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Belthorian

A change to game play that could fix may of the game play issues that most players are not happy with.

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I am not trying to offend anyone or insult anyone, this is just me spit balling and coming up with ideas for the game I love so much.

This is going to sound crazy but hear me out, Step one, make ALL battleships like the Massachusetts, secondary builds and decrease long range accuracy to more historical levels. This will encourage players to play a more fluid game of closing with and destroying the enemy instead of camping at long range and sniping.

Step two eliminate or reduce radar......If the battleships have to push and close with the enemy to destroy them they are going to need cruisers and destroyers to screen them. Battleships and cruisers pushing an objective together don't need radar to spot DD's, that is what friendly DD's are for.

Step three make smoke a purely defensive ability, smoke is the get out of jail free card. Ships sitting in smoke and firing with impunity was the impetus for radar in the first place. If smoke is purely defensive radar is unnecessary.

Step four lower cruiser citadels and concealment to make them more survivable, if combat is going to be at closer ranges cruisers need to have the ability to kite and maneuver in open water without the worry of getting blapped out of existence in an instant. No cruiser should ever be out concealed by a battleship. Allow them to operate with battleships in their assigned roles of DD hunters. With the removal of radar from the game cruisers should have RDF built in and not a captain skill. 

Step 5 Get rid of the ridiculous fire mechanic, with cruisers being more survivable AND combat taking place at closer ranges the ultra fast rate of fire high tier cruisers have will kill battleships in a few short minutes by spamming HE. If we are going to get this game back to a game of maneuver and tactics and away from the static camp fest it is now, the amount of raw damage cruisers can do to battleships with HE is going to have to be reduced. DD's HE ability is fine and should not be adjusted. 

This will restore the cat and mouse game between DD's and they don't have to worry about the god eye ability that radar is and return the game to a skill based game.

 

These are just some wacky ideas I am throwing around and would like to hear input from my forums brothers and sisters.

 

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2 minutes ago, Belthorian said:

This is going to sound crazy but hear me out, Step one, make ALL battleships like the Massachusetts, secondary builds and decrease long range accuracy to more historical levels.

Damn, sometimes it's too hard to accept the reality that it's very hard to have balance and variety at the same time.. But I still want to believe it's possible.

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8 minutes ago, Belthorian said:

I am not trying to offend anyone or insult anyone, this is just me spit balling and coming up with ideas for the game I love so much.

This is going to sound crazy but hear me out, Step one, make ALL battleships like the Massachusetts, secondary builds and decrease long range accuracy to more historical levels. This will encourage players to play a more fluid game of closing with and destroying the enemy instead of camping at long range and sniping.

Step two eliminate or reduce radar......If the battleships have to push and close with the enemy to destroy them they are going to need cruisers and destroyers to screen them. Battleships and cruisers pushing an objective together don't need radar to spot DD's, that is what friendly DD's are for.

Step three make smoke a purely defensive ability, smoke is the get out of jail free card. Ships sitting in smoke and firing with impunity was the impetus for radar in the first place. If smoke is purely defensive radar is unnecessary.

Step four lower cruiser citadels and concealment to make them more survivable, if combat is going to be at closer ranges cruisers need to have the ability to kite and maneuver in open water without the worry of getting blapped out of existence in an instant. No cruiser should ever be out concealed by a battleship. Allow them to operate with battleships in their assigned roles of DD hunters. With the removal of radar from the game cruisers should have RDF built in and not a captain skill. 

Step 5 Get rid of the ridiculous fire mechanic, with cruisers being more survivable AND combat taking place at closer ranges the ultra fast rate of fire high tier cruisers have will kill battleships in a few short minutes by spamming HE. If we are going to get this game back to a game of maneuver and tactics and away from the static camp fest it is now, the amount of raw damage cruisers can do to battleships with HE is going to have to be reduced. DD's HE ability is fine and should not be adjusted. 

This will restore the cat and mouse game between DD's and they don't have to worry about the god eye ability that radar is and return the game to a skill based game.

 

These are just some wacky ideas I am throwing around and would like to hear input from my forums brothers and sisters.

 

Honestly lol this is not bad but I just wish they'd hurry up and fix the damned citadel mechanic with the German BBs.  I know I hit the citadels but yea Id like to get the ribbon for it.

