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JessieTheKitty

Lexington in dire need of a buff....

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Lexington overall is the weakest cv tier for tier. hell i think a Hoso in a tier 7 game has more carrying capacity then this.

a quick look at the stats:

Battles = With the most amount of battles played Lexington leads the pack with over 830 thousand battles. the next highest would be Shokaku with nearly 500 thousand. Clearly Lexington is the more popular but could it have another reason?

 

Average WR =  The top of the pack sits comfy with a 54.39% wr is the Enterprise. next comes Graf and Shokaku at a respectable 53% wr each. then at the bottom is poor old Lexington with a 47% WR. a MASSIVE drop compare to the next highest cv. 

 

Average Frags = This doesn't matter much but yet again Lexington preforms the worst for this. with a horrible .77 avg frags Lexington appears to be struggling to kill off ships. meanwhile Shokaku and Enterprise sit at a nice .93 and .92 with the graf at 1.

 

Average Damage is also quite noticeable with the Lexington. At 51,647 damage she is still yet behind shokaku's 56,810 and the Graf and Enterprise's 62 and 63 thousand.

 

and she is also the worst XP earner and CV for shooting down planes........................... so what is she good for? nothing. there is not one spot that Lexington stands out with. She does get a nice hanger capacity at 96 planes. however its not the largest. she shares that with Enterprise which is also 96 planes yet has a massively better squadron set up. and against shokaku's and graf's 72 hanger capacity she still struggles to take abuse of that due to her lacking in ability to defend and attack with her fighters.

 

do you think this ship needs a buff? its clearly in the bottom of the pack for quite literally everything. its WR is horrible 45% ASIA, 47% NA, 47% EU, 51% RU (RU is the only server its not actually bad in.... but thats because the graf has 13 battles in that server and clearly some idiot is playing it) 

therefore it is literally the only cv in wows other then RU graf. im not counting that. it doesnt even have 15 battles...... that is under 50% wr in the majority of wows servers. which is sad......

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They need to revert the US line back to what it was until they implement the "CV Fix".  

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Unfortunately, I don't think WG is going to do anything until after the CV rework occurs, whenever that comes.

Even then, considering their treatment of Midway (removing her tier 10 fighters, then reducing her reserve aircraft, and then buffing Hakuryu), I'd be willing to place money that WG has some sort of vendetta against USN CVs.

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1 minute ago, Avenge_December_7 said:

Unfortunately, I don't think WG is going to do anything until after the CV rework occurs, whenever that comes.

Even then, considering their treatment of Midway (removing her tier 10 fighters, then reducing her reserve aircraft, and then buffing Hakuryu), I'd be willing to place money that WG has some sort of vendetta against USN CVs.

midway is still strong. it still has ability to help the team. lexington is just a massive anchor

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Just now, JessieTheKitty said:

midway is still strong. it still has ability to help the team. lexington is just a massive anchor

True, at least Midway is competitive in some ways.

Really, I think the main problem comes down to her single fighter squadron (same with Ranger). Maybe give her another one?

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2 minutes ago, Avenge_December_7 said:

True, at least Midway is competitive in some ways.

Really, I think the main problem comes down to her single fighter squadron (same with Ranger). Maybe give her another one?

no with ranger she was actually decent. but with tier ten games its too much

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8 minutes ago, JessieTheKitty said:

no with ranger she was actually decent. but with tier ten games its too much

In the end, though, all of these CV suggestions will have to wait for the rework to occur, and who knows when that'll happen.

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50 minutes ago, JessieTheKitty said:

Battles = With the most amount of battles played Lexington leads the pack with over 830 thousand battles. the next highest would be Shokaku with nearly 500 thousand. Clearly Lexington is the more popular but could it have another reason?

one word, history. Not even the real history, which is a factor, but in game. OBT and for a long time after, USN was absolute king, especially at higher tiers. Exit strafe wasn't a thing, and AA was a lot weaker, meaning that you could better get away with 1,1,1 vs Shokaku, as USN easily matched 2 IJN fighter groups, the only thing being AS Lex but again, no exit strafe, and if you took one group down you were fine. The lack of AA also meant the DB's, even after an accuracy nerf, while not great and in need of help (the eventual 1000 pound bombs) were still very effective as one could essentially use cruiser tactics against BB's, and could better target lighter cruisers. Cruisers took more direct damage, and we could stack fires on BB's. DD's, when they get hit, still took pretty heavy damage too. Not to mention you had control of the skies hands down because USN fighters were, and still are, brokenly OP compared to IJN. 

