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NoZoupForYou

USS Massachusetts - Fun and teaches players how to BB

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Massachusetts is fun.  More importantly she has had a positive effect on players despite having less accuracy than NC and Alabama.  Her secondaries are giving players the courage to play the way BBS should, and they’re seeing their damage go up.  

 

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Noice.

I'm still waiting for her to be available for purchase for non-Premium users, especially on Steam. x]

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Good video Zoup. I have to agree with your opinion on the Massachusetts, or at least part of it. It is undoubtedly a fun ship, probably the most fun ship I’ve played in a year or so. I enjoy the fact the ship rewards you for pushing and supporting your team. I will disagree however with your statement that Mamie’s secondaries do not compare with Bismarck. From my experience, Massachusetts’ secondaries actually surpass German secondaries. I’m pulling secondary damage numbers upwards of 70k, heights that I have yet to reach in any German BB. 

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4 minutes ago, Usedcarjock said:

I’m pulling secondary damage numbers upwards of 70k, heights that I have yet to reach in any German BB.

Youch.  IFHE or no?  I'm running without for the time being, but with BFT, AFT and DE.  Only seeing about half that so far.

-R

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2 minutes ago, Mister_Rawr said:

Youch.  IFHE or no?  I'm running without for the time being, but with BFT, AFT and DE.  Only seeing about half that so far.

-R

Yes IFHE. Don’t run DE it’s not worth it. 

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1 minute ago, Usedcarjock said:

Yes IFHE.

Thanks!  Yeah, it's my CA captain for grinding out elite Captain XP.  I'll have to start working up one of my near-19-pointers for a dedicated Mamie/CL driver.

-R

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2 minutes ago, AchievementsToYou said:

It's fun until RN BBs start firing HE at you. Then it's not so fun anymore.

Yea it’s not fun, but it’s also not fun for every other BB in the game. Mamie has the short heal cooldown, so she actually has a better way to deal with HE spam than other BBs.

Edited by Usedcarjock
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8 minutes ago, AchievementsToYou said:

It's fun until RN BBs start firing HE at you. Then it's not so fun anymore.

If you run the Aux Weapons upgrade in Slot 1, losing secondary turrets isn’t much of a concern.   I have to take a real, sustained beating to lose more than 1 or 2 in a game.  

It’s happened maybe twice for far and I had other problems to worry about at the time.

South dakota turrets are so tough you don’t need the extra main battery protection.

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5 minutes ago, Usedcarjock said:

Yea it’s not fun, but it’s also not fun for every other BB ship in the game.

Fixed that for you.

-R

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So far she's more fun than Alabama I brawled with a Tirpitz and won she's now my US captain trainer

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49 minutes ago, Usedcarjock said:

Good video Zoup. I have to agree with your opinion on the Massachusetts, or at least part of it. It is undoubtedly a fun ship, probably the most fun ship I’ve played in a year or so. I enjoy the fact the ship rewards you for pushing and supporting your team. I will disagree however with your statement that Mamie’s secondaries do not compare with Bismarck. From my experience, Massachusetts’ secondaries actually surpass German secondaries. I’m pulling secondary damage numbers upwards of 70k, heights that I have yet to reach in any German BB. 

I think I should have been more specific.  Without IFHE I don’t think there as good... but adding IFHE (which is a steep price) does bump the secondaries to god level.

Actually...  Mass might be a good trainer for my USN CLs...

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Sorry @NoZoupForYou - glad you're excited about the Massachusetts like the rest of us, but going to have to call you out on a few things in your video.

1.  Massacusetts' secondaries are better than German secondaries.  German secondaries just don't put out the damage that properly specced Massachsetts can.  Edit:  I see you corrected your position while I was typing.  Which is related to. . .

2.  20k damage a game in secondaries means you don't have the right skills, aren't playing her right.   A Massachusetts will produce between 30k and 60k secondary damage in a decent game.  I've had it as high as 80k in good games.  German secondaries just can't match that.

3.  Some of us have been brawling in all kinds of ships, including USN battleships, forever.  We've just now been given the right tool to do it, which is why you're seeing so much success with her.  We've been playing hard mode this whole time.