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3 minutes ago, 0806sung said:

Damn, sometimes it's too hard to accept the reality that it's very hard to have balance and variety at the same time.. But I still want to believe it's possible.

For me every battleship is different which is the variety you speak of. Without the individual gimmicks battleship play would turn into a skill based game, of angling, shooting accuracy and positioning. Some battleships are going to be better then others....but the player will be the most important factor. 

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How about Removing all Concealment? As long as we are Changing the ENTIRE GAME.

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That is a lot of changes, not saying they are bad, but that's a lot.

I remembered something while posting in the thread "Most over rated ship" and that was with the introduction of the radar mechanic, we still had to spec into the "Detected" indicator as it wasn't a given. Now if I'm playing a CA/CL with a concealment of around 10 and there's islands around, but I'm spotted, regardless of smoke, I will pop radar because I know that there is a DD within my radar range and in front of one of those islands.

Personally I think that if they got rid of the auto "detected" indicator and people had to either spec into it or gamble like "in the old days", radar wouldn't be the issue it is now. It wouldn't be popped until torps we're seen (probably too late and a strike would happen in favor of the DD) or smoke was popped.

Get rid of the auto detected indicator first, see how that goes and then start with major changes.

Just my humble opinion.

Edited by BURN_Miner

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Just now, torpsRus said:

Honestly lol this is not bad but I just wish they'd hurry up and fix the damned citadel mechanic with the German BBs.  I know I hit the citadels but yea Id like to get the ribbon for it.

Why do I get a lol this is not bad.....are you implying most of my ideas are out in left field? hehehehehehehe

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Just now, Belthorian said:

Why do I get a lol this is not bad.....are you implying most of my ideas are out in left field? hehehehehehehe

Well some of the ideas you have are kinda left field please don't take offense.  But this one is not bad.

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1 minute ago, BURN_Miner said:

That is a lot of changes, not saying they are bad, but that's a lot.

I remembered something while posting in the thread "Most over rated ship" and that was with the introduction of the radar mechanic, we still had to spec into the "Detected" indicator as it wasn't a given. Now if I'm playing a CA/CL with a concealment of around 10 and there's islands around, but I'm spotted, regardless of smoke, I will pop radar because I know that there is a DD within my radar range and in fry of one of those islands.

Personally I think that if they got rid of the auto "detected" indicator and people had to either spec into it or gamble like "in the old days", radar wouldn't be the issue it is now. It wouldn't be popped until torps we're seen (probably too late and a strike would happen in favor of the DD) or smoke was popped.

Get rid of the auto detected indicator first, see how that goes and then start with major changes.

Just my humble opinion.

I am 100% on board with you on that.......I know this is not a simulator but in actual combat you knew you were detected when rounds started flying. The detected mechanic removes a lot of the suspense from the game in my opinion.

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1 minute ago, torpsRus said:

Well some of the ideas you have are kinda left field please don't take offense.  But this one is not bad.

I am just teasing you my brother.....the only thing I ever want to accomplish when starting a thread is to get a lot of community participation and the sharing of ideas. So I do get wacky ideas from time to time.

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12 minutes ago, Belthorian said:

I am not trying to offend anyone or insult anyone, this is just me spit balling and coming up with ideas for the game I love so much.

This is going to sound crazy but hear me out, Step one, make ALL battleships like the Massachusetts, secondary builds and decrease long range accuracy to more historical levels. This will encourage players to play a more fluid game of closing with and destroying the enemy instead of camping at long range and sniping.

Step two eliminate or reduce radar......If the battleships have to push and close with the enemy to destroy them they are going to need cruisers and destroyers to screen them. Battleships and cruisers pushing an objective together don't need radar to spot DD's, that is what friendly DD's are for.

Step three make smoke a purely defensive ability, smoke is the get out of jail free card. Ships sitting in smoke and firing with impunity was the impetus for radar in the first place. If smoke is purely defensive radar is unnecessary.

Step four lower cruiser citadels and concealment to make them more survivable, if combat is going to be at closer ranges cruisers need to have the ability to kite and maneuver in open water without the worry of getting blapped out of existence in an instant. No cruiser should ever be out concealed by a battleship. Allow them to operate with battleships in their assigned roles of DD hunters. With the removal of radar from the game cruisers should have RDF built in and not a captain skill. 

