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davebit15

Why would I want to play a destroyer?

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I can't find a single reason to play a destroyer in a high tier: concealment was the only advantage dds had, and is not there anymore with all cruisers in the game having radar. I still try sometimes playing Kiev and Fletcher, but it's getting harder and harder. I'm I missing something?

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Hey look, it's another Radar and Destroyer complaint thread!

:fish_panic::fish_glass:

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Why would I want to play a Cruiser if DDs spot me until BBs kill more, or they torpedo me to death without anyway of finding them in exchange?

Radar lasts a short amount of time, being spotted has no time restrictions.

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Because you want to be the one who decides if you are going to win or lose the battle. I find that the DDs dictate the outcome more often than not, especially when there are no CVs present. Radar does nothing to mitigate that fact. If you play a DD you are the one that is responsible for spotting. Spotting the enemy is the biggest reason for a win or a loss. If you don't want that responsibility, then don't play DDs. I play them because they are fun and I like the control they afford. Then again, I play all ships but CVs.

Edited by Sovereigndawg
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7 minutes ago, Madwolf05 said:

Why would I want to play a Cruiser if DDs spot me until BBs kill more, or they torpedo me to death without anyway of finding them in exchange?

Radar lasts a short amount of time, being spotted has no time restrictions.

If you're getting torped as a radar capitan you're not as good as you think you are.

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Hey, at least radar has uses on other ships. DF is only useful against the CV, and it's everywhere. Maybe that's why dealing with radar feels so easy.

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2 minutes ago, Sovereigndawg said:

Spotting the enemy is the biggest reason for a win or a loss.

OK, but spotting is poorly rewarded, and with 4 enemy radar ships in a game you have a good chance of being deleted early in the game.

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Comrad, glorious Soviet Navy Kiev no need concealment, only vodka for crew and molotov cocktail for fire. If take damage, threaten Ivan with gulag, he pour vodka in engine go 46knot+ nobody catch yuo. And remembar, you are simply cruiser that forgot citadel :cap_like:.

 

Edited by warheart1992
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7 minutes ago, Sovereigndawg said:

Because you want to be the one who decides if you are going to win or lose the battle. I find that the DDs dictate the outcome more often than not, especially when there are no CVs present. Radar does nothing to mitigate that fact. If you play a DD you are the one that is responsible for spotting. Spotting the enemy is the biggest reason for a win or a loss. If you don't want that responsibility, then don't play DDs. I play them because they are fun and I like the control they afford. Then again, I play all ships but CVs.

Shhh, you are letting the secret out that without the presence of a CV, DD is the next most important ship and a well played DD will without a doubt influence the flow of the game, and could even be the decisive factor.

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Radar presents a challenge but it's not impossible to deal with. Always have an exit strategy planned when in a DD. For instance, know where the nearest cover is. When radared, let loose torps, if you can, and then turn and wiggle waggle off to cover if targeted by more than one ship. Now that ships have radar, don't presume that you are going to detect and not be detected early in the game. The same thing goes for capping. As soon as an enemy sees a circle being captured they are going to pop radar if close enough. Just presume that your detection radius is 10 km in the first few minutes of the game and you should do all right.

In the later game, after the enemy has used its radar, then you might be able to get close or even sit in smoke and fire some. However, the days of sitting in smoke for two minutes are gone. Players know how to flush a DD from smoke with torps, radar, hydro, wisely-placed shots and even just rushing in. Use smoke for a few quick shots to set an enemy on fire then move, using the smoke to conceal your retreat. When the almost certain "wall of skill" passes through the smoke then you can return and fire a few more shots. Be tricky too -- stop firing and the enemy might think you left smoke and then creep in to see. When he gets close then torp him.

It's harder to play a DD because when the game first came out it was too easy to play one, especially with stealth firing in open water. Get used to the new meta. Your team is going to whine and cry for you to cap but don't do it until they are in a position to support you. You can always cap later or recap, but you can't come back from being targeted by six ships in the first two minutes of the game.

Finally, don't be afraid to face a cruiser in a gun fight with a DD. I took out a full health Dmitri Donskoi this morning with guns alone in a partial health Gearing by keeping on the side his guns were not pointed and zig-zagging so that his shots kept missing. I'm not saying that you are going to do this routinely but it's better to go down fighting sometimes than to die while running away. 

Edited by Snargfargle
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1 minute ago, warheart1992 said:

Comrad, glorious Soviet Navy Kiev no need concealment, only vodka for crew and molotov cocktail for fire. If take damage, threaten Ivan with gulag, he pour vodka in engine go 46knot+ nobody catch yuo. And remembar, you are simply cruiser with no citadel :cap_like:.

 

Lol. in fact i get a little more pleasure from the Kiev, at least I can run.

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My advice is to play a class WG acts like they want in the game.

That's not DD currently. I'd also skip CV if you respect your playtime.

Work up BB and CA until WG demonstrates to us they realize they have 4 types in game and not just 2.

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I keep hearing people talk like the first three minutes is the whole game.  If the red team has six radar cruisers, chill and wait a bit.  Don't over-commit to a cap if there's good cover for a Des Moines or something to hide behind.  Spot for your team, screen for torps and generally do your job.  After a few minutes both teams will thin out a bit, you should know where all the radars are, and gaps will start to open up on the map.  Use your map knowledge to cap, preferably with backup.  Put them behind on points, where they have to make a play to win the game, wait for the inevitable push, and torp it in the face.  The team with DDs still alive by half time has a huge advantage, all else being equal.  

