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RustyOldFart

So I started on the IJN Carriers last night and this morning.

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  In all Carriers aren't too bad except for the fact even playing in co op people seem to fault you for something.  I'm not sure if it's tier 5 or 6 that I start learning the manual drop.  Mods for the Zuiho I went with Air groups modification 1 and Flight Control Modification 1.  I'm looking to build my captain as I would want him to be at a 19 pointer.  So I'm not exactly sure.  I knew what ones I already needed to start for CV captains but as far as the rest I'm not exactly sure.  The carrier is well challenging to learn with the multiple sets of squadrons.  Good thing I'm only doing this in Co Op for now lol  Yall would be screaming left and right at me.

 

 

shot-18.07.05_07.24.37-0696.jpg

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For me, the ijn CV captain build goes: aircraft servicing expert, torpedo acceleration, torpedo armament expertise, air supremecy, dogfighting expert, concealment expert, manual fire control for AA armament.

Basically make torpedoes better, fighters have more ammo, and harder to find/snipe.

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It's up to you to decide on what you want. You can take the "normal" route that I have seen nowadays and use Air Superiority or you can be crazy like me and be willing to do anything and everything a CV can do including scouting, shadowing, sinking, capping and fighting in CQC. My tactics are in my signature.

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44 minutes ago, cometguy said:

and harder to find/snipe.

I've seen Farazelleth argue against this, as being surface-spotted at closer range gives you less time to react and run (if your carrier is fast enough). 

56 minutes ago, torpsRus said:

Good thing I'm only doing this in Co Op for now lol  Yall would be screaming left and right at me.

They'd be screaming harder at me. I Free-XP'd to the Langley to make my oldest offspring happy (he desperately wanted to see me play carriers, and I occasionally let him do it in the training room), but I know I'm not good enough at multitasking to make a career of carrier play. We shall have to see whether the rework changes things.

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Just now, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

I've seen Farazelleth argue against this, as being surface-spotted at closer range gives you less time to react and run (if your carrier is fast enough). 

If you're not keeping track of ship locations, sure. But I haven't been sunk by a destroyer in I can't remember how long, because I keep track of them and stick with the fleet.

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10 minutes ago, cometguy said:

If you're not keeping track of ship locations, sure.

Newer carrier players probably have all their attention on trying to juggle their air groups and help their teams; it can be easy to lose control of this or that situational clue. In that context I suspect Farazelleth is right. The guide I watched was mostly pitched at newb CV players like me anyway; someone who's competent in higher tiers (a) doesn't need that trick as much and (b) can more easily afford/access the extra four skill points to obtain CE. IIRC he advocates for getting Air Supremacy first.

Edited by Ensign_Cthulhu

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4 minutes ago, cometguy said:

If you're not keeping track of ship locations, sure. But I haven't been sunk by a destroyer in I can't remember how long, because I keep track of them and stick with the fleet.

At lower tiers, DD CV Sniping will always occur. After Tier VI, DD CV sniping decreases significantly. You've seen my tactics so you have an idea of how I play.

11 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

I've seen Farazelleth argue against this, as being surface-spotted at closer range gives you less time to react and run (if your carrier is fast enough). 

If you are spotted in close range, you are already dead so running won't do anything but make you show broadside. You'd be better off praying for a miracle that your Secondaries will hit him because you can't and you will not be able to run once you are spotted (unless you are Independence). 

If you expect 28kt to outrun 35kt, you're an :fish_palm:

If you expect 20kt to outrun 28kt, your're an :fish_palm:

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1 minute ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Newer carrier players probably have all their attention on trying to juggle their air groups and help their teams; it can be easy to lose control of this or that situational clue. In that case I suspect Farazelleth is right. The guide I watch was mostly pitched at newb CV players like me anyway; someone who's competent in higher tiers (a) doesn't need that trick as much and (b) can more easily afford/access the extra four skill points to obtain CE. IIRC he advocates for getting Air Supremacy first.

Tracking is not a trick, it's a tactic that supports your team.

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1 minute ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Newer carrier players probably have all their attention on trying to juggle their air groups and help their teams; it can be easy to lose control of this or that situational clue. In that context I suspect Farazelleth is right. The guide I watched was mostly pitched at newb CV players like me anyway; someone who's competent in higher tiers (a) doesn't need that trick as much and (b) can more easily afford/access the extra four skill points to obtain CE. IIRC he advocates for getting Air Supremacy first.

Oh, I agree getting air supremecy first. The order I listed them in is the order I would prioritize them, so you'd have a 15 point CV captain. Surely by then, they'd be in a position to handle themselves.

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1 minute ago, Vangm94 said:

You'd be better off praying for a miracle that your Secondaries will hit him

Graf Zeppelin is nasty as hell against weakened CLs in the endgame. I suspect the one I was up against had a manual secondary build, because FFS did he ever take chunks out of me.

1 minute ago, Vangm94 said:

Tracking is not a trick

I didn't mean the word in a perjorative sense; apologies if you took it that way.

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1 minute ago, cometguy said:

Surely by then, they'd be in a position to handle themselves.

Sometimes you have to wonder. :Smile_teethhappy:

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At tier 6 manual drop is one of the skills you need to learn. But at tier 6 the AA suites of ships are much better. You need to learn which ships have good AA and avoid groups of ships. The combined AA will whipe whole squadrons. Considering you can face every tech tree from tier 5 through 8 thats alot of ships to try and remember. 

Now while doing all that you must watch the whole battle and decide who to help. The side pushing or the side being pushed. While watching out for those sneaky dasterdly DD's. 

Happy hunting.

