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Reymu

Free XP to GK?

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The campfest meta has proven very problematic for my secondary-build freddy. If high-tier ships could get smaller maps like Solomon's Islands, that'd be a big help, but meh, this BB doesn't really mesh well for me.

Hit 110K XP w/ her, so the free XP cost isn't too bad (sitting on 848K atm), but not sure I want to go secondary GK cause it is the same freaking meta...that said, timed well, the behemoth takes a while to put down , so it seems it could be fun.

Kinda looking to fellow GK owners. Campfest is basically do or die at this point since WG rewards damage done over playing for objectives.

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Do you already have musashi, krohnstadt, nelson? If not may want to save free xp?

Edited by monpetitloup

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Secondary build battleships are obsolete past T8 really. 
The show stops at Tirpitz/Bismarck and Richeliue + Massachusetts. After that ships start getting enough armor to heavily resist secondary hits and it just makes them worthless. I'd never run my FDG as secondary build, and I never get close enough anyway. People seem to be wary of high tier german BB being close, although in T10 MM people seem (mistakenly) happy to let my Bismarck close in, so I often have interesting games.

If you want GK, you'll have to revamp your build. I'd suggest playing a clan-battle for the free captain retrains and then respeccing your captain for a more general BB build.

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16 minutes ago, monpetitloup said:

Do you already have musashi, krohnstadt, nelson? If not may want to save free xp?

None have appeal. Yuro's review on Musashi convinced me it's not worth it. Kron can't handle brawling as well as my Hindy. Nelson is an oddball design, no interest.

 

8 minutes ago, Seniorious said:

Secondary build battleships are obsolete past T8 really. 
The show stops at Tirpitz/Bismarck and Richeliue + Massachusetts. After that ships start getting enough armor to heavily resist secondary hits and it just makes them worthless. I'd never run my FDG as secondary build, and I never get close enough anyway. People seem to be wary of high tier german BB being close, although in T10 MM people seem (mistakenly) happy to let my Bismarck close in, so I often have interesting games.

If you want GK, you'll have to revamp your build. I'd suggest playing a clan-battle for the free captain retrains and then respeccing your captain for a more general BB build.

Bah! If WG would change max spotting to 14km, it'd be easier to go full secondary :/

Guess respec the captain for survival build and get the -7% dispersion mod. Hate this campfest!

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21 minutes ago, Reymu said:

 

Guess respec the captain for survival build and get the -7% dispersion mod. Hate this campfest!

Pretty much what I did. Mounted the -7% dispersion mod and honestly, the FDG guns do feel more reliable than Bismarck. Both in damage, penetration, and accuracy. Almost QE like. They feel weighty to me, so it works out. I play her like a Bismarck that traded off some of her close in utility to have a more significant main battery. 
Highly recommend going for the 4pt Fire Prevention skill too, more so than concealment expert. 
I'd run Preventa- Mainten, Andrenaline-Rush, Superintendent, and FP for 10pts. For 15pts, choose Vigilance or BoS for 3pts + High Alert for 2pts. 
If you're running BoS, you also should probably run damage control module over ruddershift + the -20% fire duration flag. At that point single and even double fires won't really bother you much, and with SI + premium heal you get 5 to sustain with. Most of the time, I'd say Vigilance isn't necessary in the current meta, when you can just 'smartly' use the Hydro as needed. You could spec it at 18pts and put the 19th into double floatplane which would maximize your survivability in all situations, but in the same way, you could also just pick another 4pt perk over that 3+1pt like getting Manual AA for extra flyswatting or go for concealment expert to reduce your visibility. Once you've already specced this far, Manual secondaries are no longer worth getting anymore. You'd probably get more use out of RPF or going for a mixture of lower skill points, like spending the last 4pts from a 15pt captain to a 19pt captain in Expert Marksman for turret traverse and Jack of All trades to further reduce your consumable cooldowns. 

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2 hours ago, Reymu said:

None have appeal. Yuro's review on Musashi convinced me it's not worth it. Kron can't handle brawling as well as my Hindy. Nelson is an oddball design, no interest.

