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Seadog_Supreme

+2/-2 MM is OK.

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I'm ok with the spread. Nations fought with whatever ships they had, so you had WW1 ships in WW2. I can actually top the list with a low-tier ship. Four-stacker DDs fought, Tenryu fought and did well, Katori fought Iowa. It would limit the experience to advantage-me if you were top tier all the time. You had a pretty good spread within formations IRL.

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2 minutes ago, Seadog_Supreme said:

I'm ok with the spread. Nations fought with whatever ships they had, so you had WW1 ships in WW2. I can actually top the list with a low-tier ship. Four-stacker DDs fought, Tenryu fought and did well, Katori fought Iowa. It would limit the experience to advantage-me if you were top tier all the time. You had a pretty good spread within formations IRL.

In general I don't have a problem with it, where my problem is a new stock T8 with a new Captain ending up in a Majority T10 battle. My other issue is being uptiered to T10 when you don't even have a T9 boat yet. And these aren't bought premium boats, but T8's that were earned. If you buy your way into a T8 you get what you get, but if someone is working up the tiers, they should get screwed with the upteir. 

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Many people are not OK with it.

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OK for whom?  The few T10 CPT's that "farm" new T8 all day long?  From what I have played, the past few weeks have been all T8 matches against t9-10's.  A guess: 80% of the time I chose a T8 ship, I play against t9-10's.

WHY?  Because there must be a real shortage of T10/T9 pilots and MM has to fill out there matches with someone and the someones are T8's !  Without T8's, I believe the T-9-10 CPT's would have to wait a long time for a match.

I'm against the +/- 2 concept.  Make it 1 and let me play my T8's in a "balanced" environment.  If that means the T10's can't find a match, so be it.........I've retired all of my T9-10' ships anyway because of the Radar meta because those ships are Non-Value Added because of Radar: I can't make money using them anymore !!!  No in-game value = no play.  WG, I hope you are reading this because a lot of us are opting out of T9-10 play.........and, till the radar meta changes or you introduce missile weapons to counter the radar (SLARM's), we aren't even trying to play-up....  In fact, a lot of very good players are now abandoning upper level play completely and actually playing as far down as they can get without ever seeing radar...

I'm completely against the +/- 2 MM schema.

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Depends on the boat and the individual.  In my case I still don't think a Cleveland has any business being in the same match with Tier X BBs, CAs and CVs regardless of Cpt. Skills.  Range is too short, too slow & armour is too thin.

Yeah, yeah, yeah... I have had good tier X games in it too (sunk a Yamato once) but that is very situational.  You need the right map, the right opposing ships (no CVs to keep you perma spotted) and the right people on the other team (mostly oblivious BB and CL players)

YMMV

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It's only OK for seal clubbers who want to bully stock tier 5s (or tier 8s) in their tier 7 premiums (or tier 10s)

 

It's serviceable but hardly okay and definitely not ideal.

 

The only legitimate complaint about changes to the matchmaking spread is how it would affect the variety of ships in a given match. A problem that solves itself over time as new lines are added.

 

The only other legitimate complaint-- Tier 10-- is also a problem that solves itself over time as more people reach tier 10 in their lines of choice.

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+2/-2 is not always so much of an issue for me, for sure I can manage. But then on rare occasions I have battles that only include 2 tiers and I do see how they seem way more fun for everyone involved in general, it makes me see there's some actual merit to why people want +1/-1

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Whilst I like quicker waiting time for a battle. I think (vs believe) that there are sufficient players online to allow for such mechanism to be enabled.

I doubt that, player base would leave the game due to slightly longer waiting times. This is not an issue, so far. WG you must know this...

 

I do understand that being matched with T10s in your T8s is rather a bitter pill to swallow, since the percentage of being matched with T10's are higher than being matched with the same, or lower. If anything percentages should be equal to being matched with lower tiers vs higher.

 

 

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Sure, you'll feel the pain for running stock ships, but that's a good reason to not run stock ships. I never do any more; I build free XP and credits before jumping into a new ship so I don't have to. When you're new, you will have to run them a bit, but why even have the modules if no one ever runs stock? You can still do OK with less than full upgrades.