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If you like playing with hand grenades and don't care about stats - DD is the way to go

… so what if team-mates shout orders at you and complain when you torp them - that's half the fun.

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5 minutes ago, warheart1992 said:

Comrad, glorious Soviet Navy Kiev no need concealment, only vodka for crew and molotov cocktail for fire. If take damage, threaten Ivan with gulag, he pour vodka in engine go 46knot+ nobody catch yuo. And remembar, you are simply cruiser that forgot citadel :cap_like:.

 

Tashkent catch you!

Honestly tho, a good Kiev driver's a pain in the rear to deal with.  Quick, nimble and a lot stealthier than its big brother.  I think radar should help make the Russian line more relevant.  

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16 minutes ago, davebit15 said:

I can't find a single reason to play a destroyer in a high tier: concealment was the only advantage dds had, and is not there anymore with all cruisers in the game having radar. I still try sometimes playing Kiev and Fletcher, but it's getting harder and harder. I'm I missing something?

The thing about current high-tier DD play with the proliferation of radar is that, unlike before, it's probably better to go wide of the caps at the start of the match (in Domination mode) and try to spot any cruisers that may be lurking about.  Hopefully, your BBs are Johnny on the Spot about hitting them once spotted.  Hopefully...  Also, the radar cruisers on your team can spot and punish any red DDs that are trying to cap.  Avoid going into the cap yourself at the start, only to get radar'd and blasted out of the match three minutes in.  Red caps can always be recaptured later.

In short, more than ever before you have to be patient in high tier DDs.

...and to some of the teammates who feel the need to yell at DDs for not immediately rushing into the cap; please, back off.  Playing high-tier DDs is more difficult and dangerous than ever before but still doable, but they need your support, not your condemnation.

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Just now, davebit15 said:

OK, but spotting is poorly rewarded, and with 4 enemy radar ships in a game you have a good chance of being deleted early in the game.

If you play a DD selfishly and go for max reward, you throw away your control and it is then up to your team, you have to ask yourself is the win more important to you than XP. You still get some really good games when you are playing for and with the team, some you do not much but you know in your heart that you were the deciding factor. I had a game that all I did was spot and I got a DNC (did not contribute), but I know my spotting was what got us the win. It happened only once because now I will at least shoot something with my guns at least once. In a DD the only stat that I worry about is the win. Torps don't always hit but I use them to turn the reds broadside to my team mates. Nothing that I hate more than playing a BB or Cruiser and the torps make the ships veer bow on. Denying caps and making ship retreat is another thankless job the DDs perform.

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14 hours ago, davebit15 said:

OK, but spotting is poorly rewarded, and with 4 enemy radar ships in a game you have a good chance of being deleted early in the game.

Only if you're [edited]. It's easy to bait them into wasting their radar. I survive most of my DD rounds these days.

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9 minutes ago, hipcanuck said:

Shhh, you are letting the secret out that without the presence of a CV, DD is the next most important ship and a well played DD will without a doubt influence the flow of the game, and could even be the decisive factor.

No matter, you can tell some things to people and they still never learn. If you let the secret out people will just ignore it. There are exceptions I guess.

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Like others have said the most important thing is to stay alive and stay spotting as much as possible.  If you liked DDs and pushed up those lines because at the early tiers you can rush in and do crazy things and either have a great game or go back to port you have to realize that play style does not work.  To play higher tier DDs (which frankly is t6+ with MM and premium radars at t7) you have to play a cerebral game.  Its not about the torpedoes and the caps.  Its about forcing the enemy into a bad spot (either via your spotting or torpedoes) and F3ing the crap out of them until they die.  Then you can cap and sometimes do yolo stuff later in the match.  All classes have to adapt at higher tiers.  Its just perhaps magnified for DDs.

Edited by mrh308
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10 minutes ago, Sovereigndawg said:

If you play a DD selfishly and go for max reward, you throw away your control and it is then up to your team, you have to ask yourself is the win more important to you than XP. You still get some really good games when you are playing for and with the team, some you do not much but you know in your heart that you were the deciding factor. I had a game that all I did was spot and I got a DNC (did not contribute), but I know my spotting was what got us the win. It happened only once because now I will at least shoot something with my guns at least once. In a DD the only stat that I worry about is the win. Torps don't always hit but I use them to turn the reds broadside to my team mates. Nothing that I hate more than playing a BB or Cruiser and the torps make the ships veer bow on. Denying caps and making ship retreat is another thankless job the DDs perform.

In general, DDs are far more team players and take the hits + abuse than any other class. some cruisers will camp and hide, BBs tend to snipe and watch others take risk while they farm the xp and CV's watch from 30,000 view and crap on everyone :)

Not a lot of DD "farmers" out there imo MATE!

Edited by Commander_367

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15 minutes ago, davebit15 said:

OK, but spotting is poorly rewarded, and with 4 enemy radar ships in a game you have a good chance of being deleted early in the game.

If your tactics are dictated by potential reward, or perceived lack of it, then you're missing the point.

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2 minutes ago, Kuckoo said:

If your tactics are dictated by potential reward, or perceived lack of it, then you're missing the point.

Right? Neptune forbid you do something to support your team that doesn’t have a guranteed reward behind it.

Edited by Usedcarjock

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