Jump to content
You need to play a total of 5 battles to post in this section.
Soshi_Sone

The Picture of High Tier Carrier Play

24 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

265
[PAT]
Members
1,641 posts
3,530 battles

Funny.

Most of my games come up with both of us being middle.

Also 3 kills and 53 planes shot down, still not top.

RIP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,226
[SSG]
Alpha Tester
3,985 posts
9,298 battles

That is pretty much every tier depending on A: skill of the players (broken CV mechanics don't help with the gap), B: which team has enough brains to actually use teamwork and stick together, and C: at times what CV's are squaring off. Seeing as both are Midways and that's a fixed setup beyond "do you have AS or not", it's basically A and B. I had a match yesterday in Taiho where between my team being scattered, and therefore having to focus more both on defending the ships with fighters, and because the enemy was an Essex, not getting my fighters wrecked. And while I still managed to pretty much shut the Essex down - Barely did any direct damage, mostly spotting, because you had BB's clumped together near Des, Mino, etc that trying to get near just cost planes. And the fact they created at one point on a side that was broken through a massive smoke screen concealing a Des, mino, a third cruiser, Bismarck, Mo, and a tier 9/10 USN DD, did not help seeing as they can go full tilt AA and I never see them. Which aggravates me the most even when I'm not the CV player and see some of the complaints and everyone blame the CV. 

CV's SHARE the job of all 3 classes, scouting when needed, mostly aid in air defense as a cruiser and knockout ships, like a BB. IJN is balanced more like it's DD's so it's real edge is going after BB's, much as it can kill cruisers and DD's (leaving the broken nature of manual drop out of it) and USN was really always balanced more like it's cruisers, better fighters (too much so actually), preferred hiding around islands, and once upon a time, were better at picking off DD's and cruisers with their DB's and burning BB's down (before the DD's demanded accuracy nerfs to DB's that were overly harsh and AA was over buffed to compensate for a broken mechanic mostly an issue with TB's). If DD's are present and scouting, that gives us an ability to focus more on defense and attack. teammates stick together, we can focus more on attack and scouting. If teammates take out cruisers, especially heavy AA ones, are attacks are way more effective and we can hit those BB's hard. We rely on our DD's and cruisers to make sure ships don't slip through that we may not be able to find.

CV's require the team to work together just as much as any other ship to truly do well. Doesn't matter if your CV is king of the potatoes, or the blue berry god, a team that works together and helps their CV help them, especially while the other team falls apart and does nothing, will make their CV that much more effective. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,014
[STW-M]
Members
2,939 posts
6,987 battles
16 minutes ago, WanderingGhost said:

CV's require the team to work together just as much as any other ship to truly do well. Doesn't matter if your CV is king of the potatoes, or the blue berry god, a team that works together and helps their CV help them, especially while the other team falls apart and does nothing, will make their CV that much more effective. 

The problem, especially from tier 7+, is that quite a few CV cancer divisions start popping up. Saipan-Belfast-Atlanta is the most basic of them, and it can eventually escalate all the way to Hakuryu-Des Moines-Worcester.

These divisions have an incredibly disproportionate effect on any match they face and completely ruin the experience for everyone except the three people in said division. Teammates don't get to actually have a decent hard-fought game when the match ends barely ten minutes in, and opponents really don't appreciate their own CV (who can be just as competent or perhaps even moreso than the CV in the division) get completely shut down.

Someone checked the EU server's stats for Midway and Hakuryu about half a year ago and found the following information about their WRs:

  • Solo:
    • Midway: 46.68%
    • Hakuryu: 46.63%
  • 2-man division:
    • Midway: 59.25%
    • Hakuryu: 56.22%
  • 3-man division:
    • Midway: 64.56%
    • Hakuryu: 63.28%

If this doesn't say anything about CV divisions, then I don't know what does.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
726
[DAKI]
Beta Testers
3,106 posts
4,527 battles
23 minutes ago, Avenge_December_7 said:

The problem, especially from tier 7+, is that quite a few CV cancer divisions start popping up. Saipan-Belfast-Atlanta is the most basic of them, and it can eventually escalate all the way to Hakuryu-Des Moines-Worcester.

These divisions have an incredibly disproportionate effect on any match they face and completely ruin the experience for everyone except the three people in said division. Teammates don't get to actually have a decent hard-fought game when the match ends barely ten minutes in, and opponents really don't appreciate their own CV (who can be just as competent or perhaps even moreso than the CV in the division) get completely shut down.

