide Random into 2 categories-people who try, and who care, and the YOLOFUKIT crowd. And despite what Ensign_Cthulhu said, I would definitely NOT be surprised to find out if there's some kind of premium or monetary influence on the MM, with the way the gaming industry as a whole is going these days-especially since WG already tailors the game to try and push you to buy stuff. Not saying it's there...just that it wouldn't surprise me if it was.

 

18 hours ago, Herr_Reitz said:

I'd also like to know - when the really good players are on a team, what do you say to your team mates to encourage them towards victory. Yes, I'm being serious. 

Most matches, if no one says it before me, I'll just send a quick 'A/B/C/D?' or 'battle plan?', and if people respond, coordinate accordingly, if not I just try and read the battle as best I can. If I end up on a team that's really working together well, I'll do my best to pay attention to chat between actually fighting the battle-this almost always also leads to friendly banter, which improves enjoyment. I'll also offer-and receive, sometimes-umm...consolation, for lack of a better word? Like what I mean is if I tried to, say, defend a point, but the way the battles progressed I'm unsupported (or if I see someone else has done this), and end up dying despite fighting hard, I'll send/recieve something along the lines of 'no worries, you did your best.'

I'll also stick around after death and call out advice to surviving teammates, if the team's been really good. I actually helped a CV and BB duo who were caught alone, just out of range of a group of enemy BBs, with two DDs trying to herd them in to range of their buddies and catch them unaware with torps if they could popping between islands to stay undetected and try and get close, by doing this. Saw the CV was turning into the DDs torp range, called out a warning, he turned back, which got the DDs close enough and in the open for his BB escort to one shot-each DD. They were both very appreciative lol. An earlier match, most of the team was the usual Charlie Foxtrot, but this Wyoming ended up following and supporting my Bayern without a word between us. We both bit it fairly early, but managed to kill a Normandie by working together and severely damage a Wyoming and a...Nurnberg, I think? I ended up thanking him cuz I actually hadn't realized he was close behind me till after we both died, when he mentioned how he'd been working with me when chastising the rest of the team for poor coordination. And if a team or player REALLY manages to 'wow' me, they get kudos reports, and I'll make it known that I'm sending them.

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4 hours ago, Stormie1126 said:

I And despite what Ensign_Cthulhu said, I would definitely NOT be surprised to find out if there's some kind of premium or monetary influence on the MM, with the way the gaming industry as a whole is going these days-especially since WG already tailors the game to try and push you to buy stuff. Not saying it's there...just that it wouldn't surprise me if it was.

 

Well... based on the amount I spend on this game versus my results I can pretty well guarantee there is no correlation. Or, if there is, I am much worse than even I think I am.  

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22 hours ago, jason199506 said:

i do what i can do and let team roll the rest

point to take home probably is dont die too early. if you arent there, there is no one to carry the team

^^^ THIS

While MM sorts the roster, it doesn't dictate where you point your ship, or where your team points their ship.      It isn't responsible for any team coordination or guidance in chat (or lack of).     It isn't responsible for lemming trains, or the whole team hiding at the C cap.

Edited by DiddleDum

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17 minutes ago, DiddleDum said:

^^^ THIS

While MM sorts the roster, it doesn't dictate where you point your ship, or where your team points their ship.      It isn't responsible for any team coordination or guidance in chat (or lack of).     It isn't responsible for lemming trains, or the whole team hiding at the C cap.

Of course... but if MM sorts the team so you have a field of potatoes on one side, and a team of experienced farmers on the other what do you think the results will be?

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