4.  Many of us have been screaming for exactly this ship since closed beta.  It's unfortunate it's taken WG this long to get over their irrational hatred of useful secondaries. . . but we're glad they finally did for ships other than a handful of German ones (and Ark Beta most recently).  Now they're going to get rewarded with huge sales of this ship they've finally given to the brawler community.

5.  It would be nice if they buffed the RoF of 5"/38 secondary turrets - especially on cruisers - to the Massachusetts current historical level.  Don't give them the extended range, or the additional accuracy that Massachusetts gets, but give them a reasonable RoF at least.  For U.S. cruisers in particular, this would be a nice "flavor" that balances their lack of torpedoes.

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I like mine but I haven't played well in her, but I am way, way, way, way too aggressive. Basically, "[edited] all y'all, I'm charging in." Maybe if I treated her a little more like a heavy cruiser early on.

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I having a hard time trying to justify a other 53$ into the game for a other US bb premium. Still got 3 others that I hardly play, I play Missouri the most

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The potato BB players will still try to snipe from farther away then they should. Mass is doing well right now because "good" players are using her. We now get to watch the stats plummet as the potato's start buying it because everyone is saying its amazing. Dont worry things will go back to normal soon. The prevalence of the USN light cruisers is also helping this new fangled pushing bb trend.

Edited by MackDye

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I have been up-tiered a LOT. Most of my games are against T10 BB's in which case this is just a battle cruiser. It would be more fun if I were up against T9 or T8 BB's. That is the biggest downside of this ship. 

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48 minutes ago, TheDreadnought said:

Sorry @NoZoupForYou - glad you're excited about the Massachusetts like the rest of us, but going to have to call you out on a few things in your video.

1.  Massacusetts' secondaries are better than German secondaries.  German secondaries just don't put out the damage that properly specced Massachsetts can.  Edit:  I see you corrected your position while I was typing.  Which is related to. . .

2.  20k damage a game in secondaries means you don't have the right skills, aren't playing her right.   A Massachusetts will produce between 30k and 60k secondary damage in a decent game.  I've had it as high as 80k in good games.  German secondaries just can't match that.

3.  Some of us have been brawling in all kinds of ships, including USN battleships, forever.  We've just now been given the right tool to do it, which is why you're seeing so much success with her.  We've been playing hard mode this whole time.

4.  Many of us have been screaming for exactly this ship since closed beta.  It's unfortunate it's taken WG this long to get over their irrational hatred of useful secondaries. . . but we're glad they finally did for ships other than a handful of German ones (and Ark Beta most recently).  Now they're going to get rewarded with huge sales of this ship they've finally given to the brawler community.

5.  It would be nice if they buffed the RoF of 5"/38 secondary turrets - especially on cruisers - to the Massachusetts current historical level.  Don't give them the extended range, or the additional accuracy that Massachusetts gets, but give them a reasonable RoF at least.  For U.S. cruisers in particular, this would be a nice "flavor" that balances their lack of torpedoes.

Why are you saying sorry?

I agree that there are numerous players who do very well with secondary brawling battleships.   I also think that there are some players that  do not play that way, and now have been exposed to it because of the way the ship plays.  I merely touched on the later in the video.

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I played 1 battle so far we lost, however at least I was the first place loser. The Captain did not have manual secondaries. Right now I have only three 19 point captains. I have one in Gearing, which I use in my premium Destroyers. I have one in Des Moines, which I use in my premium Cruisers. I have one in my Montana, which I use in my Premium Battleships. I now have to have a Captain designated to just the Massachusetts.

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2 hours ago, NoZoupForYou said:

Massachusetts is fun.  More importantly she has had a positive effect on players despite having less accuracy than NC and Alabama.  Her secondaries are giving players the courage to play the way BBS should, and they’re seeing their damage go up.

Isn't it giving courage to play "the way BBS should" only because it's secondaries actually perform? Not all BBs should be so eager to brawl right away like that. Not saying they should all be sniping, but if their secondaries are limp noodles spraying shells like an old guy with a prostate problem they shouldn't be so eager to close the gap right away. They don't have that secondary advantage that will tip the scale in their favor.