 

Bah! If WG would change max spotting to 14km, it'd be easier to go full secondary :/

Guess respec the captain for survival build and get the -7% dispersion mod. Hate this campfest!

I mean to each their own, but don’t let someone else’s review make you think they aren’t great ships. If you have the Yamato I understand not wanting the Musashi. The Kron is a great ship though and really can’t be compared to any other in game ship imo. It’s way too good. The Nelson is pretty fun and unique. The other plus to having them is you have tier 9 premiums for grinding commander xp and also credits. Always nice to be able to move captains around. My Moskva captain fits pretty well with the Kron.

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24 minutes ago, Belyy_Klyk said:

. The Nelson is pretty fun and unique. 

An understatement for sure, Nelson qualifies as one of the best Tier 7 battleships because of her design. A battery of 3x3 406mm rifles all forward placed with minimum angle needed to make all the turrets get on target with strong accuracy compared to her other 16" rivals and better HE to boot, combined with relatively little superstructure and a powerful heal make her very strong across the board. The high citadel is a big negative for sure though. In my DoY I've devstruck the Nelson in close range because of it, and even my Prinz Eugen citadels Nelson with ease. I currently have around 98k fxp in the bank, and unless WG manages to release a more attractive ship for fxp that doesn't cost 750k, Nelson is my target. 
I'd say that more so than Yuro's meme review, he should look at this more: 

Really though, it's all in the title. 
Musashi is a Yamato with average BB accuracy basically instead of Godly Yammy dispersion and less AA at one tier lower.
Which means she's overpowered because now she gets to overmatch T7 ships and that's broken as [edited], besides her armor and HP advantage. 
She also doesn't print credits like Missouri and doesn't have a gimmick like Missouri, so thus the 'Uninteresting' part. 

As both of them ask, if you have 950k XP, why not just get Yamato instead or Missouri if she returns? 
I don't like Mushi so it's a no automatically, and I personally already own Moskva so Kronstadt doesn't interest me either. 
Nelson is interesting though because price point and tiering, T7 is known to be a favorable tier for MM and a home for many OP premium ships. 
I think WG should really churn out more FXP ships instead of handing us the Arsenal deal.

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50 minutes ago, Seniorious said:

and I personally already own Moskva so Kronstadt doesn't interest me either. 
Nelson is interesting though because price point and tiering, T7 is known to be a favorable tier for MM and a home for many OP premium ships. 
I think WG should really churn out more FXP ships instead of handing us the Arsenal deal.

Well the Kron is like the Moskva in a sense that it has good guns and meh concealment but it is a very good ship. Better concealment and 305mm instead of 220mm... that is massive. It’s a BB labeled as a cruiser. You should at least look into it. I feel like the only way anyone should not get this is if they hate that kind of gameplay. It’s a really versatile ship that is very very strong for the tier. I mean 9,000 alpha on a cruiser is insane. 

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39 minutes ago, Belyy_Klyk said:

Well the Kron is like the Moskva in a sense that it has good guns and meh concealment but it is a very good ship. Better concealment and 305mm instead of 220mm... that is massive. It’s a BB labeled as a cruiser. You should at least look into it. I feel like the only way anyone should not get this is if they hate that kind of gameplay. It’s a really versatile ship that is very very strong for the tier. I mean 9,000 alpha on a cruiser is insane. 

