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Are Legendary Upgrades Worth the Detriments?

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Vision control is the name of the game. There's no reason not to take this for Gearing. You have tons of health, dpm to beat almost everything, that 21mm troll plate to shatter HE shells from DD, and you outspot them. Frankly, I don't even think this upgrade should be in the game. It's broken af.

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For the Groz, yes its very worthwhile.

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49 minutes ago, awildseaking said:

Vision control is the name of the game. There's no reason not to take this for Gearing. You have tons of health, dpm to beat almost everything, that 21mm troll plate to shatter HE shells from DD, and you outspot them. Frankly, I don't even think this upgrade should be in the game. It's broken af.

because you lose a bunch of DPM and a YY can radar you and slam AP right through that 21mm for full pens that deal more damage then AP?

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On 7/7/2018 at 9:44 AM, HazardDrake said:

Some of them it is clear the devs don't play the game and don't know how the ships are used. 

they probably do, and play on the RU server and the meta is bound to be different

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Despite what you may think the Gearing one isn't really worth it. Render times being what they are you already don't give Shima enough time to move away, so it's not much better there. Z-52 is going to hydro you regardless. Yueyang is a trade without the module, and unless you took gun perks in your Gearing to compensate that the Yueyang didn't also take, might cause you to lose with the module. Khab is Khab. Groz now definitely out guns you with -10% reload and his new heal.

Its just not worth it. Marginal anti Shima benefits. Significant negatives versus a couple of borderline engagements. 

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For me, The Yamato and the Hinde upgrades are worth the effort, the others are more of a trad off really.

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13 hours ago, Hanger_18 said:

because you lose a bunch of DPM and a YY can radar you and slam AP right through that 21mm for full pens that deal more damage then AP?

The one ship that counters you (assuming it's done preemptively and with support) doesn't mean you shouldn't take this module for the 99% of pubs that won't be radar YY in div smoke with teammates nearby.

Literally angle and YY will lose to Gearing evertim. I wouldn't take this over YY for CW but it's blatantly overpowered for pubs. It creates the same imbalance from the old captain system where 15pt captain DDs with worse concealment were outspotting IJN DD because they didn't have CE.

Edited by awildseaking

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2 minutes ago, awildseaking said:

The one ship that counters you (assuming it's done preemptively and with support) doesn't mean you shouldn't take this module for the 99% of pubs that won't be radar YY in div smoke with teammates nearby.

Literally angle and YY will lose to Gearing evertim. I wouldn't take this over YY for CW but it's blatantly overpowered for pubs.

ok angle and he goes back to HE and you have 15% less DPM and im betting you wont get all the turrets on target if you angle enough for a bounce. youre not winning that fight.

if you wanted a stealthier ship thats close to a gearing...you shouldve gone YY, and you would have been better off instantly. 

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Just now, Hanger_18 said:

ok angle and he goes back to HE and you have 15% less DPM and im betting you wont get all the turrets on target if you angle enough for a bounce. youre not winning that fight.

if you wanted a stealthier ship thats close to a gearing...you shouldve gone YY, and you would have been better off instantly. 

You don't have to angle much to bounce DD AP. YY switches to HE and starts shattering. It's almost like you forgot Gearing has an extra 2k health pool as well.

YY never wins straight brawls against anything except IJN.

I really don't get why you're so hung up on this. Again, the possibility of YY countering Legendary Gearing doesn't change the fact that no other ship is countering it. It's a massive advantage for Gearing most of the time. The 15% loss isn't even relevant because of MBM3 and AR and it doesn't apply to any ship except YY. Even if you didn't offset the DPM Gearing still out DPMs everything at T8-9. The few T10 threats it faces won't be able to outspot it, so losing a 1v1 to Groz or Z-52 is irrelevant when you can screen them like an IJN DD.

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3 minutes ago, awildseaking said:

You don't have to angle much to bounce DD AP. YY switches to HE and starts shattering. It's almost like you forgot Gearing has an extra 2k health pool as well.

YY never wins straight brawls against anything except IJN.

I really don't get why you're so hung up on this. Again, the possibility of YY countering Legendary Gearing doesn't change the fact that no other ship is countering it. It's a massive advantage for Gearing most of the time. The 15% loss isn't even relevant because of MBM3 and AR and it doesn't apply to any ship except YY. Even if you didn't offset the DPM Gearing still out DPMs everything at T8-9. The few T10 threats it faces won't be able to outspot it, so losing a 1v1 to Groz or Z-52 is irrelevant when you can screen them like an IJN DD.

im not sure about you but ive never had issues with gearings, shatters or bounces. i'll dive in on a khaba if it needs done at 6km/

2k hp when youre down 15% DPM and have a massive hull in comparison? the 15% does apply because its still a flat 15% and the idea of AR is a wash because you know any gunboat is running it.

and then there all the other radar ships that will murder you.

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On 7/7/2018 at 6:44 AM, HazardDrake said:

Some of them it is clear the devs don't play the game and don't know how the ships are used. 

There's a lot of really bad upgrades there.  I remember seeing the WiP ones and I was cringing.  The Live versions aren't any better.  Again, some look interesting but so many are just outright garbage.

"Who is going to give up ____ in [Insert ship name] for that:Smile_teethhappy:"

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1 hour ago, Hanger_18 said:

im not sure about you but ive never had issues with gearings, shatters or bounces. i'll dive in on a khaba if it needs done at 6km/

2k hp when youre down 15% DPM and have a massive hull in comparison? the 15% does apply because its still a flat 15% and the idea of AR is a wash because you know any gunboat is running it.

and then there all the other radar ships that will murder you.