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Respec your captain immediately, exchanging Expert Rear Gunner for Torpedo Acceleration, and Emergency Takeoff for Torpedo Armament Expertise.

ERG might do a little bit at T4 and T5 where there's no strafing, but any higher and its utility drops quite a bit. The range loss from TA doesn't matter at all for carrier torpedoes, the speed increase makes your drops significantly harder for destroyers to dodge especially when you get manual drops. Taking the skill now is just pure benefit, and it's better to get used to the faster torpedoes now than having to learn manual drops twice.

The argument for TAE over ET is a bit easier. ET only comes into effect when you're under attack, an uncommon situation that you should strive to make rare or nonexistent through better positioning and tactics. It is a crutch that will rarely save you when you need it most. On the other hand, TAE is active pretty much the entire game and is pure benefit, especially for IJN CVs that rely heavily on torpedo damage.

Edited by Flashtirade

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11 minutes ago, Flashtirade said:

Respec your captain immediately, exchanging Expert Rear Gunner for Torpedo Acceleration, and Emergency Takeoff for Torpedo Armament Expertise.

ERG might do a little bit at T4 and T5 where there's no strafing, but any higher and its utility drops quite a bit. The range loss from TA doesn't matter at all for carrier torpedoes, the speed increase makes your drops significantly harder for destroyers to dodge especially when you get manual drops. Taking the skill now is just pure benefit, and it's better to get used to the faster torpedoes now than having to learn manual drops twice.

The argument for TAE over ET is a bit easier. ET only comes into effect when you're under attack, an uncommon situation that you should strive to make rare or nonexistent through better positioning and tactics. It is a crutch that will rarely save you when you need it most. On the other hand, TAE is active pretty much the entire game and is pure benefit, especially for IJN CVs that rely heavily on torpedo damage.

^

  • ERG has it's uses but otherwise I might only have it because I had nothing else useful to put that point in
  • ET is only good for players who are willing to more or less get shot at, so basically just me. I use ET with LS because of how I play. Otherwise "most" CV players are too scared to move or be near the front for ET to ever be useful.
Edited by Vangm94

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Ok I'll grind some elite xp to respec my captain.  I want the Torpedo Acceleration instead of Expert RearGunner right?

Edited by torpsRus

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Your first 11 points should look like this:

http://shipcomrade.com/captcalc/0001010000010000001000000001000019

That will give you the best initial setup on any CV. 

What you want to stay away from these CV specific Captain Traits:

  • Evasive Maneuvering - You want your planes back to the CV as quickly as possible. The longer they take, the longer they're in the AA bubbles of enemy ships, and the more likely they are to be shot down.
  • Emergency Takeoff - Okay, so take whatever your servicing time is, double it, and remove every skill that lowers the reload time of DCP. Okay, your servicing time is STILL longer. So this skill is pointless. Plus if you're being shot, you have bigger problems.

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3 hours ago, Vangm94 said:

^

  • ERG has it's uses but otherwise I might only have it because I had nothing else useful to put that point in
  • ET is only good for players who are willing to more or less get shot at, so basically just me. I use ET with LS because of how I play. Otherwise "most" CV players are too scared to move or be near the front for ET to ever be useful.

Maybe combining ERG with the AA flag (which also boosts gunner effectiveness) could make for a dedicated low-tier sealclubber build. But I definitely wouldn't take that skill in the first 11 points.

I would consider ET if it was a 1 or 2-point skill because of how rare the situation is where putting up the next flight of planes would better save my ship from certain destruction than just breaking contact. At 3 points, it's too expensive even if the takeoff penalty was removed. Again, I wouldn't take this one in the first 11 points either.

Also I dunno about taking LS, I can't recall losing my engines frequently enough to warrant the investment. If I'm taking that much fire, I usually just die.

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1 minute ago, Flashtirade said:

Maybe combining ERG with the AA flag (which also boosts gunner effectiveness) could make for a dedicated low-tier sealclubber build. But I definitely wouldn't take that skill in the first 11 points.

I would consider ET if it was a 1 or 2-point skill because of how rare the situation is where putting up the next flight of planes would better save my ship from certain destruction than just breaking contact. At 3 points, it's too expensive even if the takeoff penalty was removed. Again, I wouldn't take this one in the first 11 points either.

Also I dunno about taking LS, I can't recall losing my engines frequently enough to warrant the investment. If I'm taking that much fire, I usually just die.

  • ERG has it's uses but I believe I have it because there was nothing else useful I could take
  • ET and LS are based on the player. If I am on fire, it means I am close to the enemy so I need my planes out. If I am getting fired upon, I cannot stop because if I do, I am dead. I am already dead so I rather go out fighting than turning away, going broadside, and sinking
  • Not many CV players play like I do. That is what makes me different, my video may show you how I play.

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AqZ3qiwQjWW9iluFcd0h_Gi8Jk3F

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4 minutes ago, Vangm94 said:
  • ERG has it's uses but I believe I have it because there was nothing else useful I could take
  • ET and LS are based on the player. If I am on fire, it means I am close to the enemy so I need my planes out. If I am getting fired upon, I cannot stop because if I do, I am dead. I am already dead so I rather go out fighting than turning away, going broadside, and sinking
  • Not many CV players play like I do. That is what makes me different, my video may show you how I play.

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AqZ3qiwQjWW9iluFcd0h_Gi8Jk3F

Something tells me you would enjoy the GZ.

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5 minutes ago, Flashtirade said:

Something tells me you would enjoy the GZ.

I am interested in GZ but it is mostly dependent on the amount of squads. Anymore than five total squads is too much of a hassle for me. Hence I sorta play Kaga and I don't got Enterprise.

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