It's also 20s reload instead of 10s, lacks the HE DPM of Moskva, and the AA range of Moskva, and also the agility of Moskva, the speed of Moskva, the range of Moskva, the bow armor of Moskva, deck armor of Moskva...…
Most things Kronshtadt can do, Moskva does the same. I've seen from clanmates that it does excel at punching BB armor, better than Moskva, but still. It lacks universal versatility, and I just know that while playing it I'll be thinking "If I had my Moskva I could do this, or that....that DD wouldn't have escaped....my extra reload would've made a difference here, etc etc". I don't particularly want that in a premium ship. I do own Iowa, but I'd buy Missouri because she specifically prints credits and has that radar. 
Nelson is significantly different from my Scharnhorst, and my KGV, and my DoY. 
Even Prinz Eugen and Hipper now significantly differ. Kronshtadt just sounds like a mix of different things in a ship that doesn't function in certain roles as well as it should. Unique? Perhaps, in it's own way, but I'd still end up drawing comparison. I've yet to see a Kronshtadt do well in a game. Noone claims it's a must buy 'gudbote' either. It's good yes, strong yes, but in a way like Missouri? No. Like Scharnhorst? No. 
Meh. This is my mindset anyway. You're entitled to yours. 

I do find it really frustrating that the massive Kronshtadt has better concealment than Moskva though. What. The. %$&*%. 

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15 minutes ago, Seniorious said:

It's also 20s reload instead of 10s, lacks the HE DPM of Moskva, and the AA range of Moskva, and also the agility of Moskva, the speed of Moskva, the range of Moskva, the bow armor of Moskva, deck armor of Moskva...…
Most things Kronshtadt can do, Moskva does the same. I've seen from clanmates that it does excel at punching BB armor, better than Moskva, but still. It lacks universal versatility, and I just know that while playing it I'll be thinking "If I had my Moskva I could do this, or that....that DD wouldn't have escaped....my extra reload would've made a difference here, etc etc". I don't particularly want that in a premium ship. I do own Iowa, but I'd buy Missouri because she specifically prints credits and has that radar. 
Nelson is significantly different from my Scharnhorst, and my KGV, and my DoY. 
Even Prinz Eugen and Hipper now significantly differ. Kronshtadt just sounds like a mix of different things in a ship that doesn't function in certain roles as well as it should. Unique? Perhaps, in it's own way, but I'd still end up drawing comparison. I've yet to see a Kronshtadt do well in a game. Noone claims it's a must buy 'gudbote' either. It's good yes, strong yes, but in a way like Missouri? No. Like Scharnhorst? No. 
Meh. This is my mindset anyway. You're entitled to yours. 

I do find it really frustrating that the massive Kronshtadt has better concealment than Moskva though. What. The. %$&*%. 

Well remember you are comparing a tier 10 to a tier 9... and it’s an 18.5s vs 10.35s. Not go pick at details but 8.15s difference in reload time is not bad for the guns. Also 1kt slowed and tighter turning circle but slower rudder shift. I mean if you don’t want it, don’t get it. But I have yet to meet someone who doesn’t claim it is worthwhile. Also just to throw this out there... with premium and credit flags and just standard premium camo I am bringing in over 1 million credits per game. Granted I only have 7 games with 53k average damage. Low damage is because 2 games I just chose the wrong side and it was like a 13-0 win for us. It might not have a credit boost like Missouri but it is good at removing DD’s which as you know provide some excellent XP and credits. 

Also compare it more to the Dmitri’s 12.5s reload on the 180’s.

Edited by Belyy_Klyk

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If you didn't enjoy how matches are played in high tier while using Bismarck and FDG, I really suggest not FreeXP'ing to GK.  By all means, finish the grind and see what it's like.  You may like GK more as she actually has a useful amount of guns compared to the mediocre 8 of Tier VIII-IX.  But it's not necessarily going to be much easier.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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I've been in a similar dilemma to the OP, questioning if I should FXP to the Großer Kurfürst. It's just so disheartening to see entire salvos go out of their way to find their way AROUND my target instead of into it. But I can't justify spending 45 dollars on the doubloons needed to free up the XP required to research the Großer Kurfürst. At least FDG is starting to click with me a little bit.

