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Bans need to be moderated not automatic

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A ban system always needs to be available in an online PVP game.  I will get that out there first and foremost.  My issue is the automatic and unmoderated use of bans in WoWS.  I freely admit there have been times I have gotten salty in chat...heck one would have to be a near saint to witness their 99,999th lemming train loss and NOT get a bit "aggravated", however the times I have said something I instantly regretted are very rare when compared with the majority of my posts in chat which are constructive, supportive and polite or informative and I NEVER spam chat. 

I was banned temporarily tonight for saying something a division of players didn't like.  I didn''t call anyone a motherless goat or some other flowery description of their ancestry.  I simply said.."I am sorry if I pop smoke right now it will be a waste because that ship will just radar you and kill us both."  The ship he was in was a Cleveland with half health and I was in a destroyer about 4km from him.  The ship barreling down on him 7km away was a full health Moskva I absolutely knew had not used his radar.   I have an option here...B is being capped the Moskva sees the Cleveland and will assume he is the only one capping but has no idea I am there with him.  If I pop smoke he will KNOW there is a DD there and just radar and kill us both (I was a 1 shot) OR I can try and help the Cleveland more directly by firing my torpedoes while the Moskva is fixated and clueless to the threat and hopefully save the Cleveland.  The Cleveland put himself in a wide open B cap with no cover for a good 10km in any direction after I told him I was headed in my destroyer to cap B before he went in.  When the inevitable happened and the Moskva and the rest of his team wrecked the Cleveland due to his poor choice the Cleveland captain, and his division mates,  all spammed their complaints button.  That is an instant 9 strikes. 

It was the first, when the Cleveland first asked for it,  and ONLY thing I wrote in chat that match.  I was polite, I explained the fact it would be a waste for me to use smoke and in fact almost word for word what I wrote above but that isn't what they wanted to hear so they proceeded to call me every name in the book and some that weren't.  Simply because THEY made a bad call, undoubtedly felt stupid and needed someone convenient to blame.

I use the complaint system, I try to use it liberally but justly.  If someone is AFK in a match or if they are blatantly staying out of the fight, i.e. so far from the fight no enemy can hit them nor can they hit any enemy, for most of a match.  If they teamkill or go off the rails in chat then yes I complain.  What I NEVER use it for is a hammer to hit someone with that is just not as skilled as I perceive they should be or for stupid calls I make that gets me killed.  If I rush forward in a Cruiser smack in the middle of half the enemy fleet then complain because the DD next to me didn't magically save me I deserve what I get.  It isn't the DDs job to protect me from my own stupidity when doing so would just result in the team being down two ships instead of one.  Some, a LOT, of people don't feel that way though and if they are in a division let the complaint spam begin.  They will go down the complaint tree until they run out of possible complaints for one instance of whatever regardless if the complaint is fitting the situation or not.  He let me get killed!! and ticks me off!  okay lets complain, first! AFK and then for good measure we will throw in inappropriate chat behavior oh and while we are at it unsportsmanlike conduct and whatever else there is!!! HE deserves it! He got me killed!!

This is where the moderator needs to come in.  If a moderator is unfeasible, like it probably is, then some sort of timeout feature could be added.  If you spam a command or horn too fast in game it says hey slow down there bud take a 15 second breather and try again.  Add a small amount of time between complaints so a momentary loss of sanity doesn't result in 9 complaints in 9 seconds.  Or...make it so you can complain about a player ONCE per battle not over and over again until you run out of complaints. 

I will be the first to admit that I am FAR from perfect. I am certain there are times people sent a complaint about something stupid I said and rightfully so and if I had gotten banned for those I deserved it. But I wasn't banned for that...I was banned out of sheer pettiness by a division that just put themselves in a bad spot and wanted someone to blame.  Although I don''t get complimented every match I DO get complimented regularly for my teamwork including liberal use of smoke when appropriate and SMART to do so and my general game play.  Seeing that erased in a SINGLE match because someone is upset they got blapped and I just happened to be the closest ship and receiving a chat ban for it doesn't seem the best system.

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I say my Hello's and then STFU.

I don't explain my actions to others ,even if they ask.

I don't explain to other Captains how to drive their ships

I don't ask for help nor expect it from other Captains.

 I primarily use Discord with Friends in Battle, Clan Mates and Division mates as well as Friends that I bump into in game.

