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OgreMkV

In a Few Years, Online Gaming Will be Dead...

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... if they can't deal with AI bots. 

Yeah, it's a clickbaity title. But modern learning systems have destroyed the best human players at go, chess, and checkers. And now, they exceed human abilities at Quake Capture the Flag. https://deepmind.com/blog/capture-the-flag/

Even when ramped down to human levels of accuracy and speed, the computer teams are significantly better than the best human players. And that same tech is freely available. I only wish I had the skill to mod it for something like Warships, but I actually like playing Warships, as me. It's not about the win (well, it is a little). 

But, when this really gets out, online gaming will effectively be ruined for anyone who doesn't use AI bots like this. There are several games where it already has (poker, for example). 

I don't know if this will be next year or two years, but it's coming. Maybe a really good captcha at the beginning and the end (and maybe the middle) of every match. But that would only stop people from firing up their bot and walking away. Not monitoring those who monitor it. I would think that WoWS might be a little more vulnerable, because it's not really a fast twitch game like some of the shooters are. It requires a little more thought and planning, but the AI systems are really, really good at that... and they rapidly learn to play as a team more effectively. 

I could see developing a different AI bot for each ship. Get a base ship that learns to avoid islands, how to move and shoot, then copy that into a specific bot for each ship. 

It's really, really impressive tech. But it will likely kill online gaming. There will be those who use it and those who don't. And those that don't really won't have a chance. 

 

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In a few years Granny will be dead and I will move back to Maui and live in the jungle. I'd like to see an AI catch prawns from the streams or pluck lobster on a night dive or shoot a chicken with a sling shot. If it ever happens I will just send the AI out to collect my dinner.

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44 minutes ago, Sovereigndawg said:

In a few years Granny will be dead and I will move back to Maui and live in the jungle. I'd like to see an AI catch prawns from the streams or pluck lobster on a night dive or shoot a chicken with a sling shot. If it ever happens I will just send the AI out to collect my dinner.

Saw a few seeming to be hanging that way in Waipio Valley when I visited the Big Island a few years back.

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Or, just maybe, you're freaking out over something that has a very real possibility of never being an issue.

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I think if you had a team full of “bots” you would have a better chance to win, but with one person I doubt it would do anything. This game has many different cases where you want to switch targets. I guess you could just set one up to go for damage but that wouldn’t give the best win chance. A second point is the same as why aimbots aren’t as good as a skilled player. This game has a delay between firing and shells landing that is significant and an aimbot relies on predicting a captains decision during the flight time. Think of how many times you’ve fired somewhere the ship didn’t look like it would go but you knew it was going there or like using torps on the white line (a more extreme example). 

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It would be easy for gaming companies to write an algorithm that would automatically ban anyone who had an APM faster than considered humanly possible.

Chess seems to deal with online cheating rather well. For one thing, computer algorithms still use brute force, and while they can come up with the best answer, they usually can't do it intuitively like human players do. This is why many online matches have a time limit. The chess world is serious about preventing online cheating. There have been ranked players banned from chess.com for using cheats.

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Well, judging by the success or lack thereof with autonomous drive vehicles (Tesla, Google, et al), I'd say we have nothing to worry about for quite a while - Troll :)

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You guys didn't read the article did you? 

They DID slow the AI bots down to human level reaction times and human level thinking times. They still way outperformed the best humans. 

The bots developed their own unique strategies. There's no reason at all that they couldn't develop strategies that we use, like choosing a longer broadside shot over a closer range head on shot or determining, based on the current state of the game, which is the better target. 

This system can pretty much be used, as is, for the really popular FPS games out now. And it's not detectable because the AI bot is using the game representation on the screen and the regular control (commands) that keyboards and mice send to the computer. 

It's funny, two years ago, everyone was arguing how every player makes a difference and how, despite being on a team with 11 other players, you are solely responsible for your own win/lose rate. Now, it's no AI acting alone could make a difference to win, loss rate. 

The AI can simply do things we can't. Things that, individually give it a small fraction of a better hit rate, a small fraction of a better survival rate, and probably has better team work, without communication, than most of the avg players here. It can calculate the angles for shell bounces much better than we can. It knows the exact penetration value for all opponent shells and it's exact armor configuration and can apply it less than a second to the environment. It could know the exact distance to be able to fire over every rock and predict, much more accurately where the enemy ships are. 

That kind of thing isn't even all that knew. It's just applying it to real-time fast-twitch gaming rather than static strategy games. 

We'll see. But I bet it will happen sooner than we think. 

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