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CarbonButtprint

Quick temporary fix for BB AP against DDs

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Add a forced overpen rule for battleship AP against destroyers without lowering the thickness of the armor of the destroyers. The shells could only overpen or bounce and this wouldn't make 203 AP broken against DDs like it would be if they lower the armor values. 

 

Edit because some people don't understand the point of this topic- WG have suggested a change to destroyers that will drastically reduce their armor to a value low enough that battleship AP fuses will not arm. Notser made a video about it, which you can watch here:

The change I'm suggesting is a forced rule that large caliber guns on battleships (not including low caliber ships like Scharnhorst) will always overpen or bounce. This is different from WG's suggested change of lowering armor values to low values which would make lower caliber AP too strong against destroyers. Take that into consideration before you post. 

 

Wargaming acknowledge that battleship armor piercing shells are overperforming against destroyers. They have clearly stated this in the past. If you want to disagree with this, make a different topic or move along.  

Edited by CarbonButtprint
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[edited]   got three bads for Han Solo... to a ridiculous topic....
BWAAAAAWWAWAWAWAwawawawa....
So much salt..... yummmmm

Edited by neptunes_wrath
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There isn't really a problem with BB AP hitting DD's.   Sidenote, 203mm is a heavy cruiser shell, 8".

 

A BB AP does significant damage because inherently, having a 10 to 18.1" wide hole through your ship isn't particularly good for its health; especially when your ship is very very small and isn't designed to even be remotely capable of taking those kinds of impacts.

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No. Proof against BB full penetrations should not come free. 

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7 minutes ago, CarbonButtprint said:

Just simply add a forced overpen rule for battleships when shooting at destroyers without changing their armor. The shells could only overpen or bounce and this woulnd't make 203 AP broken against DDs like it would be if they lower the armor values. 

The AP is just fine the way it is against DD's.  I have absolutely no problems with it.  I can easily one shot a DD depending on his damage with AP.  You are also going to over pen on DDs they have no citadels and very very light armor if any at all.  So OP you are wrong.

Edited by torpsRus
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...with the added bonus that BB players would be even LESS inclined to take a shot at destroyers at all when they are occasionally spotted, until they are being charged by one and realize that they're fuc**d.  Gotta think about all the possible negatives resulting from such a change.

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Honestly, the easiest fix is to make BB guns unable to target DDs moving at full speed.

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1 minute ago, Lensar said:

Honestly, the easiest fix is to make BB guns unable to target DDs moving at full speed.

BB players would stop targeting DDs entirely at that point, which I suppose is the ultimate goal.

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12 minutes ago, torpsRus said:

The AP is just fine the way it is against DD's.  I have absolutely no problems with it.  I can easily one shot a DD depending on his damage with AP.  You are also going to over pen on DDs they have no citadels and very very light armor if any at all.  So OP you are wrong.

So you're saying it's perfectly fine for an AP shell from long range that happens to hit a DD to take away half of that player's health? 

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4 minutes ago, Lensar said:

Honestly, the easiest fix is to make BB guns unable to target DDs moving at full speed.

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16 minutes ago, torpsRus said:

The AP is just fine the way it is against DD's.  I have absolutely no problems with it.  I can easily one shot a DD depending on his damage with AP.  You are also going to over pen on DDs they have no citadels and very very light armor if any at all.  So OP you are wrong.

I think that is the OP’s point, though. WG is unhappy with how effective BB AP is against DDs and that no thought needs to go into ammo selection, and the Expert Loader skill is mostly useless. 

So, WG is spending time and effort on how to reduce the effectiveness of 1/3 AP pens; the OP suggested a hard fix which would be simpler to implement. 

It isn’t without merit for consideration. 

Edited by UltimateNewbie
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2 minutes ago, CarbonButtprint said:

So you're saying it's perfectly fine for an AP shell from long range that happens to hit a DD to take away half of that player's health? 

Yes.  It's a freaking battleship shell.  Hitting a destroyer that's a fraction of the size.

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1 minute ago, Blackgunner said:

Yes.  It's a freaking battleship shell.  Hitting a destroyer that's a fraction of the size.

... and therefore should go right through. 

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1. A DD should be 100% be punished if a BB sees them withing 12-15 clicks. You are eyes and I will shoot at you without a second thought.

Most of the DD players did not play the beta when they had citidels. You want BB rounds not to pen then I want DD's with citidels. THEN and only then I will accept any change to BB vs DD change.

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1 minute ago, Blackgunner said:

Yes.  It's a freaking battleship shell.  Hitting a destroyer that's a fraction of the size.

So when a DD’s torp hits you in the stern and blows off your rudder and screws, you should not be able to move for the rest of the battle?

balance trumps realism in this game precisely because it is a game where all classes should be playable. 

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As others have said.  The AP is fine.  This is a solution to a problem that does not really exist. 

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problem is dds being spotted by battleships, other than missy there is no real excuse.

if you nerf bb ap how is a bb going to stop a shima that appears 6km or blindside from nuking it? buff bb secondaries? got to be a counter after all 

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1 minute ago, CarbonButtprint said:

... and therefore should go right through. 

 

It will go right through. Unless the DD is angled in such a way as to allow the shell to stay 'inside' the DD (giggity) long enough to explode.

 

Also, shells tearing huge holes in ships should actually have some sort of detriment. DDs already had their citadels removed. But just like every other ship in the game, they have machinery spaces and electrical rooms and all that sort of thing that shells tend to argue with when they penetrate a ship. DDs are the only class in the game that gets to ignore that.

 

But hey. While we're talking about shells going right through, let's bring flooding back for underwater penetrations and overpenetrations. 

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Just now, Battleship_Constitution said:

and rip apart anything in side to include ammo, engine, rudder, controls permently

 

A 14-16 inch wide hole really wouldn't do as much damage as you think it would. 

 

To clarify, I'm not saying battleships shouldn't be able to damage destroyers. They totally should. I'm saying that they should have to switch to HE if they want to one shot them. 

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1 minute ago, CarbonButtprint said:

A 14-16 inch wide hole really wouldn't do as much damage as you think it would. 

 

To clarify, I'm not saying battleships shouldn't be able to damage destroyers. They totally should. I'm saying that they should have to switch to HE if they want to one shot them. 

Oh? I can tell you what a sabot round can do to another tank on the in side. The same thing would happen to a ship. to say NOhing would happen is stupid. Read up on what one shell did to the USS Jonhson, then get back to me

 

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1 minute ago, CarbonButtprint said:

A 14-16 inch wide hole really wouldn't do as much damage as you think it would. 

 

14"-16" shells tend to leave 30 foot holes. 

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1 minute ago, ramp4ge said:

But just like every other ship in the game, they have machinery spaces and electrical rooms and all that sort of thing that shells tend to argue with when they penetrate a ship. DDs are the only class in the game that gets to ignore that.

That's why destroyers get their engines and rudders knocked out just about every time they get hit and is why last stand is almost required. 

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5 minutes ago, CarbonButtprint said:

A 14-16 inch wide hole really wouldn't do as much damage as you think it would. 

 

To clarify, I'm not saying battleships shouldn't be able to damage destroyers. They totally should. I'm saying that they should have to switch to HE if they want to one shot them. 

The DD to get one shot should know how their boat mechanic works. A DD bow on to a BB will get penned, a broadside DD on the other hand will not. People tend to forget this little known fact.

In my monty if i land 6 nonpen shots land you are still looking at near 8k health

 

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