But then came AA buffs because IJN, high tier/strike USN were abusing manual drop torps deleting ships, and DB's never received any compensation buffs, meaning they started to lose over several patches of this what effectiveness they had, and instead of fix that, like we freaking asked, Wargaming kept buffing the fighters. Which left USN players running AS, wiping the skies, but low damage vs ships, meaning if the team couldn't sink things they were screwed, or strike, which angered the CV's teammates because, aside from most wanting to lone wolf much like they do now, had 0 fighter cover and had to knockout ships faster than IJN could or down planes from the strike USN. Again, obvious solution that even non-CV players backed, was make the strike loadout what it has now, 1,1,2 - but this was back before exit strafe. And while they let CV's be this much of an issue, fixing the wrong things, they added exit strafe, something that was needed, but with how broken the mechanic is to start with of strafe, and add the lock in, disaster was pretty much imminent. Then, came the change that really doomed things of not fixing USN fighters, not fixing strike, but removing our ability to choose, and force ranger and ex to 1,1,2 loadouts against 2,2,2 CV's, that just lock and delete. They down tier Essex and Midway TB's which, screws Essex because it has 1 set that is focused down, basically leaving it as an old AS Lexington. Midway, while it can struggle a little, and I mean little, in heavy tier 10 AA, is still stupidly OP especially against tier 8 and has the numbers to get planes through AA, albeit the hanger nerf, instead of buffing Hak's hanger which was the ship with the issue, has hampered that a bit. And then they just down tiered Essex and eventually Midway's fighters, no one apparently at Wargaming bothering to do the math that while you give IJN a VERY minor buff to chance to down a USN plane, DFE's damage boost almost completly nullifies the DPS loss and keeps USN chance to down IJN the same, while having actually in down tiering the planes even without the DFE bonus, given them even more ammo so really, more a buff to USN fighters. But I digress.

1 hour ago, JessieTheKitty said:

Average WR =  The top of the pack sits comfy with a 54.39% wr is the Enterprise. next comes Graf and Shokaku at a respectable 53% wr each. then at the bottom is poor old Lexington with a 47% WR. a MASSIVE drop compare to the next highest cv. 

E has OP USN fighters, and a pair of TB groups that better survive and deal damage in the over buffed AA times. Graf has depending on setup, a better fighter group than USN, or two at least on par or better than E's, 2 TB groups that again, in this AA have a real advantage, especially being similar to IJN/Saipan. And/or DB's with as much speed as USN's, as much damage, similar survivabilty in AA, and unlike USN's that are very inaccurate, have pinpoint accuracy in one very large or 3 smaller groups that and, supposedly and seemingly from what I've seen, have the HE bomb equivalent of IFHE. Shokaku was lower at one point but has taken full advantage of Lex's fall.

1 hour ago, JessieTheKitty said:

Average Frags = This doesn't matter much but yet again Lexington preforms the worst for this. with a horrible .77 avg frags Lexington appears to be struggling to kill off ships. meanwhile Shokaku and Enterprise sit at a nice .93 and .92 with the graf at 1

Because where as IJN was balanced like a DD, USN was balanced like a cruiser. Problem is much as it could set fires to BB's, her real bread and butter was cruisers and DD's, problem is, while at one point I think in Open Beta her DB's were way more accurate and could really pick on and ruin a ships day the way Saipan DB's can ruin a DD's day, DD's complained and it was nerfed. Well we still had cruisers but as AA was buffed even the less lethal targets became issues, and so those running AS started to drag that stat down, while unless their planes were deleted by Shokaku or AS Lex, strike managed to maintain. 