Personally I want to see ALL BBs get the Massachusetts treatment. All BB secondaries of every nation should perform closer to their historical capabilities (including Mikasa lol). EDIT: I know it will change the dynamic of the game but games would also be faster paced.

Edited by MrSparkle
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2 hours ago, NoZoupForYou said:

Her secondaries are giving players the courage to play the way BBS should

Reminds me of the bit in the 2001: A Space Odyssey novel version, where the leopard has the ape-men cornered in their blind-ended cave. Trouble for the leopard is, the ape-men have recently developed clubs and spears.

"...but now that they were cornered, desperation had given them the courage to attempt the impossible. And for the first time, they had the means to achieve it."

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1 minute ago, MrSparkle said:

All BB secondaries of every nation should perform closer to their historical capabilities (including Mikasa lol).

Mikasa's secondaries perform EXACTLY how pre-dreadnought secondaries should, except for their range - that does not correspond to real life. The real problem in game is the terrible performance of her primaries. If WG would let her mount the Aiming COntrol Mod 0 system that Katori and Yubari have, it would be a very different matter - but Mikasa was the flagship of the fleet responsible for Russia's greatest naval embarrassment, so I don't think we'll see that happen anytime soon.

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33 minutes ago, Ensign_Cthulhu said:

Mikasa's secondaries perform EXACTLY how pre-dreadnought secondaries should, except for their range - that does not correspond to real life. The real problem in game is the terrible performance of her primaries. If WG would let her mount the Aiming COntrol Mod 0 system that Katori and Yubari have, it would be a very different matter - but Mikasa was the flagship of the fleet responsible for Russia's greatest naval embarrassment, so I don't think we'll see that happen anytime soon.

I do mean their range though. 3.0 km is laughable. If they had range they'd be performing just fine IMO. The main guns are even more laughable though, yes. I mean wth. I know I know, balance blah blah blah but WG is very selective about it's "balance", making sure some ships are so "balanced" they underperform and then throwing balance out the window with other ships making them OP.

With Massachusetts I think they got it right. Slightly less main gun accuracy, much more potent secondaries, and less of that retarded Romulan cloaking device mechanic called concealment (which I use whenever I can even if I don't like it). It's about as close to how a BB should be as I've seen so far, excepting certain German BBs.

Edited by MrSparkle

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I'm having a lot of success with this bad [edited]ship.  I don't even have manual secondaries or BFT on it.  I'm tempted to stick fire prevention on instead.  she's bad [edited].  

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4 hours ago, NoZoupForYou said:

Massachusetts is fun.  More importantly she has had a positive effect on players despite having less accuracy than NC and Alabama.  Her secondaries are giving players the courage to play the way BBS should, and they’re seeing their damage go up.  

 

Zoup, some thoughts.

1. I disagree with your comment here about "playing the way BBs should play".  Bovine excrement.  The way that BBs should play is that they should play to the OWN strengths.  If you're in a BB with weak secondaries but good mid range accuracy, and you're up against an German BB, you SHOULD play at mid range.  OTOH, if you're in a strong secondary BB going against a good mid range BB, of course you want to close into secondary range is the smart thing to so.  It's called playing to YOUR battleship's strengths, not some foolish expectation about what all battleships "should do"!!!

2. ***IF*** WG would like to see more BB players (regardless of nation) brawling, the solution is brain dead dirt simple.  Give all BBs strong secondaries, the way they should have from the very beginning.  Note that this doesn't mean that all BBs would have secondaries that were equally strong.  Or that those secondaries would be "strong" in the same way.  Different BBs and different nations may have different ways of going about having effective secondaries.  Some might have a strong battery of 6" guns with weaker smallish caliber dual purpose guns.  And others, like the USN BBs, might just have a strong suite of 5" DP guns.  Some nations might fire a mix of AP and HE, while others might to 100% HE.  Some might be a little more reliant on direct damage while others might rely on fires a bit more.  And so on and so on.

Honestly, I don't see this lack of all BBs having strong secondaries as a balance thing.  I see it as a very bad design decision thing.

 

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