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TheDreadnought

Massachusetts - The Verdict

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So I did a data capture exercise on Massachusetts to see which build will be best.   I haven't done the alternate builds yet, but I've completed 31 games on what I would consider the "default" build, which is enough for a statistical sample, and will tell us whether the Massachusetts is good, or the trashboat that some claim.   Along the way I'll debunk some other myths. 

Here are the results:

Solo Win Rate:  61% 
Exactly the same as my Alabama actually

Tier Distribution:
Tier 8:     12 (39%)
Tier 9:       8 (26%)
Tier 10:   11 (35%)

So stories about "always" being uptiered at Tier 8 are false.

Average Damage:  96,515 
My poor Alabama, which I run as a brawler is only 67,994.  That difference is entirely due to the effectiveness of the secondaries, as we will see.

Average Secondary Damage:  24,873
This considers shell hits only!  It does not include the fire damage.

Average Fire Damage:  7,022
Secondary fires only.  I didn't use any HE shells from my main battery during the trial

% of Total Damage Due to Secondary Shell Hits:  39%

% of Total Damage Due to Secondary Shell Hits Inc. Resulting Fires:  50%
Look at that number.  This ship does a huge amount of average damage.  And, on average, HALF of that damage comes from your secondaries.  No other ship comes close to that total.

Secondary Hit Rate: 34%
My full secondary spec Tirpitz averages 24%.  Massachusetts' number is also lower than it would be otherwise because the accuracy of the guns changed my behavior.  I began shooting a lot more at DDs at 10+km because I knew I could get reliable hits.  In Tirpitz, I'd concentrate on targets that were closer because although the secondaries reach out that far, against small targets they weren't very effective at landing hits at that range.  The built in accuracy on Massachusetts is a HUGE game changer.

Average Damage Per Hit:  202
This is a BIG number.   Tirpitz without IFHE averages only 92 damage per secondary hit (total damage/total hits).  This is due to the fact that most of your hits come from the small 105mm secondaries, which have a tough time penetrating.  When you put IFHE on Tirpitz to help out those 105s, the average damage per secondary hit rises to 130.  Much better, but still far short of Massachusetts.

Average Secondary Fires/Game:  2.4
Average Damage Per Secondary Fire:  2807
So IFHE might reduce your secondary fire chance a smidgen, but as your can see, secondary fires don't really do a huge amount of damage normally anyway.  Generally they either get put out, or the ship dies soon anyway, so they don't burn for long.   You can on rare occasions get nice, long burns from your secondaries.  But usually in these cases a BB is just letting it burn, only to turn around and heal it all back, so the tactical advantage it gives you is minimal.   Lesson here:  Worrying about causing more/less fires from your secondaries is not worth it.  Focus on shell damage with IFHE.

(For the math geeks, the small discrepancy between the [fires/game x average/fire] vs. the [average fire damage/game] is because you're multiplying two numbers that have been averaged and comparing it to an average of raw data across all games.)

Conclusions:

  • Massachusetts is the best secondary build boat in the game.
  • Massachusetts is every bit as good as Alabama in terms of overall effectiveness
  • Massachusetts will consistently place in the top 3 on your team when played properly
  • Superintendent is definitely worth it.  I used the full 5 heals almost every game.
  • Massachusetts is a hell of a lot of fun to play
  • I earned my Tier III American emblem for Top 3 wins from Massachusetts during this exercise.  Well on my way to maxing it out.

Subjective Observations:
These are just some notes about how things "felt" to me.

  • I "felt" like I was winning a lot more.  The truth about my sample is, the losses I experienced were due to potato moves on my part (running into an island and getting focus fired) or "incredible melting team" syndrome.  As noted above, I was consistently in the top 3 spots on my team while playing Massachusetts.  Over time, as my occasional early potato moves have less impact on the average, it's possible my W/R in Massachusetts might improve to beat Alabama.  As it stands, losses, regardless of tier, usually come as surprises to me when I'm playing her.
  • There was no ship my tier or lower I had any "fear" of in Massachusetts. . . . and not many above.
  • DDs who came within 10km of my ship, quickly regretted their life choices and rushed to get out of secondary range.  They did not like being the target of those guns!

Next Steps:
I'm going to play around with a couple build variants (One with no IFHE, and one with no Manual) and see if I can tweak the optimum build.  But for right now, the full-spec build is delivering incredible results.

Recommendation:
If you like brawling, BUY THIS SHIP!!!!