1 hour ago, JessieTheKitty said:

Average Damage is also quite noticeable with the Lexington. At 51,647 damage she is still yet behind shokaku's 56,810 and the Graf and Enterprise's 62 and 63 thousand.

OP combo's aside, this number is again skewed partially from the old data of AS as it was nerfed into uselessness beyond trolling for the most part, and the no cover but crippling strike that could still put out massive damage when unchecked. 

1 hour ago, JessieTheKitty said:

She does get a nice hanger capacity at 96 planes. however its not the largest

No, she gets 72 planes, if she got 96 she might just in sheer war of attrition have something. 

 

This crap is why CV's need to be flat out fixed, albeit Wargaming is looking to reinvent the wheel instead at let everything burn in the meantime. And they seem surprised some of us are becoming agitated and hostile in tone. The USN fighters needed a DPS nerf, to accommodate the fact they have more ammo and a lower DPS dropoff with plane losses, as their overall DPS is greater than IJN's and gives them a SIGNIFICANT advantage in shoot down chance from the start. And DB's needed better accuracy and/or survivability, to once again be effective damage dealers. Then just change up IJN's stuff  to match USN setup types and make USN strike 1,x,x setups. So, Lex would be say, 2,0,2 and 1,1,2, Shokaku would be 2,2,2 or 2,1,3 for AS and 1,2,3 for strike. Were we to go with what some would call my crazier idea, nerfing CV alpha, so we can nerf AA, and improve accuracy of DB's and then just maybe up flooding chance and fire chance maybe go a little nuts and give Shokaku 2,2,2 and 1,3,2. Again, only with alpha nerfed, pretty hard actually. 

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2 hours ago, WanderingGhost said:

one word, history. Not even the real history, which is a factor, but in game. OBT and for a long time after, USN was absolute king, especially at higher tiers. Exit strafe wasn't a thing, and AA was a lot weaker, meaning that you could better get away with 1,1,1 vs Shokaku, as USN easily matched 2 IJN fighter groups, the only thing being AS Lex but again, no exit strafe, and if you took one group down you were fine. The lack of AA also meant the DB's, even after an accuracy nerf, while not great and in need of help (the eventual 1000 pound bombs) were still very effective as one could essentially use cruiser tactics against BB's, and could better target lighter cruisers. Cruisers took more direct damage, and we could stack fires on BB's. DD's, when they get hit, still took pretty heavy damage too. Not to mention you had control of the skies hands down because USN fighters were, and still are, brokenly OP compared to IJN. 

But then came AA buffs because IJN, high tier/strike USN were abusing manual drop torps deleting ships, and DB's never received any compensation buffs, meaning they started to lose over several patches of this what effectiveness they had, and instead of fix that, like we freaking asked, Wargaming kept buffing the fighters. Which left USN players running AS, wiping the skies, but low damage vs ships, meaning if the team couldn't sink things they were screwed, or strike, which angered the CV's teammates because, aside from most wanting to lone wolf much like they do now, had 0 fighter cover and had to knockout ships faster than IJN could or down planes from the strike USN. Again, obvious solution that even non-CV players backed, was make the strike loadout what it has now, 1,1,2 - but this was back before exit strafe. And while they let CV's be this much of an issue, fixing the wrong things, they added exit strafe, something that was needed, but with how broken the mechanic is to start with of strafe, and add the lock in, disaster was pretty much imminent. Then, came the change that really doomed things of not fixing USN fighters, not fixing strike, but removing our ability to choose, and force ranger and ex to 1,1,2 loadouts against 2,2,2 CV's, that just lock and delete. They down tier Essex and Midway TB's which, screws Essex because it has 1 set that is focused down, basically leaving it as an old AS Lexington. Midway, while it can struggle a little, and I mean little, in heavy tier 10 AA, is still stupidly OP especially against tier 8 and has the numbers to get planes through AA, albeit the hanger nerf, instead of buffing Hak's hanger which was the ship with the issue, has hampered that a bit. And then they just down tiered Essex and eventually Midway's fighters, no one apparently at Wargaming bothering to do the math that while you give IJN a VERY minor buff to chance to down a USN plane, DFE's damage boost almost completly nullifies the DPS loss and keeps USN chance to down IJN the same, while having actually in down tiering the planes even without the DFE bonus, given them even more ammo so really, more a buff to USN fighters. But I digress.

