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Fix broken USN fighter squadrons

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For the love of ships, WG please fix how broken USN fighters are. no matter what combination of modules and loadouts I use i cannot EVER win a straight up fight against USN fighters. its not balanced its not fun. fix it. its extremely annoying how much of an RNG fest there is when fighters dogfight. even 3 USN fighters magically shoot down all 5 of my IJN ones, which HISTORICALLY were always better than USN fighters as far as armament. yet for some reason this game always lets the USN fighters win. fix it. 

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I assume you're talking tier 4 and 5? Because after that, things generally go in ijn's favor.

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I suppose you're talking about Saipan, because it's the only broken US premium. 

 

Other than Saipan, US CV carries heavy squadron so the massive fire power when straffing is logical but all US CV until....Essex or Midway only have 1 fighter squadron which limits air supperiority.

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7 minutes ago, Planetos said:

which HISTORICALLY were always better than USN fighters as far as armament. yet for some reason this game always lets the USN fighters win.

If you think the presence of 20mm cannons is the sole reason Japan got some favorable engagements in the early phases the war, you have a lot to learn about history much less the game.

Edited by Flashtirade
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No.

They have strong fighters because they get less squads at mid tier. IJN get more squads to balance it out.

It's just one plane squad, go around it, ignore it, whatever. It's really not hard.

Edited by megadeux

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The non manual control of aircraft is indeed quite annoying.

Assuming that is what you mean ofcourse, because after those tiers IJN is OP.

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the Zuiho is my go to for ship sinking missions, but its extremely annoying to go against 7 tier 5 fighters that can somehow, shoot down all 5 of my fully boosted IJN fighters. I run Dog-Fighting Expert, and both modules that boost the effectiveness of my fighters ( no need for reduced service time at tier 5), and the flag that increases fighter DPS, but still end up losing too many fighters. i am not asking for IJN fighters to win every time, but seriously, fix the RNG fest, when the stats on IJN are clearly better, they need to show. 

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2 minutes ago, Planetos said:

the Zuiho is my go to for ship sinking missions, but its extremely annoying to go against 7 tier 5 fighters that can somehow, shoot down all 5 of my fully boosted IJN fighters. I run Dog-Fighting Expert, and both modules that boost the effectiveness of my fighters ( no need for reduced service time at tier 5), and the flag that increases fighter DPS, but still end up losing too many fighters. i am not asking for IJN fighters to win every time, but seriously, fix the RNG fest, when the stats on IJN are clearly better, they need to show. 

Your best bet is to not rely on RNG, and instead rig it or bait so that they have to fight over some AA. I understand what you mean as I'm a Lexington captain and I'm barely at Zuihou myself, trying to get as many CVs as possible on the IJN side before the rework. 
My reasoning for this is that whenever stuff gets rearranged significantly or reworked, you end up with bonus modules or credits and other stuff. It's quite worth going out of my way to nab more stuff. 
Worst case scenario they remove CVs, and they'll have to heartily compensate people who spent time grinding it. Unlikely, but point stands.

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39 minutes ago, Planetos said:

3 USN fighters magically shoot down all 5 of my IJN ones, which HISTORICALLY were always better than USN fighters as far as armament.

No, though it was true at the beginning of WW2, however by the time of the Battle of the Philippines the USN had developed and equipped it's navy with superior fighters. However, having said that, why not remove fighters all together? They cannot affect surface ships, and that is what this game is supposed to be about. Give CVs their traditional strike aircraft and let them rely on their AA like every other ship in the game has to.

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1 minute ago, Umikami said:

No, though it was true at the beginning of WW2, however by the time of the Battle of the Philippines the USN had developed and equipped it's navy with superior fighters. However, having said that, why not remove fighters all together? They cannot affect surface ships, and that is what this game is supposed to be about. Give CVs their traditional strike aircraft and let them rely on their AA like every other ship in the game has to.

But then how am I supposed to get king of the air?

Jokes aside, nah, fighters are the only counter to CVs in low AA matches, plus, they're fun. Leave them so I can continue to abuse noob Essex captains.

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10 minutes ago, megadeux said:

fighters are the only counter to CVs in low AA matches

While they may be fun, they also have nothing to do with a game about warships; they require CV players to have (at least) one more thing to try to control, they contribute to the ever increasing levels of AA by being spotters which is a role they rarely performed and which players complain about, and they are the cause of player discontent through the broken mechanic of strafe which hits beginning CV players at tier 5 the hardest which also contributes to the ever decreasing number of CV players in the game. Isn't that fun?

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26 minutes ago, Umikami said:

While they may be fun, they also have nothing to do with a game about warships; they require CV players to have (at least) one more thing to try to control, they contribute to the ever increasing levels of AA by being spotters which is a role they rarely performed and which players complain about, and they are the cause of player discontent through the broken mechanic of strafe which hits beginning CV players at tier 5 the hardest which also contributes to the ever decreasing number of CV players in the game. Isn't that fun?