Someone checked the EU server's stats for Midway and Hakuryu about half a year ago and found the following information about their WRs:

  • Solo:
    • Midway: 46.68%
    • Hakuryu: 46.63%
  • 2-man division:
    • Midway: 59.25%
    • Hakuryu: 56.22%
  • 3-man division:
    • Midway: 64.56%
    • Hakuryu: 63.28%

If this doesn't say anything about CV divisions, then I don't know what does.

im confused as to how the solo rates dont add to 100%. since carriers should be mirrored.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,226
[SSG]
Alpha Tester
3,985 posts
9,298 battles
13 minutes ago, Avenge_December_7 said:

The problem, especially from tier 7+, is that quite a few CV cancer divisions start popping up. Saipan-Belfast-Atlanta is the most basic of them, and it can eventually escalate all the way to Hakuryu-Des Moines-Worcester.

These divisions have an incredibly disproportionate effect on any match they face and completely ruin the experience for everyone except the three people in said division. Teammates don't get to actually have a decent hard-fought game when the match ends barely ten minutes in, and opponents really don't appreciate their own CV (who can be just as competent or perhaps even moreso than the CV in the division) get completely shut down.

Someone checked the EU server's stats for Midway and Hakuryu about half a year ago and found the following information about their WRs:

  • Solo:
    • Midway: 46.68%
    • Hakuryu: 46.63%
  • 2-man division:
    • Midway: 59.25%
    • Hakuryu: 56.22%
  • 3-man division:
    • Midway: 64.56%
    • Hakuryu: 63.28%

If this doesn't say anything about CV divisions, then I don't know what does.

Yep, never helps because that's at least 2-3 working in tandem already. Though I'd say the worst is actually any combo of tier 10 CV, especially the Midway with the broken 2,2,2 back even post hanger nerf, USN or UK BB (other than the extra 20 mm guns only good against DB's really, they have similar AA) and either Des, Wor, or an AA build Mino (equally deadly from longer range, while having smoke to hide in). The cruiser can usually pick up DD's or shoot any that get spotted, while protecting the BB that crushes the other teams cruisers, so the CV can go after the BB's. At least the 2 cruiser variation, especially with Atlanta and Belfast variant because of the hate against those ships, the team knocks out the cruisers easy enough and fast enough sometimes that they become a non-factor.

Though, I'd still say I'd rather take either of those than 3 AA cruiser div's. Had one of 2 Des and a Mino park around islands at A, B, and C that pretty much covered the objective completely and couldn't get planes near them, and team couldn't (or wouldn't) fire on them. Any attempt to protect teammates from enemy bombers in the objective ended with my fighters gone and all they had to do was stay in the objectives. Couldn't even circle round because their AA bubbles went end to end. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,014
[STW-M]
Members
2,939 posts
6,987 battles
1 minute ago, Hanger_18 said:

im confused as to how the solo rates dont add to 100%. since carriers should be mirrored.

Don't forget that Midways can face Midways and Hakuryus can face Hakuryus. I'd imagine that skews the percentages somewhat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
726
[DAKI]
Beta Testers
3,106 posts
4,527 battles
Just now, Avenge_December_7 said:

Don't forget that Midways can face Midways and Hakuryus can face Hakuryus. I'd imagine that skews the percentages somewhat.

if a midway faces a midway then the end result will be 50/50 the overall wr of the ship wont change. the wr would only change if the midway faced a hak, but still since theres only 2 ships, i would expect it to add to 100%

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,226
[SSG]
Alpha Tester
3,985 posts
9,298 battles
2 minutes ago, Hanger_18 said:

im confused as to how the solo rates dont add to 100%. since carriers should be mirrored.

Because it's not always Hak vs Midway, and even then, it's a matter of "how often are they on teams that win", not to mention the occasional draws. Your also talking over the entire player base as an average. So, enough people loosing, and there's plenty, would actually drag both down.

 

Insane as it sounds, there are, even with 2 options, a number of things when you get into statistics and all that can drag it down and skew it to be under 100%. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
300
[LEGIT]
Members
977 posts
7,548 battles

Not my best and not top tier BUT CVs can be up top

 

 

World of Warships Screenshot 2018.06.23 - 12.19.50.79.png

World of Warships Screenshot 2018.06.23 - 12.19.52.20_LI.jpg

Edited by KAGA_kaini

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
814
[FML]
Members
2,462 posts
11,866 battles
29 minutes ago, Hanger_18 said:

im confused as to how the solo rates dont add to 100%. since carriers should be mirrored.

Because a solo carrier would face a divisioned carrier and thus do a lot of losing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
726
[DAKI]
Beta Testers
3,106 posts
4,527 battles
4 minutes ago, UltimateNewbie said:

Because a solo carrier would face a divisioned carrier and thus do a lot of losing?

its a zero sum...

assuming the same carrier

if carrier A loses to carrier B, 0-10  the overall WR of the carrier is still 50%

you can add draws to it, but i dont imagine that accounts for 4%

EDIT: actually if draws account for even 1.5% because both ships lose it could be 3% of the games

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
814
[FML]
Members
2,462 posts
11,866 battles
1 minute ago, Hanger_18 said:

its a zero sum...

assuming the same carrier

if carrier A loses to carrier B, 0-10  the overall WR of the carrier is still 50%

Yes. 