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13 hours ago, Seniorious said:

Pretty much what I did. Mounted the -7% dispersion mod and honestly, the FDG guns do feel more reliable than Bismarck. Both in damage, penetration, and accuracy. Almost QE like. They feel weighty to me, so it works out. I play her like a Bismarck that traded off some of her close in utility to have a more significant main battery. 
Highly recommend going for the 4pt Fire Prevention skill too, more so than concealment expert. 
I'd run Preventa- Mainten, Andrenaline-Rush, Superintendent, and FP for 10pts. For 15pts, choose Vigilance or BoS for 3pts + High Alert for 2pts. 
If you're running BoS, you also should probably run damage control module over ruddershift + the -20% fire duration flag. At that point single and even double fires won't really bother you much, and with SI + premium heal you get 5 to sustain with. Most of the time, I'd say Vigilance isn't necessary in the current meta, when you can just 'smartly' use the Hydro as needed. You could spec it at 18pts and put the 19th into double floatplane which would maximize your survivability in all situations, but in the same way, you could also just pick another 4pt perk over that 3+1pt like getting Manual AA for extra flyswatting or go for concealment expert to reduce your visibility. Once you've already specced this far, Manual secondaries are no longer worth getting anymore. You'd probably get more use out of RPF or going for a mixture of lower skill points, like spending the last 4pts from a 15pt captain to a 19pt captain in Expert Marksman for turret traverse and Jack of All trades to further reduce your consumable cooldowns. 

Something to figure out later. Freddy captain's at 16 points, and I've gotten used to the 13km detect from both CE skills. I'm not sure HA matters too much since 10% off a DCII is just 14 seconds--kinda prefer JoaT to get the other consumables off CD quicker.

At present, CVs are so rare (and HE spam prevalent enough) that AA builds are largely a waste on most BBs anyway.

11 hours ago, Seniorious said:

An understatement for sure, Nelson qualifies as one of the best Tier 7 battleships because of her design. A battery of 3x3 406mm rifles all forward placed with minimum angle needed to make all the turrets get on target with strong accuracy compared to her other 16" rivals and better HE to boot, combined with relatively little superstructure and a powerful heal make her very strong across the board. The high citadel is a big negative for sure though. In my DoY I've devstruck the Nelson in close range because of it, and even my Prinz Eugen citadels Nelson with ease. I currently have around 98k fxp in the bank, and unless WG manages to release a more attractive ship for fxp that doesn't cost 750k, Nelson is my target. 

As both of them ask, if you have 950k XP, why not just get Yamato instead or Missouri if she returns? 

I don't like Mushi so it's a no automatically, and I personally already own Moskva so Kronstadt doesn't interest me either. 
Nelson is interesting though because price point and tiering, T7 is known to be a favorable tier for MM and a home for many OP premium ships. 
I think WG should really churn out more FXP ships instead of handing us the Arsenal deal.

Maybe, but after doing Izumo, I'm less keen on ships designed similarly.

Already have Missouri.

9 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

If you didn't enjoy who matches are played in high tier while using Bismarck and FDG, I really suggest not FreeXP'ing to GK.  By all means, finish the grind and see what it's like.  You may like GK more as she actually has a useful amount of guns compared to the mediocre 8 of Tier VIII-IX.  But it's not necessarily going to be much easier.

Brawling is fun enough I kept Bismarck, but when uptiered, there's too much campfest, so yeah, I'll take Seniorious's advice and make my FGD a real pain in the neck to defeat instead. I got to sample the GK (during space battles event) and the MB accuracy didn't seem too bad--might as well go survival build. "Why won't he die???"

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1 hour ago, Reymu said:

Brawling is fun enough I kept Bismarck, but when uptiered, there's too much campfest, so yeah, I'll take Seniorious's advice and make my FGD a real pain in the neck to defeat instead. I got to sample the GK (during space battles event) and the MB accuracy didn't seem too bad--might as well go survival build. "Why won't he die???"

A big difference between Nelson and Izumo is that the 3rd turret faces forwards, not backwards. Instead of swinging all the way around when you change sides, all the turrets swing around the forward arc, so it's pretty much impossible to throw off the rear turret. It stays in the game and in alignment with the two front turrets provided you have enough angle to expose that 3rd turret, which I hear isn't much necessary. 