I would argue CVs have a whole lot more to do with a game about warships than destroyers.

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Just now, MrSparkle said:

I would argue CVs have a whole lot more to do with a game about warships than destroyers.

Not advocating the removal of CVs, just airplanes which do not affect ships, which destroyers certainly do.

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22 minutes ago, Umikami said:

Not advocating the removal of CVs, just airplanes which do not affect ships, which destroyers certainly do.

Ahh I see, but fighters are a CV's and teams' defense. I do wish there was an option to strafe ships or have them equip bombs though, which some could.

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50 minutes ago, MrSparkle said:

fighters are a CV's and teams' defense.

I'd love to see the day a CV driver uses his fighters to protect me; that would really be a red letter day. And as far as CVs themselves go, they have AA just like every other ship in the game, and theirs is better than most. Be realistic; fighters are the LAST thing any ship relies on for defense against TBs and DBs. Surface ship drivers have given up asking CVs for help with red planes, and CVs are too busy sending them off against the red fighters to worry about using them against the enemy's strike aircraft. In reality, fighters are NO ONE'S defense.

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9 minutes ago, Umikami said:

I'd love to see the day a CV driver uses his fighters to protect me; that would really be a red letter day. And as far as CVs themselves go, they have AA just like every other ship in the game, and theirs is better than most. Be realistic; fighters are the LAST thing any ship relies on for defense against TBs and DBs. Surface ship drivers have given up asking CVs for help with red planes, and CVs are too busy sending them off against the red fighters to worry about using them against the enemy's strike aircraft. In reality, fighters are NO ONE'S defense.

Haven't played much cv's past 5 but the area between the enemy cv and my team is where my fighters are going to be to intercept the enemy.  But, can't be everywhere so I have to choose in most cases on which "point" to protect and usually it takes a wave to figure out where the red cv's focus is.  And I'm not going to pull fighters off of a 3 ship group that has fighters and torp bombers incoming to protect a lone wolf who has Db's attacking.  Like every class, the cv driver has to make decisions on where his planes will do the most good.  Making the right choice every time?  No...  But flip the question on it's head....  Are you going to go after every AA cruiser at range on the map to help your cv driver out or are you going to make the choice to focus on the red ship in close pounding you?

Edited by IronStumpjumper
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1 minute ago, IronStumpjumper said:

Haven't played much cv's past 5 but the area between the enemy cv and my team is where my fighters are going to be to intercept the enemy.  But, can't be everywhere so I have to choose in most cases on which "point" to protect and usually it takes a wave to figure out where the red cv's focus is.  And I'm not going to pull fighters off of a 3 ship group that has fighters and torp bombers incoming to protect a lone wolf who has Db's attacking.  Like every class, the cv driver has to make decisions on where his planes will do the most good.  Making the right choice every time?  No...  But flip the question on it's head....  Are you going to go after every AA cruiser at range on the map to help your cv driver out or are you going to make the choice to focus on the red ship in close pounding you?

It's not a matter of priority targets or who someone is going after; it's a matter of 90% of the ships in the game in every match with a CV in it are relying solely on their AA for defense against enemy planes. Which is why AA is constantly getting buffed; players complain that they have no defense against the opposing team's strike aircraft. All I'm saying is that planes which have no affect against ships and are just another drain on an operator attention should be removed from the game. The UI for CVs is too complicated and requires too much of your attention? Remove fighters. Fighters hover your DD or CL and set you up for deletion and you can't do anything about it? Remove fighters. Strafing totals your strike squadrons before they can get close to enemy ships? Remove fighters. Your CV has only one squadron of fighters while the red CV has more? Remove fighters. Where is the problem?

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1 minute ago, Umikami said:

It's not a matter of priority targets or who someone is going after; it's a matter of 90% of the ships in the game in every match with a CV in it are relying solely on their AA for defense against enemy planes. Which is why AA is constantly getting buffed; players complain that they have no defense against the opposing team's strike aircraft. All I'm saying is that planes which have no affect against ships and are just another drain on an operator attention should be removed from the game. The UI for CVs is too complicated and requires too much of your attention? Remove fighters. Fighters hover your DD or CL and set you up for deletion and you can't do anything about it? Remove fighters. Strafing totals your strike squadrons before they can get close to enemy ships? Remove fighters. Your CV has only one squadron of fighters while the red CV has more? Remove fighters. Where is the problem?