Yup. Everyone who thinks Gearing is a DPM monster are looking at its paper stats, ignoring what the arcs do to its practical DPM. *Toilet flushing sounds*

I’ve outgunned Gearings in my Groz, even before the buffs, and I don’t run the gun reload mod.

Edited by HazardDrake
  • Cool 1

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9 minutes ago, HazardDrake said:

Yup. Everyone who thinks Gearing is a DPM monster are looking at its paper stats, ignoring what the arcs do to its practical DPM. *Toilet flushing sounds*

I’ve outgunned Gearings in my Groz, even before the buffs, and I don’t run the gun reload mod.

most people cant lead the arcs, let alone when you and the target are driving like a meth addict

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11 minutes ago, HazardDrake said:

Yup. Everyone who thinks Gearing is a DPM monster are looking at its paper stats, ignoring what the arcs do to its practical DPM. *Toilet flushing sounds*

I’ve outgunned Gearings in my Groz, even before the buffs, and I don’t run the gun reload mod.

A lot of people disregard key characteristics like shell arcs.  Even when it came down to Cruiser DPM discussions, shell flight characteristics were often ignored.  But USN DD gunnery is a very good one of "on paper" and "how it really is in the game."

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5 minutes ago, Hanger_18 said:

most people cant lead the arcs, let alone when you and the target are driving like a meth addict

Yup. You can’t adjust your aim for sure until you see the shells land, meaning you are always, depending on the range, a few seconds behind a VMF DD. On top of that, dispersion can lead to you making mistakes in correction. 

I once brought up the idea that USN, rather than having about the same dispersion of other DDs, get much tighter dispersion to compensate for the bad arcs.

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They're Optional.  I like the idea of options; if the detriments happen to fall in the area of my playing strengths then I might be compelled to take it, as it can be offset.  And of course you can use them in conjunction with modified builds and commander skills.  If I can't settle on a viable combo I won't take it.

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On 7/7/2018 at 9:53 AM, yashma said:

Given how many Tier 10s I have....I do think the grind is a little excessive for something that's supposed to be a "side grade" and which in many cases arguably doesn't even live up to that.  But it is what it is....

Correct

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Can we all agree the Z-52 "upgrade" is the most lackluster sidegrade of the lot?

  • –5% to detectability
  • –15% to torpedo tubes reload time

So...you lose concealment to the tune of 6.2 to 6.4(which is important relative to it's peers and it's hydro range) but add some seconds to the lowest torp reload(but lowest damage torps) at T10?

I really can't think of a scenario where one would choose that upgrade and not regret it.

 

On the other hand, the Worcester upgrade seems perfect for competitive environments.

  • +10% to duration of Surveillance Radar
  • +20% to duration of Hydroacoustic Search
  • +20% to duration of Defensive AA Fire

You lose 1km of detection for more action time on the consumables.  

 

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9 hours ago, HazardDrake said:

Yup. You can’t adjust your aim for sure until you see the shells land, meaning you are always, depending on the range, a few seconds behind a VMF DD. On top of that, dispersion can lead to you making mistakes in correction. 

I once brought up the idea that USN, rather than having about the same dispersion of other DDs, get much tighter dispersion to compensate for the bad arcs.

And that's why some of us are unicums and others aren't. I don't have to adjust to aim. It's pure muscle memory. Arcs only become an issue when you're trying to shoot someone kiting effectively at max range. Gearing's DPM is anything but theoretical for me. It's an amazing ship and I love it much more than Fletcher.

In the previous discussion, 15% is intentionally misleading. The reload increases from 3 to 3.45sec. The reload is basically still 3 if you take MBM3. 15 is a bigger number and sound scarier.

There are lots of ships to practice with. Atlanta and Neptune are great because of their RoF. If you can't hit fast moving targets at max range, you're just not good tbh.

Edited by awildseaking

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On 7.7.2018 at 3:44 PM, HazardDrake said:

Some of them it is clear the devs don't play the game and don't know how the ships are used. 

they play the game, but not very good and not much. you only need to open up the clans they formed

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6 hours ago, awildseaking said:

And that's why some of us are unicums and others aren't. I don't have to adjust to aim. It's pure muscle memory. Arcs only become an issue when you're trying to shoot someone kiting effectively at max range. Gearing's DPM is anything but theoretical for me. It's an amazing ship and I love it much more than Fletcher.

You only have 12 games in the Gearing. Unless your stats are hidden and I’m not being told that.

On top of that, your hit ratio is MUCH higher on your VMF DDs, just like it is with me. Which kinda kills your assertion of the arcs not making a big difference.

There is no such thing as “muscle memory” eliminating the need for correcting via fall of shot. Muscle memory will get you in the ballpark and it will take less mental effort to apply the feedback you are getting, but you are still depending on fall of shot to get on target. You might be automatically correcting, rather than a newbie who has to actually think about it, which lets you focus on other things. That’s an advantage for sure, but even the best trick-shooters in the world do their stuff at known and consistent ranges. 

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4 minutes ago, Herr_Reitz said:

Hmm... thot they were going to sell these things...

They are, for a grind. It's all XP and wins, so just playing the T10 will get you there eventually for that ship.

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I am on the last part of the mission for the hindy with 30k base xp to go. I will be mounting this no matter what I read to the contrary. I wonder if I will be able to install this and uninstall this without spending doubloons to get a better feel for how the module plays. I didn’t see anything about this on the write ups but then I probably would have missed anyways.

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