I don't "Report" AFK. Nobody knows the reason they are away and I would feel Bad if they had a Heart Attack and rushed to the Hospital.

I do "Report" Foul, Racist,Anti-Religion Language and General Azzholes in Chat, With the Misbehaviour in Chat. Weather it is directed at me or  another player.

I use the system with compassion towards others.

I give more Good Karma than Bad. 

The Bad language when I first started Playing was unthinkable and I came here to the forums to complain.

I was summarily told to grow a thicker skin and STFU.

This is the "internet" It is the Accepted Norm of some people.

I found my silence is for my sanity.

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did you get a chat or game ban?

it is not really clear. If you got a chat ban - well fish happens.

 

i highly doubt, that you got a game ban from politely writing stuff in chat.

 

the only time i saw people getting a real game ban, was after they wrote anti semitic crap in chat. I reported them manually with a ticket and got an answer the other day, that actions were taken. the person did not appear as online for a longer period of time.

 

but i can only speak for the eu server.

 

(no, the person who wrote it was not a german)

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I think only the first report counts. And it seems divs are actually limited in the number of reports they can dish out. While i feel the report system is pointless, someone already had some strikes against him or else peeved the rest of the team somehow as well :Smile_bajan2:

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2 minutes ago, KaLeuWillenbrock said:

did you get a chat or game ban?

it is not really clear. If you got a chat ban - well fish happens.

 

i highly doubt, that you got a game ban from politely writing stuff in chat.

 

the only time i saw people getting a real game ban, was after they wrote anti semitic crap in chat. I reported them manually with a ticket and got an answer the other day, that actions were taken. the person did not appear as online for a longer period of time.

 

but i can only speak for the eu server.

 

(no, the person who wrote it was not a german)

Same as in reality there seems to be only one inviolate taboo.

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What's a chat ban and how do I get one. Been playing almost three years now and I can't seem to get one. It may be that I treat people with respect and I don't let some words from someone that I don't know affect my happiness. I feel for people that can't be happy and content but I still don't let that disrupt my enjoyment. I try really hard to sweep my own doorstep, I will sweep other's only if asked.

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It's always the same. Somebody brings a ship without smoke and expects you to use yours on them.

And reports from div's are so obvious. 2 reports? What a coincidence that the one screaming for smoke was in a 2 man div.

You want smoke?, bring your own or STFU.

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2 hours ago, XxX_BlindSide_XxX said:
Spoiler

 

A ban system always needs to be available in an online PVP game.  I will get that out there first and foremost.  My issue is the automatic and unmoderated use of bans in WoWS.  I freely admit there have been times I have gotten salty in chat...heck one would have to be a near saint to witness their 99,999th lemming train loss and NOT get a bit "aggravated", however the times I have said something I instantly regretted are very rare when compared with the majority of my posts in chat which are constructive, supportive and polite or informative and I NEVER spam chat. 

I was banned temporarily tonight for saying something a division of players didn't like.  I didn''t call anyone a motherless goat or some other flowery description of their ancestry.  I simply said.."I am sorry if I pop smoke right now it will be a waste because that ship will just radar you and kill us both."  The ship he was in was a Cleveland with half health and I was in a destroyer about 4km from him.  The ship barreling down on him 7km away was a full health Moskva I absolutely knew had not used his radar.   I have an option here...B is being capped the Moskva sees the Cleveland and will assume he is the only one capping but has no idea I am there with him.  If I pop smoke he will KNOW there is a DD there and just radar and kill us both (I was a 1 shot) OR I can try and help the Cleveland more directly by firing my torpedoes while the Moskva is fixated and clueless to the threat and hopefully save the Cleveland.  The Cleveland put himself in a wide open B cap with no cover for a good 10km in any direction after I told him I was headed in my destroyer to cap B before he went in.  When the inevitable happened and the Moskva and the rest of his team wrecked the Cleveland due to his poor choice the Cleveland captain, and his division mates,  all spammed their complaints button.  That is an instant 9 strikes. 

It was the first, when the Cleveland first asked for it,  and ONLY thing I wrote in chat that match.  I was polite, I explained the fact it would be a waste for me to use smoke and in fact almost word for word what I wrote above but that isn't what they wanted to hear so they proceeded to call me every name in the book and some that weren't.  Simply because THEY made a bad call, undoubtedly felt stupid and needed someone convenient to blame.