But it explains why the solo winrates are below 50%; the difference is made up of carriers in divisions. You won’t really know the answer without also having the numbers of battles played next to both cvs in each (solo/2div/3div). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54
[PVE]
Members
173 posts
5,365 battles
46 minutes ago, Hanger_18 said:

its a zero sum...

assuming the same carrier

if carrier A loses to carrier B, 0-10  the overall WR of the carrier is still 50%

 

If a solo Midway loses to a divisioned Midway 0-10, what is the Midway's solo win rate?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
726
[DAKI]
Beta Testers
3,106 posts
4,527 battles
8 hours ago, Amaruk said:

 

If a solo Midway loses to a divisioned Midway 0-10, what is the Midway's solo win rate?

ah! got it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2,405
[CNO]
[CNO]
Members
4,511 posts
14,640 battles
10 hours ago, KAGA_kaini said:

Not my best and not top tier BUT CVs can be up top

 

Yes.  That's good.

 

In my experience, I (personally) feel like I can handle any CV...any tier.  But that's me.  In the aggregate of the engagement, the high tier CV skill delta has the highest impact on the win/loss than any other single ship skill delta.  The CV often won't top out, but XP delta does not often show the true value of a particularly player or their contribution to the win.  And I believe this is very true for CVs.  They can do a lot to facilitate a win without necessarily getting a lot of points.  Or, more precisely, without getting points that reflects their contribution.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
371
[SUCIT]
Members
1,018 posts
4,275 battles
11 hours ago, Hanger_18 said:

im confused as to how the solo rates dont add to 100%. since carriers should be mirrored.

Not everyone is present on the stat tracking websites.  There will always be a significant amount of data "missing" from their servers because the sites have not been prompted into looking up someone's stats.  They don't automatically update for every player, it takes someone searching that player to get the most recent information.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
265
[PAT]
Members
1,641 posts
3,530 battles

unknown.png

This is high tier CVs.

2 worcesters, and an essex who hovers his fighters over everything else, not to mention a potato team which melts like a snowflake in hell.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
541
[HOTEL]
Members
2,018 posts
7,079 battles

CV skill gap is a problem, but I don't like how we ignore BB, CA, and DD skill gaps. It implies that the issue is CV influence and not the skill disparity itself. A 45%er DD will throw for the team the same way a 45%er CV will. Losing vision and map control is the same regardless of where it comes from.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
315
[DIEBL]
Members
1,413 posts
17,009 battles
12 hours ago, Hanger_18 said:

if a midway faces a midway then the end result will be 50/50 the overall wr of the ship wont change. the wr would only change if the midway faced a hak, but still since theres only 2 ships, i would expect it to add to 100%

it don't work that way it calculates % based off total games so that  mirror CV  can affect the % over many many matches

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
315
[DIEBL]
Members
1,413 posts
17,009 battles

What I hate is the obvious synch drops with CV' s at higher tiers . I see it tons with trip div will see CV on our team constantly attack the CV div mate Mino or Des or whatever when he could have valid targets ends up dumping all his planes on dive mates and they get the new achievment

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
589
[SYN]
Members
2,775 posts
9,201 battles
12 hours ago, Hanger_18 said:

im confused as to how the solo rates dont add to 100%. since carriers should be mirrored.

Because the stat collection sites cannot see hidden accounts, so they never have a complete picture.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,046
[NG-NL]
Members
5,708 posts
9,439 battles

Not to mention the considerable stupidity of teammates. When CV sortie comes in, they always focus AA on the bombers rather than help the nearby fighters get air superiority. What happens if the  fighters pull a strafe at right time? Yes, more planes fall (unless 1-3 plane fighters left) than their combined AA, most of the time.

Every time I face a CV, ask teammates to focus AA on the enemy fighters. I get air control, I can better protect against bomber strikes. But no, they would rather trust their AA and RNG to fight off bombers? Really tempts me to keep my fighters strictly for bomber escort.

Once the CV's out of fighters, his bombers are easy to intercept. But I guess potatoes trust their AA more than fighter strafes even after their AA's been weakened or evaporated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1,014
[STW-M]
Members
2,939 posts
6,987 battles
4 hours ago, megadeux said:

This is high tier CVs.

2 worcesters, and an essex who hovers his fighters over everything else, not to mention a potato team which melts like a snowflake in hell.

So much this.

Especially when said Worcesters are in a division with the Essex, and even when you actually DO get the aerial advantage, said division-mates swoop in and completely change the tide of the fight with their AA.

And then there are the battleships that go and hide behind the carrier. I mean, seriously, when the ship that literally has no primary guns is closer to the front line than you are, you know you're doing something wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×