Actually, you made a pretty argument for them to stay.  Ships have the problem of traffic control, firing angles, defense angles, and trying to prevent their bow from entering into a teammates captains quarters because both of you turned the wrong way.  That brings a challenge to ships.  Cv's, on the other hand,  have multiple flights up at the same time, trying to predict both red and blue maneuvers, trying to position their aircraft (most of them as some don't have a clue but will have to learn in order to get higher lvls) to be in the best positions possible, evaluating enemy targets and balancing damage vs loss, as well as performing the actual attacks.  That means you actually have to learn and adapt.  Or do you want to go to the WOW method they went to and threw the old variety and challenge out the window and replace it with set piece and standardized actions.  Do you really want to face a cv operator who doesn't have to worry about fighter interference and have more time to plan and execute his attacks?  And that is the point that you're not getting with your argument...  The CV is both a long range offense and defense platform (depending on build) and fighters are an extension of the CV's AA to cover teammates.  As the ship AA's have their limitations, CV fighters have theirs.

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9 minutes ago, Umikami said:

It's not a matter of priority targets or who someone is going after; it's a matter of 90% of the ships in the game in every match with a CV in it are relying solely on their AA for defense against enemy planes. Which is why AA is constantly getting buffed; players complain that they have no defense against the opposing team's strike aircraft. All I'm saying is that planes which have no affect against ships and are just another drain on an operator attention should be removed from the game. The UI for CVs is too complicated and requires too much of your attention? Remove fighters. Fighters hover your DD or CL and set you up for deletion and you can't do anything about it? Remove fighters. Strafing totals your strike squadrons before they can get close to enemy ships? Remove fighters. Your CV has only one squadron of fighters while the red CV has more? Remove fighters. Where is the problem?

The problem is this;

1; Fighters are the only method CVs have at countering each other, and they're very effective at it. 

2: Most people don't realize it, but the best detterant for strike planes is having a fighter nearby. The CV may not be actively shooting down planes, but fighter presence is a massive factor. The ships that get nuked are usually outside of where it would be realistic to place fighters. We can't deter 100% of the strikes, but we can protect the weaker ships.

3; dive bombers are better for perma spotting.

4: I don't want to see AA buffed again, it's already retarded, and people don't need more reasons to complain.

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14 minutes ago, IronStumpjumper said:

Do you really want to face a cv operator who doesn't have to worry about fighter interference and have more time to plan and execute his attacks? 

If he's on my team, YES!

15 minutes ago, IronStumpjumper said:

fighters are an extension of the CV's AA to cover teammates.

Not in this game their not. And as AA is on the rise, and has been forever, this point is ... well ... pointless.

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16 minutes ago, megadeux said:

Fighters are the only method CVs have at countering each other, and they're very effective at it.

Complete and utter nonsense; CVs can be sunk, just like any other ship, and that counters them quite effectively, just like any other ship.

18 minutes ago, megadeux said:

Most people don't realize it, but the best detterant for strike planes is having a fighter nearby.

Many ships have the option to carry fighters, which automatically protect them. 

19 minutes ago, megadeux said:

We can't deter 100% of the strikes, but we can protect the weaker ships.

But you don't, that is the point.

20 minutes ago, megadeux said:

dive bombers are better for perma spotting.

And much easier to shoot down.

21 minutes ago, megadeux said:

I don't want to see AA buffed again

Then you have some very disappointing days ahead of you, because AA is getting a rework also.

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7 minutes ago, Umikami said:

Complete and utter nonsense; CVs can be sunk, just like any other ship, and that counters them quite effectively, just like any other ship.

Many ships have the option to carry fighters, which automatically protect them. 

But you don't, that is the point.

And much easier to shoot down.

Then you have some very disappointing days ahead of you, because AA is getting a rework also.

Really? My CV has a 7-1 KDR and dies maybe once every four games, I think it's safe to say that dying is the least of my issues.

Also, the catapult fighter? The CATAPULT fighter? The joke plane that my TBs shoot down in five seconds? That's not even close to a deterrent. 

And yes, I do work hard to defend my team. It's not easy or rewarding, but it's a hell of a lot better then letting the enemy CV pick up 240k+ damage.

The last time I went unopposed in a CV I farmed 340k and dominated the entire enemy team, do you really want that to be normal?

EDIT: Also, fighters affect CVs, or do they not count as ships?

Edited by megadeux

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Just now, megadeux said:

Really? My CV has a 7-1 KDR and dies maybe once every four games, I think it's safe to say that dying is the least of my issues.

And what has that to do with fighters being a CVs defense, which is what we're talking about?

1 minute ago, megadeux said:

Also, the catapult fighter? The CATAPULT fighter? The joke plane that my TBs shoot down in five seconds? That's not even close to a deterrent.

Then maybe WoW should buff THEM!

3 minutes ago, megadeux said:

And yes, I do work hard to defend my team.

Then how do you damage the red team?

4 minutes ago, megadeux said:

The last time I went unopposed in a CV I farmed 340k and dominated the entire enemy team,zao doou really want that to be normal?

First, this has, again, nothing to do with what we're talking about and, second, that is why they are reworking CVs.

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