I use the complaint system, I try to use it liberally but justly.  If someone is AFK in a match or if they are blatantly staying out of the fight, i.e. so far from the fight no enemy can hit them nor can they hit any enemy, for most of a match.  If they teamkill or go off the rails in chat then yes I complain.  What I NEVER use it for is a hammer to hit someone with that is just not as skilled as I perceive they should be or for stupid calls I make that gets me killed.  If I rush forward in a Cruiser smack in the middle of half the enemy fleet then complain because the DD next to me didn't magically save me I deserve what I get.  It isn't the DDs job to protect me from my own stupidity when doing so would just result in the team being down two ships instead of one.  Some, a LOT, of people don't feel that way though and if they are in a division let the complaint spam begin.  They will go down the complaint tree until they run out of possible complaints for one instance of whatever regardless if the complaint is fitting the situation or not.  He let me get killed!! and ticks me off!  okay lets complain, first! AFK and then for good measure we will throw in inappropriate chat behavior oh and while we are at it unsportsmanlike conduct and whatever else there is!!! HE deserves it! He got me killed!!

This is where the moderator needs to come in.  If a moderator is unfeasible, like it probably is, then some sort of timeout feature could be added.  If you spam a command or horn too fast in game it says hey slow down there bud take a 15 second breather and try again.  Add a small amount of time between complaints so a momentary loss of sanity doesn't result in 9 complaints in 9 seconds.  Or...make it so you can complain about a player ONCE per battle not over and over again until you run out of complaints. 

I will be the first to admit that I am FAR from perfect. I am certain there are times people sent a complaint about something stupid I said and rightfully so and if I had gotten banned for those I deserved it. But I wasn't banned for that...I was banned out of sheer pettiness by a division that just put themselves in a bad spot and wanted someone to blame.  Although I don''t get complimented every match I DO get complimented regularly for my teamwork including liberal use of smoke when appropriate and SMART to do so and my general game play.  Seeing that erased in a SINGLE match because someone is upset they got blapped and I just happened to be the closest ship and receiving a chat ban for it doesn't seem the best system.

 

 

I agree with your thoughts about unmoderated bans. But at the moment it's almost impossible plus it would require greater resources. If you don't violate and receive a ban, please contact me via PM or make ticket to Support.
Hold on. I need some time to investigate your issue. 

 

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20 minutes ago, turbo07 said:

I agree with your thoughts about unmoderated bans. But at the moment it's almost impossible plus it would require greater resources. If you don't violate and receive a ban, please contact me via PM or make ticket to Support.
Hold on. I need some time to investigate your issue. 

It shouldn't be too difficult to just highlight the code for the entire karma system and then press backspace.

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I was in that division the OP refers to.

He was reported by multiple players, not just our division, and not for failing to provide smoke. You cant get banned by a div reporting you.

That was not the only thing he said in chat. However, he said nothing worth a ban, as far as I can remember.

No one in our division reported him for chat violations, AFAIK. I did report him for poor play, as did others. Evidently others used the chat violation to punish him.

The Cleveland got killed attempting to cap, which should have been the Shima's job. That was the only way we were going to win, and the driver, an aggressive unicum, took it. 

I have the replay if anyone actually cares.

The real issue is that chat ban violations can be used to punish perceived poor play, and many players use it that way. That system needs changed.

 

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@XxX_BlindSide_XxX, sorry for that, but I can't delete your ban at the moment. You had some violations yesterday and some days before. They are not critical, but they are counted and lead to the ban. The system is not so simple to be abused easily. And it counts reports over the period, so you had some pluses in your karma and reports for some Inappropriate language. 
In another situation I would help any of you. Or you can request to the support as I say before.
Please be more easy-going in chats, remember that it's only a game and we meet here to have a good time.

28 minutes ago, J30_Reinhardt said:

It shouldn't be too difficult to just highlight the code for the entire karma system and then press backspace.

Of course some players abuse system, but the ammount of these cases are not so high. Not enough to press backspace. :etc_red_button:

14 minutes ago, Taichunger said:

The real issue is that chat ban violations can be used to punish perceived poor play, and many players use it that way. That system needs changed.

You are right. It will be upgraded in the future. But from my experience there have been only two or three times with no violations at all when ban recieved. 