Aye, a good decision. My clanmate that often plays GK when we T10 division says people have regularly questioned why his GK just won't die, and I assume it's because his build is survival. Still the king of HP pool, and effective health because of this with heals is quite monstrous. 
As Haze says, a large difference between FDG and GK is that GK has a 3x4 turret setup instead of the 2x4, which means an extra four shells going down range on broadsides, and you get a 6 gun front salvo instead of 4. GK plays like a Titan in Tier 10, a role that the other battleships just don't. Slow, vulnerable to the smol metal fishes; but your tank capability and offensive punishment is very heavy. 

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33 minutes ago, Seniorious said:

A big difference between Nelson and Izumo is that the 3rd turret faces forwards, not backwards. Instead of swinging all the way around when you change sides, all the turrets swing around the forward arc, so it's pretty much impossible to throw off the rear turret. It stays in the game and in alignment with the two front turrets provided you have enough angle to expose that 3rd turret, which I hear isn't much necessary. 

Aye, a good decision. My clanmate that often plays GK when we T10 division says people have regularly questioned why his GK just won't die, and I assume it's because his build is survival. Still the king of HP pool, and effective health because of this with heals is quite monstrous. 
As Haze says, a large difference between FDG and GK is that GK has a 3x4 turret setup instead of the 2x4, which means an extra four shells going down range on broadsides, and you get a 6 gun front salvo instead of 4. GK plays like a Titan in Tier 10, a role that the other battleships just don't. Slow, vulnerable to the smol metal fishes; but your tank capability and offensive punishment is very heavy. 

Well, given I'm just reluctant to spend FXP to buy what'll easily be another port queen, I will probably let it be for when current RN BB captain is close to 17 points (currently 15) and so could use a trainer. Current 19-point captains are US, German, and IJN; kinda prefer using premiums to farm elite XP.

Keep rudder mod or swap for DC? I tend to rely more on WASD for dodging and smart use of hydro. Found that regular AP pens are the most deadly for bringing down KMS BBs aside from torps.

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2 hours ago, Reymu said:

Keep rudder mod or swap for DC? I tend to rely more on WASD for dodging and smart use of hydro. Found that regular AP pens are the most deadly for bringing down KMS BBs aside from torps.

'The Great Flamu' who's influence took me from a typical noob with no mechanics knowledge of the game to someone who can actually have a 60% WR or similar on most ships uses DC on Bismarck, but much like you I quite like my rudder for kicking the rear guns in and out of action and WASD hax. I plan to eventually test using DC instead though.

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I completely free xp past the FDG to get the Kurfurst because I find the FDG to be pretty much the same as the Bismarck except that it gets up tiered. So better for me to keep the Bismarck and skip the FDG completely and use the credits to buy the Kurfurst instead.

This is just from my perspective.

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17 hours ago, Reymu said:

Brawling is fun enough I kept Bismarck, but when uptiered, there's too much campfest, so yeah, I'll take Seniorious's advice and make my FGD a real pain in the neck to defeat instead. I got to sample the GK (during space battles event) and the MB accuracy didn't seem too bad--might as well go survival build. "Why won't he die???"

That's a common complaint with German BBs as players were making their way up the tiers, and as time progressed after the line's release.

 

I do also recall doing the Main Battery Build with GK right around when I first got her.  I experimented a lot, Secondaries, Main Battery Build, even an insane AA Build (wasn't too serious in this case).  The guns will behave a bit better in MB Build.  ASM1 + MBM3 and you're okay.  Since you're not doing a Secondary Build that frees up tons of points if you do go the Survival Build.

 

Eventually, I persisted with the Secondaries Build on GK.  I was actually pretty close to sticking to MB Build.  The only reason I did so was variety.  I already had Montana, and GK in Secondaries Build was a unique experience for Tier X BBs.

15 hours ago, Reymu said:

Keep rudder mod or swap for DC? I tend to rely more on WASD for dodging and smart use of hydro. Found that regular AP pens are the most deadly for bringing down KMS BBs aside from torps.