 

Mass Build 1.JPG

  • Cool 12

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I'm just waiting for her to be available for purchase for non-Premium time players, especially on Steam. :Smile-_tongue:

Still, nice analysis, BTW.

Edited by Blorgh2017

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I prefer the "MIT on the C" (Charles River) build.  Maximum endurance and secondaries. 

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Superb analysis, thanks much for doing this.  Your data it seems came mainly from Random/Operations battles?   It surprises me frankly that the Mass is so effective there.

I play nearly 100% in coop, and can confirm a couple of points you made in your post.  The first is how surprisingly effective the Mass is against DD's and cruisers.  I do not fear any of them, typically have the destroyers down to 1/3rd health before they can even line up to torp me.  I took some maneuverability flags etc, and can often fairly easily dodge the ones they DO fire before I kill them.

I do still have some anxiety fighting a Tirpitz or an Alabama, and of course another Massachusetts...but premium heals and damage repair parties make a huge difference.  I do not run Superintendent because I run the full secondary Meme Build with IFHE and Manuals.

Like you I don't worry about up-tiering...the Yamato's, GK's, Montanas and Congs are just targets.  A secondary Republique is something to be a little concerned about tho.

Overall love the ship!

And an upvote for the hard work you put into this.

29 minutes ago, TheDreadnought said:

Massachusetts is the best secondary build boat in the game.

Perhaps my new signature :)

 

 

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8 minutes ago, nagasakee said:

Superb analysis, thanks much for doing this.  Your data it seems came mainly from Random/Operations battles?   It surprises me frankly that the Mass is so effective there.

I play nearly 100% in coop, and can confirm a couple of points you made in your post.  The first is how surprisingly effective the Mass is against DD's and cruisers.  I do not fear any of them, typically have the destroyers down to 1/3rd health before they can even line up to torp me.  I took some maneuverability flags etc, and can often fairly easily dodge the ones they DO fire before I kill them.

I do still have some anxiety fighting a Tirpitz or an Alabama, and of course another Massachusetts...but premium heals and damage repair parties make a huge difference.  I do not run Superintendent because I run the full secondary Meme Build with IFHE and Manuals.

Like you I don't worry about up-tiering...the Yamato's, GK's, Montanas and Congs are just targets.  A secondary Republique is something to be a little concerned about tho.

Overall love the ship!

And an upvote for the hard work you put into this.

Perhaps my new signature :)

 

 

My games were entirely solo Randoms.

Thanks!

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23 minutes ago, lemekillmister said:

I prefer the "MIT on the C" (Charles River) build.  Maximum endurance and secondaries. 

Not clear on what you mean.  Can you share the specifics?

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33 minutes ago, TheDreadnought said:

So I did a data capture exercise on Massachusetts to see which build will be best.   I haven't done the alternate builds yet, but I've completed 31 games on what I would consider the "default" build, which is enough for a statistical sample, and will tell us whether the Massachusetts is good, or the trashboat that some claim.   Along the way I'll debunk some other myths. 

Here are the results:

Solo Win Rate:  61% 
Exactly the same as my Alabama actually

Tier Distribution:
Tier 8:     12 (39%)
Tier 9:       8 (26%)
Tier 10:   11 (35%)

So stories about "always" being uptiered at Tier 8 are false.

Average Damage:  96,515 
My poor Alabama, which I run as a brawler is only 67,994.  That difference is entirely due to the effectiveness of the secondaries, as we will see.

Conclusions:

  • Massachusetts is every bit as good as Alabama in terms of overall effectivemsss.
  • Superintendent is definitely worth it.  I used the full 5 heals almost every game.

I left the points in that I wanted to reply to. First I don’t think anyone has ever called the Massachusetts a trash boat. Everyone knows it is really good. As far as win rate goes, this is a good general impression, but it may change especially considering your average games per tier. @Lert did a tier 8 tiering “experiment” with 100 games that seem much more normal to what I’ve had. Only 35% tier 10 games seems like something that will change over time. This also fits in with average damage. Your secondaries are doing a large chunk of your damage which changes some in tier 10 games. Top tier I push straight in while tier 10 I have to be more careful and sit back a little which hurts my damage. 

I think I’m randoms, the Massachusetts is better than the Alabama but I feel that in ranked it will not be that way. I don’t think the heal and secondaries outweighs the accuracy and range if you’re going up against good DD’s in a smaller team setting. 

I personally do not use SI. My experience with the +20% healed flag is by the time I get around to the last heal I will be around 10k health with only 2k to heal. Just not worth it but to each their own. 