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I cant place a number on the times i have seen complaints of a ban. Lets just say 100 threads, but out of that, i remember not a single reversal.

Perhaps i have become jaded...but it reminds me of asking how many people in prison courtyard are innocent....

Perhaps Turbo07 you could guestimate a % associated with those 2 or 3 cases...aside from that request a compliment. You are very much so, more approachable about this matter than your predecessors. So kudos for that!

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1 hour ago, c3shooter said:

I cant place a number on the times i have seen complaints of a ban. Lets just say 100 threads, but out of that, i remember not a single reversal.

Perhaps i have become jaded...but it reminds me of asking how many people in prison courtyard are innocent....

^^ This

 

There are always two sides to every story. Most of the times I have read a post regarding a Chat ban, it wasn't just that battle and the actions/words that lead to the ban, but the previous actions/words from earlier battles. These things accumulate over time, much like the TK status. Its not the one shell in this battle now that turned you pink, it was the dozens from prior battles that brings you to this moment.

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I got a little salty with someone in chat complaining that cammo and flags made sure you would get sunk first. I am not gonna repeat what I said but I got a compliment for it. lol

So it must be what you are saying and how you are saying it that got you the ban.

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4 hours ago, turbo07 said:

You had some violations yesterday and some days before. They are not critical, but they are counted and lead to the ban.

He didn't get banned "yesterday" or "some days before".  He got banned when he was chat reported but said nothing wrong - nothing that would ever get you chat ban.  If what he said "yesterday" or "some days before" was enough to get him chat banned, he should have been banned then but wasn't. The system banned him for false reporting using your broken system.

I see people dropping f-bombs and lewd vulgarity almost every day, things so vile it should result in a ban for that alone.  I report and they continue chatting, which shows the system is a joke - it rewards divisions for group reporting.   A guy gets reported not for anything that is actually ban-worthy but because they didn't like what he did and you try to justify him getting banned anyway by what he did "yesterday" or "some days before", which is weak at best and not honest.

EDIT: If your "chat ban system" suggests a chat ban, before it's actually enacted a person needs to look at it to 'verify' it wasn't just another abuse by a group of players that know how to game the system.

"Of course some players abuse system, but the ammount of these cases are not so high." - that you think it's fine that people get banned in many false cases but that's fine because "it's not so high" is a joke at best.   I notice you said nothing about what is done to people who abuse the system.  Why are they not banned for a few weeks if you know they're griefing everyone else by abusing your broken system?

Edited by SeigeTank2010

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6 hours ago, monpetitloup said:

I think only the first report counts. And it seems divs are actually limited in the number of reports they can dish out. While i feel the report system is pointless, someone already had some strikes against him or else peeved the rest of the team somehow as well :Smile_bajan2:

This, a division cannot cause a chat ban on their own as only one of them counts. The OP was either reported by several others in that match or he had been reported in previous matches and that report triggered the ban. He can start a ticket but all that will do if it is over turned is remove it from his record because it will be over before they take care of it.

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On 06.07.2018 at 4:03 PM, SeigeTank2010 said:

He didn't get banned "yesterday" or "some days before".  He got banned when he was chat reported but said nothing wrong - nothing that would ever get you chat ban.  If what he said "yesterday" or "some days before" was enough to get him chat banned, he should have been banned then but wasn't. The system banned him for false reporting using your broken system.

I see people dropping f-bombs and lewd vulgarity almost every day, things so vile it should result in a ban for that alone.  I report and they continue chatting, which shows the system is a joke - it rewards divisions for group reporting.   A guy gets reported not for anything that is actually ban-worthy but because they didn't like what he did and you try to justify him getting banned anyway by what he did "yesterday" or "some days before", which is weak at best and not honest.

EDIT: If your "chat ban system" suggests a chat ban, before it's actually enacted a person needs to look at it to 'verify' it wasn't just another abuse by a group of players that know how to game the system.

Following this logic if someone complaining via support ticket, and the queue is long... But stop, the point was about violation and sanction. Here we have both of them. Sorry if I wrote unclear, but I saw violations right before the ban. Even if there were not any of them, the system works pretty well punishing thouse who have numbers of violations. 
You see violations in the chat because we think the permanent chat ban is an extreme measure. And we give "second chance" for everyone. If we see in the stats really bad results of running this system, we'll develop it or implement something new. 
Support is the most operative way to make thing clear if you assure that your chat was clear. 