Step 5 Get rid of the ridiculous fire mechanic, with cruisers being more survivable AND combat taking place at closer ranges the ultra fast rate of fire high tier cruisers have will kill battleships in a few short minutes by spamming HE. If we are going to get this game back to a game of maneuver and tactics and away from the static camp fest it is now, the amount of raw damage cruisers can do to battleships with HE is going to have to be reduced. DD's HE ability is fine and should not be adjusted. 

This will restore the cat and mouse game between DD's and they don't have to worry about the god eye ability that radar is and return the game to a skill based game.

 

These are just some wacky ideas I am throwing around and would like to hear input from my forums brothers and sisters.

 

Bingo we have a winner !  Good suggestions.

I would add that RADAR. a disruptive technology as currently used, should be limited to the ship with the radar only.....  They had no way to communicate precise position data to other ships......each ship talked to each other but, most importantly, "plotted their own fire control data"......   Radar could not giver precise positioning on a map and they couldn't share what the radar tech saw so..............each ship was on their own for FDC...

HE Spam:  add a jam and over heat gradient.  After 3 salvos of rapid fire, the jam chance increased 5% and the dispersion increases 7%....  After 4 volleys you are just spitting rounds into un-aimed space till you cool down for 1 minute.

IFHE would be the only way to cause fires "outside of the 20% chance" that can happen once per ship..... 

Otherwise, great suggestions !

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Just now, Belthorian said:

I am 100% on board with you on that.......I know this is not a simulator but in actual combat you knew you were detected when rounds started flying. The detected mechanic removes a lot of the suspense from the game in my opinion.

Yup, and on top of that, it gave DD's that little bit of edge that boardered concealment/element of surprise. 

Don't get me wrong, as a CA/CL or BB Captain, I love the detected indicator. I can be lazy and depending on Tier, I know how far I can expect torps. 

From a DD perspective, that gave radar an extra nudge if used in that manner. Cause right after radar was released, it wasn't that bad (regardless of the fact that only one line had it), it was the coupling of the two mechanics when they trimmed and reworked the Capt. Tree that pushed radar out of wack a bit.

I say a bit because not everyone is aware of their own concealment/their surroundings nor uses radar proactively rather than reactively. It becomes an issue when used proactively and becomes devistating when used consecutively proactive by a division.

Again though, I think this boils down to the dectected indicator being baked in.

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For me all of these suggestions are for one purpose to really encourage team play........for me this would be the greatest game ever made if players just worked together all the time. DD knew what their role was, same with cruisers and battleships.........for me this is the kind of game experience I crave, the world of warships equivalent of a World Of Warcraft raid. I know a lot of people don't like that style of game play and prefer to play on their own.

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Sounds boring to me. I like that cruisers can be blapped away by some battleships or cruisers. I do like the difficulty radar brings to DDs; makes it more exiting. 

Removing this and making it a close counter battle doesn’t sound like fun and I am pretty sure it will make matters only worse. The game is in pretty good spot right now. Sure it needs some tweaks, but it still didn’t hit version 1. 

WG just needs to make the game easier to understand, because how can I know that a PA DD cant hit DDs? Perhaps they also need to make unintended gameplay weaker, like a Bismarck sniping from the back of the map should get a range nerf or receive citadel hits from plunging fire. 

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2 minutes ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

Sounds boring to me. I like that cruisers can be blapped away by some battleships or cruisers. I do like the difficulty radar brings to DDs; makes it more exiting. 

Removing this and making it a close counter battle doesn’t sound like fun and I am pretty sure it will make matters only worse. The game is in pretty good spot right now. Sure it needs some tweaks, but it still didn’t hit version 1. 

WG just needs to make the game easier to understand, because how can I know that a PA DD cant hit DDs? Perhaps they also need to make unintended gameplay weaker, like a Bismarck sniping from the back of the map should get a range nerf or receive citadel hits from plunging fire. 

What about a red/yellow/green indicator displayed to show you your chances to hit your target and to penetrate their armor. If people could visually see that shooting from max range is a bad idea maybe they will move closer.