Everything else I agree with. Haven’t had time to play it too much but 11 games - 72% WR - 93.2k avg damage and 7 of those games were tier 10. I’ve just gotten really lucky with these CL’s not knowing to run from the secondaries so far. Only thing I hate is seeing a CL broadside about 15km away and only getting overpens. 

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13 minutes ago, Belyy_Klyk said:

First I don’t think anyone has ever called the Massachusetts a trash boat. Everyone knows it is really good. 

Oh, if you cruise the various Massachusetts threads you'll find plenty of detractors.  Notably people who don't actually own her, however.  These people are obviously mistaken.

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Just a few games into the “no manual secondaries” experiment.   It’s not looking good, even though I just picked up a Kraken.   I might be abandoning it early.

I mean... it’s still REALLY good secondaries... just not god-mode.   Lol

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Well done, sir...

Been thinking about springing for the Massachusetts (I visited her in Fall River, wayyyyy back when I was a kid) and was thinking she would be a good addition to my fleet.

It seems to me that most of her detractors are trying to play her just like the Alabama,  your review confirms what I've seen from the CC's on Youtube and other written reviews, that a secondary build is the way to go.

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3 minutes ago, Darksaint1071 said:

Well done, sir...

Been thinking about springing for the Massachusetts (I visited her in Fall River, wayyyyy back when I was a kid) and was thinking she would be a good addition to my fleet.

It seems to me that most of her detractors are trying to play her just like the Alabama,  your review confirms what I've seen from the CC's on Youtube and other written reviews, that a secondary build is the way to go.

or its just possible that captains that really love the Alabama don't want the Massachusetts to be "as gud" or god forbid...better.  That's completely understandable and just human nature, especially if you are from Alabama or bought her yourself.  I like both ships, but my bias (seeing I live like 20 minutes away from her) is with Big Mamie (MAY-mee).  I'm also a secondaries lover, so...

Edited by nagasakee

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Why not take PM over PT?

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15 minutes ago, TheDreadnought said:

Oh, if you cruise the various Massachusetts threads you'll find plenty of detractors.  Notably people who don't actually own her, however.  These people are obviously mistaken.

Tbh I haven’t really looked into them too much because it’ll probably be like every other premium ship. Some people cry OP and get mad. It will be interesting to see if it could work in ranked but I still think I’d take the NC for the accuracy.

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1 minute ago, Belyy_Klyk said:

The main turrets aren’t that bad. 

Doesn't PM help secondary survivability?

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4 minutes ago, dEsTurbed1 said:

Doesn't PM help secondary survivability?

No, only the big stuff.

As mentioned, South Dakota turrets are really tough, so you don’t need PM to help protect them.

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I've played 42 games in Massachusetts. I've been bottom tier in 38 of those games. It's still fun in a game where it's bottom tier. The ship is more than capable as a bottom tier, but the 150k damage results have only happened when I'm top or midtier. Otherwise I'm just sitting here twiddling my thumbs while my my secondaries carry me to my 100k average damage.

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2 minutes ago, Komrade_Rylo said:

I've played 42 games in Massachusetts. I've been bottom tier in 38 of those games. Every other game has been bottom tier. The ship is more than capable as a bottom tier, but the 150k damage results have only happened when I'm top or midtier. Otherwise I'm just sitting here twiddling my thumbs while my my secondaries carry me to my 100k average damage.

You were in Tier 10 games 38 out of 42 games?  That's got to be some kind of record.  LOL

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IMO 31 games may lead to something, but not to claims... When I look back at some of the steamroll matches I had.....
I hope you keep this up when you are above 100 matches.

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12 minutes ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

IMO 31 games may lead to something, but not to claims... When I look back at some of the steamroll matches I had.....
I hope you keep this up when you are above 100 matches.

Statistics 101 says otherwise.  But whatever.

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4 minutes ago, TheDreadnought said:

Statistics 101 says otherwise.  But whatever.

correct.  30 is considered a relevant sample... and to be even more exact 31.

https://www.quora.com/Why-is-30-considered-the-minimum-sample-size-in-some-forms-of-statistical-analysis

Edited by nagasakee
  • Cool 1

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48 minutes ago, dEsTurbed1 said:

Doesn't PM help secondary survivability?

Main guns, Engine and Rudder. Oops and Torpedo tubes.

Edited by Sovereigndawg

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I mean, Massachusetts is cool and all, but I'm not going to let this ship power creep my Bismarck.

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