 

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37 minutes ago, SeigeTank2010 said:

He didn't get banned "yesterday" or "some days before".  He got banned when he was chat reported but said nothing wrong - nothing that would ever get you chat ban.  If what he said "yesterday" or "some days before" was enough to get him chat banned, he should have been banned then but wasn't. The system banned him for false reporting using your broken system.

You haven't been following the entire post have you?

22 minutes ago, BrushWolf said:

This, a division cannot cause a chat ban on their own as only one of them counts. The OP was either reported by several others in that match or he had been reported in previous matches and that report triggered the ban. He can start a ticket but all that will do if it is over turned is remove it from his record because it will be over before they take care of it.

^^ Brushwolf is correct.

 

Everyone seems to have glossed over the below. OP's side is not the only side of the conversation.

5 hours ago, Taichunger said:

I was in that division the OP refers to.

He was reported by multiple players, not just our division, and not for failing to provide smoke. You cant get banned by a div reporting you.

That was not the only thing he said in chat. However, he said nothing worth a ban, as far as I can remember.

No one in our division reported him for chat violations, AFAIK. I did report him for poor play, as did others. Evidently others used the chat violation to punish him.

The Cleveland got killed attempting to cap, which should have been the Shima's job. That was the only way we were going to win, and the driver, an aggressive unicum, took it. 

I have the replay if anyone actually cares.

The real issue is that chat ban violations can be used to punish perceived poor play, and many players use it that way. That system needs changed.

 

and from turbo07

Quote

You had some violations yesterday and some days before. They are not critical, but they are counted and lead to the ban. The system is not so simple to be abused easily. And it counts reports over the period, so you had some pluses in your karma and reports for some Inappropriate language. 
In another situation I would help any of you. Or you can request to the support as I say before.
Please be more easy-going in chats, remember that it's only a game and we meet here to have a good time.

 

The OP did not provide the full story. As I said earlier, there are two sides to the story.

Edited by Lord_Slayer
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8 hours ago, CLUCH_CARGO said:

I say my Hello's and then STFU.

I don't explain my actions to others ,even if they ask.

I don't explain to other Captains how to drive their ships

I don't ask for help nor expect it from other Captains.

 I primarily use Discord with Friends in Battle, Clan Mates and Division mates as well as Friends that I bump into in game.

I don't "Report" AFK. Nobody knows the reason they are away and I would feel Bad if they had a Heart Attack and rushed to the Hospital.

I do "Report" Foul, Racist,Anti-Religion Language and General Azzholes in Chat, With the Misbehaviour in Chat. Weather it is directed at me or  another player.

I use the system with compassion towards others.

I give more Good Karma than Bad. 

The Bad language when I first started Playing was unthinkable and I came here to the forums to complain.

I was summarily told to grow a thicker skin and STFU.

This is the "internet" It is the Accepted Norm of some people.

I found my silence is for my sanity.

Hey do you think I could get a discord invite? I would like to come in and div up with you and play some games?

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8 hours ago, monpetitloup said:

Same as in reality there seems to be only one inviolate taboo.

I think taboos are more regional than that.  Antisemitism is the biggest in Europe in part because some countries have speech laws that explicitly ban it, and WG has to comply.  In North America racial abuse will get you in more trouble faster. 

Interestingly, this had a role in WWII.  Nazis tried to target American morale with antisemitic propaganda leaflets, which more or less failed completely.  No one stayed up at night wondering what Jews were up to.  Mostly they were fighting too.  Germans didn't see that the fault lines on the other side of the Atlantic were largely racial, not religious. 

Edited by Eugenie_101

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Automatic bans that notice previous strikes and complaints from other players can't be fooled easily.

Sorry OP, but if you're just going to play victimhood cards, my sympathy vanishes. We do not respect grumpy players that lack self-accountability. In my household, self-accountability is a fact of life from a very young age; failure to learn it is not allowed, period.

The important thing is accept your mistakes in chat and prove it in future matches. I've only gotten chat bans thrice so far (if remember correctly), and two of them I was just unlucky enough to get teamed w/ [edited] that were offended I called out their poor gameplay. The third I deserved because gave away our CV was AFK.

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5 hours ago, c3shooter said:

but it reminds me of asking how many people in prison courtyard are innocent....

That's why you always ask, "what are you in for?", instead of "what did you do"?

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