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26 minutes ago, Belthorian said:

If the battleships have to push and close with the enemy to destroy them they are going to need cruisers and destroyers to screen them. Battleships and cruisers pushing an objective together don't need radar to spot DD's, that is what friendly DD's are for.

This sounds great, but I can't tell you how many games I've had my CA and DD allies run leaving me to face the enemy alone in a BB.

One problem that is ignored by too many is the problem of BBs sitting back and sniping and not pushing comes from how many CA and DD players play.  They abandon the BB all too often to go run behind islands while spamming out HE hoping for a hit.  After a while the BBs don't push anymore out of fear of being abandoned by their allies.  In a sense they've been burned too many times by CA and DD players.

I get into a battle now I don't ever depend on a DD or CA for help.  I can usually find them hiding behind me behind an island.

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41 minutes ago, CLUCH_CARGO said:

How about Removing all Concealment? As long as we are Changing the ENTIRE GAME.

I'm all for it. Romulan cloaking devices don't belong in a game like this.

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this topic is so much simpler than a large blob of text.  Here me out.

1. Remove CV's.

2. Give BB's 5 times the hps. Cruisers 3 times the hps.  Move  all citadels to above the waterline.

3. Any cruiser with torps can get citadeled through the nose by a BB

4. Increase BB pen rate on cruisers.  This overpen crap by everything that doesn't hit the citadel when a cruiser is in clobber me position needs to stop.

5. IFHE reduces the fire chance by 50%

6. Nerf is some form or another to rader.  (AND NOT JUST THAT JOKE OF A NERF 20% REDUCTION TO PREMIUM DURATION)

 

This fixes-

Sky Cancer.

nerfs HE while improving AP

Allows BB's to tank more like they should.

Reduces frustration factor due to #rigged games 2018 meta.

improves the life of destroyers without having to make them overpowered again by some other improvements.

 

This was originally a 2 point post.    Yeah so, more things needed fixing.

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18 minutes ago, Wowzery said:

This sounds great, but I can't tell you how many games I've had my CA and DD allies run leaving me to face the enemy alone in a BB.

One problem that is ignored by too many is the problem of BBs sitting back and sniping and not pushing comes from how many CA and DD players play.  They abandon the BB all too often to go run behind islands while spamming out HE hoping for a hit.  After a while the BBs don't push anymore out of fear of being abandoned by their allies.  In a sense they've been burned too many times by CA and DD players.

I get into a battle now I don't ever depend on a DD or CA for help.  I can usually find them hiding behind me behind an island.

I've been abandoned so many times by Cruisers and DD in my BB trying to help them so many times. They see enemies they turn and run leaving the BB at the mercy of enemy fire. They are too stupid to realize that when the BB being focused dies they are next because that group will keep pushing once they kill a ship. You can't expect BB's to push with DD's and CA's hiding behind islands and smoke leaving the BB as the only target and expect them to push. Its asinine.

Not to mention that i've seen ALL types of ships do horrible positioning. Not just BB players.

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44 minutes ago, BURN_Miner said:

That is a lot of changes, not saying they are bad, but that's a lot.

I remembered something while posting in the thread "Most over rated ship" and that was with the introduction of the radar mechanic, we still had to spec into the "Detected" indicator as it wasn't a given. Now if I'm playing a CA/CL with a concealment of around 10 and there's islands around, but I'm spotted, regardless of smoke, I will pop radar because I know that there is a DD within my radar range and in front of one of those islands.

Personally I think that if they got rid of the auto "detected" indicator and people had to either spec into it or gamble like "in the old days", radar wouldn't be the issue it is now. It wouldn't be popped until torps we're seen (probably too late and a strike would happen in favor of the DD) or smoke was popped.

Get rid of the auto detected indicator first, see how that goes and then start with major changes.

Just my humble opinion.

How about no "Detected" at all? Or knowing how many ships are aiming at you? Those are magic psychic abilities that again have no place.

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1 hour ago, Belthorian said:

This is going to sound crazy but hear me out, Step one, make ALL battleships like the Massachusetts, secondary builds and decrease long range accuracy to more historical levels. This will encourage players to play a more fluid game of closing with and destroying the enemy instead of camping at long range and sniping.