E has OP USN fighters, and a pair of TB groups that better survive and deal damage in the over buffed AA times. Graf has depending on setup, a better fighter group than USN, or two at least on par or better than E's, 2 TB groups that again, in this AA have a real advantage, especially being similar to IJN/Saipan. And/or DB's with as much speed as USN's, as much damage, similar survivabilty in AA, and unlike USN's that are very inaccurate, have pinpoint accuracy in one very large or 3 smaller groups that and, supposedly and seemingly from what I've seen, have the HE bomb equivalent of IFHE. Shokaku was lower at one point but has taken full advantage of Lex's fall.

Because where as IJN was balanced like a DD, USN was balanced like a cruiser. Problem is much as it could set fires to BB's, her real bread and butter was cruisers and DD's, problem is, while at one point I think in Open Beta her DB's were way more accurate and could really pick on and ruin a ships day the way Saipan DB's can ruin a DD's day, DD's complained and it was nerfed. Well we still had cruisers but as AA was buffed even the less lethal targets became issues, and so those running AS started to drag that stat down, while unless their planes were deleted by Shokaku or AS Lex, strike managed to maintain. 

OP combo's aside, this number is again skewed partially from the old data of AS as it was nerfed into uselessness beyond trolling for the most part, and the no cover but crippling strike that could still put out massive damage when unchecked. 

No, she gets 72 planes, if she got 96 she might just in sheer war of attrition have something. 

 

This crap is why CV's need to be flat out fixed, albeit Wargaming is looking to reinvent the wheel instead at let everything burn in the meantime. And they seem surprised some of us are becoming agitated and hostile in tone. The USN fighters needed a DPS nerf, to accommodate the fact they have more ammo and a lower DPS dropoff with plane losses, as their overall DPS is greater than IJN's and gives them a SIGNIFICANT advantage in shoot down chance from the start. And DB's needed better accuracy and/or survivability, to once again be effective damage dealers. Then just change up IJN's stuff  to match USN setup types and make USN strike 1,x,x setups. So, Lex would be say, 2,0,2 and 1,1,2, Shokaku would be 2,2,2 or 2,1,3 for AS and 1,2,3 for strike. Were we to go with what some would call my crazier idea, nerfing CV alpha, so we can nerf AA, and improve accuracy of DB's and then just maybe up flooding chance and fire chance maybe go a little nuts and give Shokaku 2,2,2 and 1,3,2. Again, only with alpha nerfed, pretty hard actually. 

oh i mustve click the wrong thing then

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I really wish I'd played CVs more in the beta and/or not left the game for so long so that I could contribute more to this, but I think that the problems with CVs all ultimately boil down to asymmetrical loadouts and squadron sizes being used as "national flavor". Just stat changes would be fine, but instead we get IJN ships that either outnumber or are outnumbered by USN loadouts in terms of fighter squadron size, IJN getting the ability to cross-drop from the word "go" while USN only gets it at tier 10 with Midway, and IJN AS loadouts being able to tie up and shut down USN strikes altogether if the dice fall right and your guesses pay off. Don't get me wrong, I'm actually rather enjoying my Ranger, but I felt much more comfortable with my Hiryu and Kaga and I have to really work for air superiority, if I can achieve it at all. I really, REALLY want the Essex, but that 112 loadout on Lexington just screams "PAIN" to me. I haven't run into many Lexingtons in my Shokaku, but the ones I have have not given me much trouble, that's a bad omen to me.

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17 hours ago, JessieTheKitty said:

oh i mustve click the wrong thing then

If you mean the aircraft count, yeah, jumping between things I've made the same mistake. Only know the number off hand because it's still one of if not my most played ships. That and, seeing as it's one of the first added to the game way back when, have kinda ranted at Wargaming about it and the rest of the CV's since Alpha/Beta testing.

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