13 minutes ago, Asym_KS said:

I've retired all of my T9-10' ships anyway because of the Radar meta because those ships are Non-Value Added because of Radar: I can't make money using them anymore !!!  No in-game value = no play.  WG, I hope you are reading this because a lot of us are opting out of T9-10 play.........and, till the radar meta changes or you introduce missile weapons to counter the radar (SLARM's), we aren't even trying to play-up....  In fact, a lot of very good players are now abandoning upper level play completely and actually playing as far down as they can get without ever seeing radar...

You can run torpedo reload boost instead of smoke. Until cruiserama is over, it might be better. This is what my friend does in the top tiers for now at least with her DDs.

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3 minutes ago, LowSpeed_US said:

I do understand that being matched with T10s in your T8s is rather a bitter pill to swallow, since the percentage of being matched with T10's are higher than being matched with the same, or lower. If anything percentages should be equal to being matched with lower tiers vs higher.

It's not that it happens. It's that it happens so often that proponents of +2/-2 refuse to understand.

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2 minutes ago, KiyoSenkan said:

It's not that it happens. It's that it happens so often that proponents of +2/-2 refuse to understand.

Oh, we know. We just blame WG for the last time they messed with the MM for that, ie the protected MM crap. Not to mention, making T10 too profitable. Both those things create bottlenecks within the MM spread which lead to certain tiers getting screwed over.

Other then that, 2-/+ would be fine, most ships only have around, average, 20% power increase in most areas as you progress.

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Agree, +2/-2 is fine, most ships can do really well in the current MM. And its nice because add variety to the game. The only issue i have with the MM are some of the maps. IMO the MM should base the maps on the botton tier.

 

Its just that many players like to blame the MM for their own failures, for their own poor gameplay. 

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or many players do not have the skill sets to sucessfully compete while down 2 tiers.  Nobody would be hurt by a tighter MM system other than seal clubbers who want to club people who are bottom tier.

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8 minutes ago, Xlap said:

Its just that many players like to blame the MM for their own failures, for their own poor gameplay. 

Human nature. Most of the players don't do AAR on their games to identify what they did wrong, what they did good, and what they could do to improve. Also, a lot of people that play came from WOT, where MM is an issue and power increases between is drastic. (Somewhere around 60% average, for the IS7 line for example.)

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I'll grant you the current MM can be painful to the point of rage-quitting for some, esp. T8 and T5/6.

That said, among my premiums I have the most fun with Prinz Eugen and Kutuzov. I know I'm almost always going to be bottom-tiered, but it makes no difference to my enjoyment. I take sadistic pleasure on the occasions when the good old Tooz burns a T10 to the waterline.

In other words, one person's disadvantage is another person's challenge accepted.

Might as well go with the flow, because WG has repeatedly said MM is just fine as-is.

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7 minutes ago, crzyhawk said:

or many players do not have the skill sets to successfully compete while down 2 tiers.  Nobody would be hurt by a tighter MM system other than seal clubbers who want to club people who are bottom tier.

It wouldn't affect Seal clubbers really. The protected MM has basically made two brackets already. If they wish to seal club, they just load up a overpowered ship in the t4 or t3. Anything above T5 is usually up tiered except T7 at the moment. I'm going to incur @KiyoSenkan wrath by saying "placebo", but switching to a -/+1 MM or a "0" MM won't lead to a decrease or increase of W/R percentages, or really any appreciable changes at all. 

Edited by Cpt_Cupcake
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1 hour ago, crzyhawk said:

Many people are not OK with it.

I have been following these kinds of posts over the past couple of years here. From what I have read and from the polls taken, it is about split half of forum posters for current MM and the other half is against it. There are a few strays who always vote for bacon as well... Anyways if the forum participants represent a good cross section of the players involved in the game, it is an even split. Plus bacon. There is no definitive data to prove that those of us who use the forums are truly representative of the player base as a whole though and not sure how to address it without a game wide survey of players. 