Step two eliminate or reduce radar......If the battleships have to push and close with the enemy to destroy them they are going to need cruisers and destroyers to screen them. Battleships and cruisers pushing an objective together don't need radar to spot DD's, that is what friendly DD's are for.

Step three make smoke a purely defensive ability, smoke is the get out of jail free card. Ships sitting in smoke and firing with impunity was the impetus for radar in the first place. If smoke is purely defensive radar is unnecessary.

Step four lower cruiser citadels and concealment to make them more survivable, if combat is going to be at closer ranges cruisers need to have the ability to kite and maneuver in open water without the worry of getting blapped out of existence in an instant. No cruiser should ever be out concealed by a battleship. Allow them to operate with battleships in their assigned roles of DD hunters. With the removal of radar from the game cruisers should have RDF built in and not a captain skill. 

Step 5 Get rid of the ridiculous fire mechanic, with cruisers being more survivable AND combat taking place at closer ranges the ultra fast rate of fire high tier cruisers have will kill battleships in a few short minutes by spamming HE. If we are going to get this game back to a game of maneuver and tactics and away from the static camp fest it is now, the amount of raw damage cruisers can do to battleships with HE is going to have to be reduced. DD's HE ability is fine and should not be adjusted. 

This will restore the cat and mouse game between DD's and they don't have to worry about the god eye ability that radar is and return the game to a skill based game.

10

Step One: This is essentially (and practically) the same as making all ships same. WG wants each nation and line to have a flavour. This suggestion goes against the very philosophy the game is based on; i.e. differentiating each nation/line from each other with gimmicks and play-styles.

Step Two: Again; flavour and gimmicks.

Step Three: I'd like to hear how one would go about enforcing that rule. Make smoke available only once a ship's hp has dropped down to 50% mark? Also, this too goes against the flavour model WG has in place.

Step Four: That just won't do. If you give cruisers any more survivability, they start approaching BB levels (at high tiers), practically relegating BBs to obsolescence. Cruisers are supposed to be vulnerable to large calibre shells. I can already brawl and kill a BB (higher tier too) in an Atlanta with guns only, the last thing this game needs is tankier cruisers.

Step Five: Again, neither necessary nor desirable. The game is built on a rock-paper-scissors philosophy. Cruisers are not the counter to BBs.

Now granted, WG has some serious issues keeping to their own restrictions on this subject. As it stands, it's less rock-paper-scissors and more rock-rock-rock. Everything counters everything with gimmicks. A while ago, light cruisers were closer to their historical roles in the game. Then WG introduced IFHE and suddenly an Atlanta can kill a New Mexico in under 2 mins. A Cleveland can do the same to a Richelieu etc.

There's also the issue of limited selection of gimmicks to differentiate ship flavours. WG basically abused smoke and radar consumables to make premium ships (and some regulars) "unique" to drive sales. Which only ended up saturating some of the already very annoying metas.

But that's a whole other thread topic.

As far as I'm concerned, the biggest issue the game has is the long-range meta at high tiers. The quickest way WG can facilitate closer-range fights is to cut 10-to-15km off the sides of T8-10 maps (or rather, bring them down to T7 sizes). Long range sniping is really only an issue at those tiers and T9+ maps especially are just too big. I think I remember the devs saying something about the maps being too large as well, in one of the recent Q&A sessions.

As for radar and smoke; I don't really see an issue there (apart from WG's over-reliance on these gimmicks to flavourise some ships). Overall, the game is more-or-less balanced and WG says the data shows these gimmicks don't affect battle results to be statistically relevant -which I believe.

What WG needs to do is to come up with new mechanics and gimmicks to create more customisation options for future ships and stop using radar and smoke in new releases. The radar/smoke ships in MM would in time get diluted that way and hopefully, we'd see fewer radar/smoke rant threads.

Edited by yacskn
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I like the idea of reducing the range on bbs or all ships for that matter, after all zao outranges some of the bbs she sees. I have a mixed feeling about citadels, either remove this insta delete mechanic or bring back the happy times when they were easy to hit after the patch, but only for bb citadels. Also i think they should bring back the fooding for below water line ap hits. This would encourage noob bb players to shoot ap.

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