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DonKarnage2

Nagato vs. Alsace

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I just completed a match wherein, with some help, I knocked out an Alsace in my Nagato. At very close range.

Results:
image.thumb.png.9fb4e527b3c15b17e057dd9e27a3a53b.png
image.thumb.png.0fc17903c88c15972b7a68c42691a182.png

So, it's not as if I stole this kill. I hammered him a good bit. This is my Nagato right now:

image.thumb.png.a1b2d76b80cc5112bad58a1ebb3c7ccf.png

As you can see, none of the upgrade modules have even been researched, let alone installed. But, I do have EVERY upgrade spot filled, though you'll also note that my Captain is still RETRAINING and therefore I don't have full access to the CO Skills.

So, with all the whining about "Uptier this" and "+2 MM that" how did I beat the Alsace? By their logic, it shouldn't have been possible right?

Proper angling and knowing when to switch from HE to AP rounds... and knowing that at 22 knots I couldn't run away from him.

See below for Educational Replay.

20180707_123022_PJSB010-Nagato-1944_25_sea_hope.wowsreplay

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44 minutes ago, DonKarnage2 said:

it shouldn't have been possible right?

No one, that asks for a 2 tier MM ever said it was impossible, however proponents of the 3 tier system seem like they would quit playing, if it ever did go to a 2 tier system. I am of the mind that it is what it is no matter what I would like to see and I will just keep on keeping on. By the way, I have always liked your Avatar.

Edited by Sovereigndawg

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Clearly, he had to have played stupidly to allow a ship he out-everything-ed to beat him, and do so that badly.

 

While I'm sure you're happy about that result, I'm honestly a bit concerned that that one ship was virtually all your damage, and you only damaged 3 ships total, with a battleship. More, a third of your damage to that one ship was from fire, and your average per MG shell hit on it was under 2k. Without those fires, he beats you, even with as badly as he clearly played.

 

I'm not knocking you, though it may seem that way. You were able to take advantage of his mistakes, and that's a huge part of skill. However, you also got lucky, RNG smiled on you at the right time. But, had he stayed at his secondary range, and had he focused on you alone, I still feel you lose that fight.

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As for it not being possible, I've wrecked a Yammy with Kron, a "cruiser"(Lol no its not, its a battlecruiser, lets be real), using nothing but AP. I've also cit'd a number of T7 BB's with October Revolution. Both ships have 12 inch guns.

 

A great many things are possible in this game, both with the game mechanics, and with player skill/stupidity or lack of knowledge.

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9 minutes ago, Th3KrimzonD3mon said:

I'm honestly a bit concerned that that one ship was virtually all your damage, and you only damaged 3 ships total, with a battleship.

If you watch the replay, I had to go way out on the east flank to stop this guy from flanking. With the base speed of Nagato, much like mid tier US BB's, I simply didn't have the speed to get back into the fight after addressing the flanking attempt by the Alsace. As for the fire, you're absolutely right. I waited for him to pup DCP and Heal, then I lit him up. Let him burn while stuff is on cool down, that's the smart strat when you're a Base BB and -2 Tiers :):cap_win:

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I beat an Alsace in my Nelson earlier!  I did it by breaking his guns.  Not even joking.  Both of his front turrets were gone and then I just picked him apart.  I felt...dirty.

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4 minutes ago, Palladia said:

I beat an Alsace in my Nelson earlier!  I did it by breaking his guns.  Not even joking.  Both of his front turrets were gone and then I just picked him apart.  I felt...dirty.

The French 15" guns are very susceptible to getting KO'd.  The turret face thickness, angle are actually good to go.  The problem is that the turrets are very wide and that leads into 2 problems.

1.  There's a lot of turret to hit.

2.  As wide as the turrets are, the barbettes below are even wider.

 

For Richelieu and Alsace, especially once you creep to shorter ranges where you can make called shots on a location of a ship, aim for the heights between the forward turrets.  The barbette for the taller turret is sky high and you can wreck the turret through there.  Then focus on the remaining, lower turret up front and voila!  You've picked the wings off the fly!

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Just now, HazeGrayUnderway said:

The French 15" guns are very susceptible to getting KO'd.  The turret face thickness, angle are actually good to go.  The problem is that the turrets are very wide and that leads into 2 problems.