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if it won't hurt the seal clubbers, there's no reason not to make things better for newer players.    They'll certainly have more of a chance in their Omahas, than they do running into my Belfast or Nachi.

 

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17 minutes ago, crzyhawk said:

or many players do not have the skill sets to sucessfully compete while down 2 tiers.  Nobody would be hurt by a tighter MM system other than seal clubbers who want to club people who are bottom tier.

If you dont have the skill to work in +2/-2 you dont have the skill to play in +1/-1 either. The way you play a BB, cruiser or DD is pretty much the same no matter the tier. 

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9 minutes ago, Taylor3006 said:

I have been following these kinds of posts over the past couple of years here. From what I have read and from the polls taken, it is about split half of forum posters for current MM and the other half is against it. There are a few strays who always vote for bacon as well... Anyways if the forum participants represent a good cross section of the players involved in the game, it is an even split. Plus bacon. There is no definitive data to prove that those of us who use the forums are truly representative of the player base as a whole though and not sure how to address it without a game wide survey of players. 

Wg has stated that newer players tend to leave the game around t5.  They are shooting their own recruiting efforts in the foot with their poor MM.  Just because *I* do not have a problem down two, doesn't mean that I think other people have the same experience in T5 ships I do.

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2 minutes ago, Xlap said:

If you dont have the skill to work in +2/-2 you dont have the skill to play in +1/-1 either. The way you play a BB, cruiser or DD is pretty much the same no matter the tier. 

it wouldnt HURT anything, so I am not certain why some of you are so opposed to making things more even for newer folks.  What I mean by I don't know, is really that you just want to keep clubbing people who are two tiers lower.

Edited by crzyhawk
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1 hour ago, Capt_h2o said:

In general I don't have a problem with it, where my problem is a new stock T8 with a new Captain ending up in a Majority T10 battle. My other issue is being uptiered to T10 when you don't even have a T9 boat yet. And these aren't bought premium boats, but T8's that were earned. If you buy your way into a T8 you get what you get, but if someone is working up the tiers, they should get screwed with the upteir. 

That is a problem in every tier except for tier 1. Bottom tier in a tier two with an untrained captain in a stock ship is painful too.

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15 minutes ago, crzyhawk said:

it wouldnt HURT anything, so I am not certain why some of you are so opposed to making things more even for newer folks.  What I mean by I don't know, is really that you just want to keep clubbing people who are two tiers lower.

If we had a skill based MM i would agree with you. But with the current MM, player skill > ship type. If the player is willing to learn he will do it. I see many new players playing better than many veterans. 

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1 hour ago, Capt_h2o said:

In general I don't have a problem with it, where my problem is a new stock T8 with a new Captain ending up in a Majority T10 battle. My other issue is being uptiered to T10 when you don't even have a T9 boat yet. And these aren't bought premium boats, but T8's that were earned. If you buy your way into a T8 you get what you get, but if someone is working up the tiers, they should get screwed with the upteir. 

I think you meant "shouldn't get screwed", but I am in general agreement. I am in particular agreement with the part I put in bold when it is the player's first T8 ship. By the time they've worked a few up, the're savvy enough to get the most out of it and it isn't so bad, but I feel most sorry of all for anyone who got the Cleveland just before it was uptiered as their very first tier SIX ship. They are effectively Tier 5 players in a Tier 10 meta.

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23 minutes ago, crzyhawk said:

if it won't hurt the seal clubbers, there's no reason not to make things better for newer players.    They'll certainly have more of a chance in their Omahas, than they do running into my Belfast or Nachi.

 

1.) It won't.

2.) It might drive away veteran players. I personally like the challenge of being bottom tier, keeps it fresh.

21 minutes ago, crzyhawk said:

it wouldnt HURT anything, so I am not certain why some of you are so opposed to making things more even for newer folks.  What I mean by I don't know, is really that you just want to keep clubbing people who are two tiers lower.

3.) Get over yourself, and stop projecting you suspicions. If people want to seal club, they're not gonna to place their bets on the MM.... They're going to load up a OP ship, like Kami, Belfast, Nikolai, Ark B, V-170, etc etc.

Edited by Cpt_Cupcake
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