Personally, I have been switching more of my IX-X Battleships to DCSM2 instead of SGM2.  Smarter sailing mitigates a lot of threats.  Typically I still recommend SGM2 but better sailing helps and the benefit of DCSM2 is always going to be there when you are getting shelled and fires set.  Consider that DCSM2's benefits stack with your Survival / Fire Prevention Build.

 

Another reason I elected to go with DCSM2?  Even with SGM2, Tier IX-X BBs turn like sh*t.  In contrast, my lower tier, more nimble BBs I still keep SGM2 fitted.  You have for example, BBs in Tier VII-VIII that are fast and maneuverable, so SGM2 to me made the sailing characteristics much nicer.  Alabama and Massachusetts turn so sweeeeet.  Scharnhorst is fast and handles great.  But to me Tier IX-X, they still sailed like dead yaks even with SGM2.  A Tier X BB is also monstrous and easy to hit, and you of course know, a lot of those shells coming will be HE.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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20 hours ago, Seniorious said:

'The Great Flamu' who's influence took me from a typical noob with no mechanics knowledge of the game to someone who can actually have a 60% WR or similar on most ships uses DC on Bismarck, but much like you I quite like my rudder for kicking the rear guns in and out of action and WASD hax. I plan to eventually test using DC instead though.

 

7 hours ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

That's a common complaint with German BBs as players were making their way up the tiers, and as time progressed after the line's release.

 

I do also recall doing the Main Battery Build with GK right around when I first got her.  I experimented a lot, Secondaries, Main Battery Build, even an insane AA Build (wasn't too serious in this case).  The guns will behave a bit better in MB Build.  ASM1 + MBM3 and you're okay.  Since you're not doing a Secondary Build that frees up tons of points if you do go the Survival Build.

 

Eventually, I persisted with the Secondaries Build on GK.  I was actually pretty close to sticking to MB Build.  The only reason I did so was variety.  I already had Montana, and GK in Secondaries Build was a unique experience for Tier X BBs.

Personally, I have been switching more of my IX-X Battleships to DCSM2 instead of SGM2.  Smarter sailing mitigates a lot of threats.  Typically I still recommend SGM2 but better sailing helps and the benefit of DCSM2 is always going to be there when you are getting shelled and fires set.  Consider that DCSM2's benefits stack with your Survival / Fire Prevention Build.

 

Another reason I elected to go with DCSM2?  Even with SGM2, Tier IX-X BBs turn like sh*t.  In contrast, my lower tier, more nimble BBs I still keep SGM2 fitted.  You have for example, BBs in Tier VII-VIII that are fast and maneuverable, so SGM2 to me made the sailing characteristics much nicer.  Alabama and Massachusetts turn so sweeeeet.  Scharnhorst is fast and handles great.  But to me Tier IX-X, they still sailed like dead yaks even with SGM2.  A Tier X BB is also monstrous and easy to hit, and you of course know, a lot of those shells coming will be HE.

Even without SGM2 Kurfurst still turns a bit sooner than Yamato, so I went DC. Thinking-ahead playstyle is similar enough to Yamato that took to it easily.

Only 1 battle so far, but the MB accuracy on FDG is noticeably better w/ the -7%. I'll take that. Plus, given the ship's maneuverability, EM is less necessary (running JoaT for my sole T2 skill).

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No way I would pass on Nelson.  Totally unique and won't be around forever.  Only T7 with super heal also.  I love that boat.

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On 7/4/2018 at 6:06 PM, Seniorious said:

Secondary build battleships are obsolete past T8 really. 
The show stops at Tirpitz/Bismarck and Richeliue + Massachusetts. After that ships start getting enough armor to heavily resist secondary hits and it just makes them worthless. I'd never run my FDG as secondary build, and I never get close enough anyway. People seem to be wary of high tier german BB being close, although in T10 MM people seem (mistakenly) happy to let my Bismarck close in, so I often have interesting games.

If you want GK, you'll have to revamp your build. I'd suggest playing a clan-battle for the free captain retrains and then respeccing your captain for a more general BB build.