1.  There's a lot of turret to hit.

2.  As wide as the turrets are, the barbettes below are even wider.

 

For Richelieu and Alsace, especially once you creep to shorter ranges where you can make called shots on a location of a ship, aim for the heights between the forward turrets.  The barbette for the taller turret is sky high and you can wreck the turret through there.  Then focus on the remaining, lower turret up front and voila!  You've picked the wings off the fly!

That was exactly what I did.  I was hoping to break one of his front guns but I managed both of them.  Past that he had to expose his broadside to get any shots off on me and that...ended predictably.

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1 minute ago, Palladia said:

That was exactly what I did.  I was hoping to break one of his front guns but I managed both of them.  Past that he had to expose his broadside to get any shots off on me and that...ended predictably.

When Richelieu officially rolled out there were a few threads around about people being surprised how squishy those turrets were.  Typically when I do Secondary Build BBs, I slot AAM1, but for Richelieu and Alsace, that was no bueno.  I had to take MAM1 and make the turrets tougher, and even then, that was no guarantee.  I remember getting into a brawl with a Missouri who had islands protecting his sides.  Since he was doing bow on fighting, I tried to use AP, that wasn't working against the turrets.  I then switched to HE, which needed time to do work.  But Missouri and those hard hitting USN 406mm/50 AP shells?  Were wrecking my turrets.  Disabling one, forcing DCP to get the gun back up, only for MO to destroy the turret for good.  He then focuses on the 2nd and last turret up front.  Would have done the same again but he died because of the backup I had.  If I did not have that help, I'd have been disarmed.

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Just for reference, I've managed to beat a North Carolina in a New Mexico, in a straight up, 1v1, full health fight. Dude did everything wrong: didn't use his speed, closed the distance to me, presented 3/4th broadside, etc.  All I had to do was turn back and forth from bow-on to enough to bring my rear turrets into play.  Punched 14" AP into his citadel repeatedly, and he didn't manage to citadel me once.

That doesn't mean that NCs belong in the same match as a NM, since a poor NM will get p0wned by a NC 99 out of 100 times in a similar situation, if the NC isn't a potato-head.

Anomalies don't disprove the rule. And a Nagato will get murdered by an Alsace at about the same rate.

Edited by LAnybody
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I've brawled a Missouri in my Colorado and won.  A lot of BB knife fights like that are really about who is in the better position.  If there is two things I have learned with this game it's this:

  1. Practically all guns go through even the thickest belt armor when perpendicular at close range.
  2. Pretty much any caliber advantage can be negated by proper angling.

Congrats with your kill though man.  You earned it.

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That is indeed impressive. I mean, I've seen a Lyon out-brawl a Bismarck point-blank, but this... This is just something else. Just goes to show you not to underestimate a dreadnought.

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Proper angling and firing your guns at the right time is so important especially when going up against a higher tiered BB or cruiser if you want to survive/win the 1 on 1 battle.

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On 7/10/2018 at 11:43 PM, LAnybody said:

Just for reference, I've managed to beat a North Carolina in a New Mexico, in a straight up, 1v1, full health fight. Dude did everything wrong: didn't use his speed, closed the distance to me, presented 3/4th broadside, etc.  All I had to do was turn back and forth from bow-on to enough to bring my rear turrets into play.  Punched 14" AP into his citadel repeatedly, and he didn't manage to citadel me once.

That doesn't mean that NCs belong in the same match as a NM, since a poor NM will get p0wned by a NC 99 out of 100 times in a similar situation, if the NC isn't a potato-head.

Anomalies don't disprove the rule. And a Nagato will get murdered by an Alsace at about the same rate.

This is really important to note. Anecdotes aren't proof. 

Although a good reminder to never give up, which MM whiners do at the first sign of uptiering. 

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One of the biggest single gun salvos I've ever gotten was around 60K to a broadside Yamato point blank with my Amagi.  16" guns most definitely work (unless Mutsu).  You get that Nag against him the right way and most certainly it is possible, especially when you take into account Alsace guns are 15" which gives you some ability to angle against them.  Not to a huge degree but enough to broadside the dogsh*t out of him one good time.

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Scored 5 cits with a Monarch vs a Yamato and deleted it at close range. It happens 

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I beat a Yamato at 8km with my Khabavorsk exchanging AP at each other at broadside. Positioning is what matters more.

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