And you nailed the problem in the head.  Secondary builds damage drops off significantly at T9 or against T9.  In one of my last matches in the FDG I had around 200 secondary hits...for eight thousand damage.  One fire,  for seven hundred damage.  And this isn't the exception to the rule,  it IS the rule.  And that's assuming you get into range of something to begin with.

Even IFHE doesn't seem to fix the problem.  I went that route with my Richie to experiment a bit and the damage was still atrocious.  At eighteen points it might alleviate the issue when I can pick up both IFHE and Manual secondaries but I have a feeling it won't.  My secondaries were hitting when I had IFHE,  they just weren't doing anything to the targets.  It was frustrating.

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16 hours ago, Palladia said:

And you nailed the problem in the head.  Secondary builds damage drops off significantly at T9 or against T9.  In one of my last matches in the FDG I had around 200 secondary hits...for eight thousand damage.  One fire,  for seven hundred damage.  And this isn't the exception to the rule,  it IS the rule.  And that's assuming you get into range of something to begin with.

Even IFHE doesn't seem to fix the problem.  I went that route with my Richie to experiment a bit and the damage was still atrocious.  At eighteen points it might alleviate the issue when I can pick up both IFHE and Manual secondaries but I have a feeling it won't.  My secondaries were hitting when I had IFHE,  they just weren't doing anything to the targets.  It was frustrating.

Just to make it fair, Richelieu actually has terrible secondaries.  Yes, they reach far, but the amount of guns she has, their rate of fire, is very subpar.  The amount of shells Richelieu secondaries throw was one of the most disappointing things I have experienced in a Battleship in over a year.  In contrast, Secondaries on Alsace, Republique are excellent.

Edited by HazeGrayUnderway

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8 minutes ago, HazeGrayUnderway said:

Just to make it fair, Richelieu actually has terrible secondaries.  Yes, they reach far, but the amount of guns she has, their rate of fire, is very subpar.  The amount of shells Richelieu secondaries through was one of the most disappointing things I have experienced in a Battleship in over a year.  In contrast, Secondaries on Alsace, Republique are excellent.

Her 152's are good at setting fires.  They actually deal decent damage to most CA's and CL's at her tier but up tier they just can't hang.   Her 100mms were just...worthless.  

On the Alsace now but haven't had a good chance to work with her secondaries.  Only got in a match with her and still working up her experience so she's at 10km for her secondaries and my only match was a nasty sniping match.  It was fun but...I mean pretty obviously I like mah brawls.  Super excited about that 152 mounted on her bow.

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Alsace's 100mm secondaries can't cause damage to anything except DD superstructure (well, and the rare T7 is sees).  They HAVE to have IFHE if they're gonna do anything but start fires.

Republique's 127mm, on the other hand, punch through a lot more, even without IFHE.

 

The Bismark and FDG have identical secondaries, and the Bismarks only look better because it occasionally sees T6 ships whose armor is completely useless against 150mm and still takes massive damage against 105mm (with the increased German pen).  But both Bis and FDG do OK against T8-10, as they can pen any part of a CA or BB except the main belts and turrets with their 150mm, though the 105mm are mostly useless for anything but fire.

The Gneisenau and the GKF, however, have 128mm (and 150mm in the FDG's case), both of which murder stuff. The 128mm can pen 31mm of armor, which means that it goes through ALL cruiser and DD armors (except belt), and easily through BB superstructure and secondary/AA guns.  The 150mm goes through pretty much everything else on a BB except the big thick armor spots.

 

The T10 French and KM BBs are not a joke when it comes to secondary damage. It's easy to cause 20k in just one fight with another BB. They're also good for scaring away CAs and rushing DDs, as in the time it takes to close from 12km to 8km, both can easily deal 10k in damage.

 

Sadly, yeah, the Richelieu's secondaries are badly in need of a buff. I'd recommend WG drop the dispersion by a third, or whatever needs to happen so that they score at least 25-30% more hits.

 

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